The Second Life Herald is reporting on problems in Linden Labs’ Second Life with child porn due to allowing anonymous users to come in there (a credit card used to be required).
I haven’t been back to Second Life since Gnomedex last year because I can’t bring my son into there (the rules don’t allow it, for one, and for two they allow the worst kind of human behavior on their system). I wish it were different, cause it had a lot of promise and my son really loved being in there building stuff. And don’t tell me about the teen grid. Patrick checked that out and promptly labeled it as “lame” when compared with the adult version. Also, the fun thing we’d do is work on our virtual office together. If he’s in the teen grid we couldn’t do that.
Anyway, these issues are yet to be worked out it seems. I talked with an executive with a big multinational company over the weekend who had a successful Second Life island and he told me they are considering pulling out of Second Life. Mostly because they couldn’t get more than about 65 people into their island, which limited its usefulness to do things like press conferences and such.
UPDATE: Project Open Letter has a letter to Linden Labs about ongoing stability problems. Seems that the natives are unhappy with Linden Labs. Anything else going on? I wonder what Eric Rice thinks about all this.
Oh, and I’m still paying my monthly fee cause I’m too lazy to call them and cancel my account.
Scobleizer 
Limited assistance to a press conference on an insland in a 3d world becomes a problem? Oh my! 🙂
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Limited assistance to a press conference on an insland in a 3d world becomes a problem? Oh my! 🙂
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There are a few things going on:
1. The open letter of angry residents didn’t seem to get any responses that had been heard before. (Also, Linden needs help business blogging– turning off comments randomly is not cool. Residents are pissed.)
2. The age-verification thing is terrifying to almost an EFF level. Linden Lab is sending the verification thing outside to a company run by Aristotle.com. SL’s oldest tabloid, the Herald, did some awesome digging into it. This ain’t your typical ‘ohnoes email spam sharing’ thing. And, with 50% of the users being non-American? Eesh.
3. I’m against the age verification thing like I’m against the separate grids– but that’s an issue that is so deep beyond the politically correct ‘save the children’ campaigns which is a) a real concern and b) a political strawman (who is gonna disagree with protecting little Bobby? Exactly. it’s easy win). Hasn’t research been done showing that it’s not the ‘adult content’ but predatory behavior that’s the problem online, SL or otherwise? The implementation is a technological and administrivial nightmare. Just wow.
And for the teens that are on the main grid (even people like our dearly departed jmalthus, who was a code and social media prodigy in the making), they aren’t actually sitting back and laughing at the idiot grownups having cartoon sex? It’s an American thing. It appeals to our fat asses in our SUVs. Seriously. You can market and PR to it and make money off it with your eyes closed.
4. I’m always amused at the stories of sex in SL regardless of its seriousness or grossness– the horrible pedophilia thing being an example– since the place is so free-money driven and dance-clubbish. Sex sells and atrocious sex stories sell even more. No, not suprised at all that it exists. So it makes perfect sense that Linden Lab has to regulate– pushing them further and further away from being a common carrier.
I want my own SL server software, because at the end of the day, for ME, it’s Twitter 3D. I can make things in 3D and my friends hang (you know, the real ones). This is of course, uninteresting to the standard textbook driven idiot trolls (See: “I dont have time for a first life” or “I don’t Get It” or “More like Get a Life” hurrrr, it’s funny the first 1000 times, kthxbye, you are no longer clever, digg’rs)
Will all of this proceed? Probably. Interestingly, as SL is the only dog on the block, far far ahead of its many existing and up and coming competitors, people are kind of locked in, like all good social media services are. This kind of thing would never fly on Twitter, WordPress, Flickr or pick-your-rounded-cornr site du jour.
But hey, at the end of the day, we learned new things, continued to network, and continued to tackle the barriers of ‘no son, you aren’t allowed to try and build video games.’
The hell I say! 🙂
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There are a few things going on:
1. The open letter of angry residents didn’t seem to get any responses that had been heard before. (Also, Linden needs help business blogging– turning off comments randomly is not cool. Residents are pissed.)
2. The age-verification thing is terrifying to almost an EFF level. Linden Lab is sending the verification thing outside to a company run by Aristotle.com. SL’s oldest tabloid, the Herald, did some awesome digging into it. This ain’t your typical ‘ohnoes email spam sharing’ thing. And, with 50% of the users being non-American? Eesh.
3. I’m against the age verification thing like I’m against the separate grids– but that’s an issue that is so deep beyond the politically correct ‘save the children’ campaigns which is a) a real concern and b) a political strawman (who is gonna disagree with protecting little Bobby? Exactly. it’s easy win). Hasn’t research been done showing that it’s not the ‘adult content’ but predatory behavior that’s the problem online, SL or otherwise? The implementation is a technological and administrivial nightmare. Just wow.
And for the teens that are on the main grid (even people like our dearly departed jmalthus, who was a code and social media prodigy in the making), they aren’t actually sitting back and laughing at the idiot grownups having cartoon sex? It’s an American thing. It appeals to our fat asses in our SUVs. Seriously. You can market and PR to it and make money off it with your eyes closed.
4. I’m always amused at the stories of sex in SL regardless of its seriousness or grossness– the horrible pedophilia thing being an example– since the place is so free-money driven and dance-clubbish. Sex sells and atrocious sex stories sell even more. No, not suprised at all that it exists. So it makes perfect sense that Linden Lab has to regulate– pushing them further and further away from being a common carrier.
I want my own SL server software, because at the end of the day, for ME, it’s Twitter 3D. I can make things in 3D and my friends hang (you know, the real ones). This is of course, uninteresting to the standard textbook driven idiot trolls (See: “I dont have time for a first life” or “I don’t Get It” or “More like Get a Life” hurrrr, it’s funny the first 1000 times, kthxbye, you are no longer clever, digg’rs)
Will all of this proceed? Probably. Interestingly, as SL is the only dog on the block, far far ahead of its many existing and up and coming competitors, people are kind of locked in, like all good social media services are. This kind of thing would never fly on Twitter, WordPress, Flickr or pick-your-rounded-cornr site du jour.
But hey, at the end of the day, we learned new things, continued to network, and continued to tackle the barriers of ‘no son, you aren’t allowed to try and build video games.’
The hell I say! 🙂
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So if you had a virtual world that played by the twitter rules (opt in friendships only) how cool would that be. No need to protect because griefers and perverts would have trouble finding friends outside of their circles
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So if you had a virtual world that played by the twitter rules (opt in friendships only) how cool would that be. No need to protect because griefers and perverts would have trouble finding friends outside of their circles
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they allow the worst kind of human behavior on their system
This sums it all up, Mr. Scoble.
The community and LL itself created an enabling environment for things like child porn because of this really deep-seated licentious anarchic attitude that is so aggressive it forgets even to be a good neighbour, and to ensure protection of all rights for all, not just whoever is the most aggressive, can pay the most, and grief the most.
Eric’s concept that the issue is really only predatory behaviour loses sight of the fact that the laissez-faire attitude toward extremes of behaviour in Gorean, BDSM, ageplay, etc. sims in fact creates the enabling environment that gives the predator the greenlight. I’m not at all convinced that even the so-called consesual adults are really of sound mind and free will, given that they are often people themselves damaged by abuse who become prey to predators. I’ve seen a LOT of this among my many customers.
The solution isn’t to ban adults and ban their behaviour, but the Lindens are right to begin to put the onus for allowing and encouraging even extreme behaviours must fall on the sim renter/owner. They have to take responsibility for doing online what they couldn’t get away with in real life in their own community, and if they want to do it that way, they can’t go on being infantile and making LL take the rap for their lifestyle choices.
If you don’t have community standards, where/how will the norms of decency be set?
I also think it’s inaccurate to say “The Herald dug on this”. The Herald did no such thing. The Herald published a few rapid stories about this with even more rabid comments, in which many people became very paranoid and surly in that collectivist way that people get online roiling against “the Man”. There was all this nonsense put out about lists being sold with personal information, even though once the Lindens were contacted, they explained that their deal with the list company is that it does not resell the information. If there is some scandal regarding the sale of voter lists in US states where it is not legal, well…the very presence of a scandal shows you how citizens fight back in the American system, and people don’t have to be so hysterical about somehow being abused by this company — that in fact they only have to voluntarily submit data to if they wish to use explicit adult sites in SL.
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they allow the worst kind of human behavior on their system
This sums it all up, Mr. Scoble.
The community and LL itself created an enabling environment for things like child porn because of this really deep-seated licentious anarchic attitude that is so aggressive it forgets even to be a good neighbour, and to ensure protection of all rights for all, not just whoever is the most aggressive, can pay the most, and grief the most.
Eric’s concept that the issue is really only predatory behaviour loses sight of the fact that the laissez-faire attitude toward extremes of behaviour in Gorean, BDSM, ageplay, etc. sims in fact creates the enabling environment that gives the predator the greenlight. I’m not at all convinced that even the so-called consesual adults are really of sound mind and free will, given that they are often people themselves damaged by abuse who become prey to predators. I’ve seen a LOT of this among my many customers.
The solution isn’t to ban adults and ban their behaviour, but the Lindens are right to begin to put the onus for allowing and encouraging even extreme behaviours must fall on the sim renter/owner. They have to take responsibility for doing online what they couldn’t get away with in real life in their own community, and if they want to do it that way, they can’t go on being infantile and making LL take the rap for their lifestyle choices.
If you don’t have community standards, where/how will the norms of decency be set?
I also think it’s inaccurate to say “The Herald dug on this”. The Herald did no such thing. The Herald published a few rapid stories about this with even more rabid comments, in which many people became very paranoid and surly in that collectivist way that people get online roiling against “the Man”. There was all this nonsense put out about lists being sold with personal information, even though once the Lindens were contacted, they explained that their deal with the list company is that it does not resell the information. If there is some scandal regarding the sale of voter lists in US states where it is not legal, well…the very presence of a scandal shows you how citizens fight back in the American system, and people don’t have to be so hysterical about somehow being abused by this company — that in fact they only have to voluntarily submit data to if they wish to use explicit adult sites in SL.
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Prokofy, I question the issue of ‘laissez-faire’ in the internet era. Do you regulate or do you not regulate? Do you take a hands-off approach to data or do you monitor it all and take liability.
(this does kinda circle around to the Kathy Sierra/deceny in blogs/should comments and chats be 100% moderated, etc)
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Prokofy, I question the issue of ‘laissez-faire’ in the internet era. Do you regulate or do you not regulate? Do you take a hands-off approach to data or do you monitor it all and take liability.
(this does kinda circle around to the Kathy Sierra/deceny in blogs/should comments and chats be 100% moderated, etc)
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The Herald did some “digging into it” by Googling (great journalism, guys) but didn’t actually bother to talk to either LL or Aristotle. Evidently their phones have been cut off or something. Because if they had done the digging properly, they’d have found that Integrity, the company which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Aristotle, is contractually prevented from passing on data to its parent company. LL have said that if they ever do pass on this data, they will take legal action.
“I’m not at all convinced that even the so-called consesual adults are really of sound mind and free will, given that they are often people themselves damaged by abuse who become prey to predators.”
As usual, you speak from precisely zero knowledge of the subject, Prokofy. Of course, it’s also entirely in tune with your desire to police SL yourself – your Stalinism is showing, again!
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The Herald did some “digging into it” by Googling (great journalism, guys) but didn’t actually bother to talk to either LL or Aristotle. Evidently their phones have been cut off or something. Because if they had done the digging properly, they’d have found that Integrity, the company which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Aristotle, is contractually prevented from passing on data to its parent company. LL have said that if they ever do pass on this data, they will take legal action.
“I’m not at all convinced that even the so-called consesual adults are really of sound mind and free will, given that they are often people themselves damaged by abuse who become prey to predators.”
As usual, you speak from precisely zero knowledge of the subject, Prokofy. Of course, it’s also entirely in tune with your desire to police SL yourself – your Stalinism is showing, again!
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Secondlife Sucks right now and it is getting worse not better. Now land owners are responsible for what goes on in their land and unlike comments on a blog where all comments are logged along with ips address etc, there is no record what has gone on inside the land without the owners being there watching or policing their land.
So for instance if you have age players on your land without you being there and if they are soliciting sex in your club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner are there to ban them or boot thier asses then cause land owners are responisble for what goes on in their land that technically it would be also their responsiblilty and could also make then an accessory or something in germany where age play or virtual child pornography is illegal, if this is what the sl world is going on like.
You cant automaticlly ban avatars under 4ft tall via scripting to my knowledge and no one can be there to police their land 24-7. It is not possible for one person to watch their land to make sure all is above board.
With comments in wordpress, i can block new commenters and approve them. I can see their ip addresses (yeah can be spoofed) and email. which means if i dont like what they have written and posted i can personally moderated it and if nescessary can remove it.
But u cant in secondlife. It is all user generated content and unfortuntly you are gonna sick, twiseted, horrible scum of the earth people who do do virtual sick twisted things. you cannot police it 24-7 and you cannot ban new people who might cause problems before they enter your land etc etc etc.
If the onus is on us then we are screwed as land owners.
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Secondlife Sucks right now and it is getting worse not better. Now land owners are responsible for what goes on in their land and unlike comments on a blog where all comments are logged along with ips address etc, there is no record what has gone on inside the land without the owners being there watching or policing their land.
So for instance if you have age players on your land without you being there and if they are soliciting sex in your club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner are there to ban them or boot thier asses then cause land owners are responisble for what goes on in their land that technically it would be also their responsiblilty and could also make then an accessory or something in germany where age play or virtual child pornography is illegal, if this is what the sl world is going on like.
You cant automaticlly ban avatars under 4ft tall via scripting to my knowledge and no one can be there to police their land 24-7. It is not possible for one person to watch their land to make sure all is above board.
With comments in wordpress, i can block new commenters and approve them. I can see their ip addresses (yeah can be spoofed) and email. which means if i dont like what they have written and posted i can personally moderated it and if nescessary can remove it.
But u cant in secondlife. It is all user generated content and unfortuntly you are gonna sick, twiseted, horrible scum of the earth people who do do virtual sick twisted things. you cannot police it 24-7 and you cannot ban new people who might cause problems before they enter your land etc etc etc.
If the onus is on us then we are screwed as land owners.
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Correction i mean ban people in a public place that has to be open access to all.
“club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner are there to ban” is supposed to read “club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner aren’t there to ban”
Also my apolgies about ranting 😦 Didnt mean to do it but feelings are stong on this one.
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Correction i mean ban people in a public place that has to be open access to all.
“club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner are there to ban” is supposed to read “club/mall/shop/public place and you the owner aren’t there to ban”
Also my apolgies about ranting 😦 Didnt mean to do it but feelings are stong on this one.
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The whole Internet is anonymous and it is the #1 channel for islamist terrorist ideolgy (note that Al-Qaida could never have operated like they do – independent cells all over the world – without the internet), child porn, bestiality, dangerous religious sects… and yet SL is the bad apple? I don’t think so. SL is a victim of it’s own hype. I can (but won’t) list hard porn sites, based in the US, which do not verify or even warn visitors of their content (which does not evolve around avatars but real people and animals).
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The whole Internet is anonymous and it is the #1 channel for islamist terrorist ideolgy (note that Al-Qaida could never have operated like they do – independent cells all over the world – without the internet), child porn, bestiality, dangerous religious sects… and yet SL is the bad apple? I don’t think so. SL is a victim of it’s own hype. I can (but won’t) list hard porn sites, based in the US, which do not verify or even warn visitors of their content (which does not evolve around avatars but real people and animals).
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Wait, wait…so Second LIFE is supposed to be a virtual version of real life, and people are surprised that it’s including the warts?
BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
Oh dear me, I do SO love that look on people’s faces when their denial is finally stripped away. It warms the cockles of my acid-pumping heart.
But this one, this is especially precious:
If you don’t have community standards, where/how will the norms of decency be set?
Whose community?
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Wait, wait…so Second LIFE is supposed to be a virtual version of real life, and people are surprised that it’s including the warts?
BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
Oh dear me, I do SO love that look on people’s faces when their denial is finally stripped away. It warms the cockles of my acid-pumping heart.
But this one, this is especially precious:
If you don’t have community standards, where/how will the norms of decency be set?
Whose community?
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The Herald did some “digging into it” by Googling (great journalism, guys) but didn’t actually bother to talk to either LL or Aristotle. Evidently their phones have been cut off or something. Because if they had done the digging properly, they’d have found that Integrity, the company which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Aristotle, is contractually prevented from passing on data to its parent company. LL have said that if they ever do pass on this data, they will take legal action.
Oh Ian, you and your old, kludgy “mainstream media” ways. Don’t you remember? This is the brave new world of “Blogosphere Journalism”! They have no time for any research that isn’t in the top ten hits from their only Google search!
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The Herald did some “digging into it” by Googling (great journalism, guys) but didn’t actually bother to talk to either LL or Aristotle. Evidently their phones have been cut off or something. Because if they had done the digging properly, they’d have found that Integrity, the company which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Aristotle, is contractually prevented from passing on data to its parent company. LL have said that if they ever do pass on this data, they will take legal action.
Oh Ian, you and your old, kludgy “mainstream media” ways. Don’t you remember? This is the brave new world of “Blogosphere Journalism”! They have no time for any research that isn’t in the top ten hits from their only Google search!
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http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ps3+home&search=Search
Scoble, we don’t NEED 2nd life anymore. The PS3 @home is secure, it’s registered, and it’s better.
You mean to tell me that with all your pull in Silicon valley, Sony won’t let you be a beta tester for @home???
That would solve all your problems for both you and your kids right there. There’s no software to install and it’s automatic.
Why are you still dicking around with 2nd life?
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/26/playstation-3-home-beta-invites-sent-out-we-didnt-get-one-eith/
Use your pull and get a beta invite big guy.
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http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ps3+home&search=Search
Scoble, we don’t NEED 2nd life anymore. The PS3 @home is secure, it’s registered, and it’s better.
You mean to tell me that with all your pull in Silicon valley, Sony won’t let you be a beta tester for @home???
That would solve all your problems for both you and your kids right there. There’s no software to install and it’s automatic.
Why are you still dicking around with 2nd life?
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/26/playstation-3-home-beta-invites-sent-out-we-didnt-get-one-eith/
Use your pull and get a beta invite big guy.
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I know how painful it can be to call in to cancel an account (why is it so easy to sign up for some online accounts but almost impossible to cancel?). But for $10/month you could save the lives of 24 people per year by donating to Malaria No More:
http://www.malarianomore.org/about.php
Or I’m sure there are many other charities that could use the $10/month to do good work. Regardless, the hour you spend on the phone will be well worth the effort.
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I know how painful it can be to call in to cancel an account (why is it so easy to sign up for some online accounts but almost impossible to cancel?). But for $10/month you could save the lives of 24 people per year by donating to Malaria No More:
http://www.malarianomore.org/about.php
Or I’m sure there are many other charities that could use the $10/month to do good work. Regardless, the hour you spend on the phone will be well worth the effort.
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You should take the money you are paying them and use it for a good cause like the autisim foundation which you were talking about previously
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You should take the money you are paying them and use it for a good cause like the autisim foundation which you were talking about previously
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I think Second Life, like any other social online environment (whether for gaming or not), will always be hit with things such as porn. Why people will go to the trouble to pay and upload photos, and create things (using up valuable prims) and such to display such horrible images.. I’ll never understand.
I love the freedom of expression SL provides their residents, and I love the ability to meet up with other people in a more “real” way than just IM.
But there will always be a downside. I’ve never been in Teen Grid (for the obvious reason that I’m 6 years past being a teen), so I can’t comment on that world.
But working with higher education and possibly moving into SL.. I think there is tons of potential. That being said, I don’t venture outside of the Campus Region. I guess in a way.. you kinda pick your battles.
Kinda like choosing to open or delete an spam email that might have porn in it. Wrong click and Wham!
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I think Second Life, like any other social online environment (whether for gaming or not), will always be hit with things such as porn. Why people will go to the trouble to pay and upload photos, and create things (using up valuable prims) and such to display such horrible images.. I’ll never understand.
I love the freedom of expression SL provides their residents, and I love the ability to meet up with other people in a more “real” way than just IM.
But there will always be a downside. I’ve never been in Teen Grid (for the obvious reason that I’m 6 years past being a teen), so I can’t comment on that world.
But working with higher education and possibly moving into SL.. I think there is tons of potential. That being said, I don’t venture outside of the Campus Region. I guess in a way.. you kinda pick your battles.
Kinda like choosing to open or delete an spam email that might have porn in it. Wrong click and Wham!
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I actually did call and left messages for them to cancel our account and have yet to hear back from them. I was put on hold for ten minutes, then sent to a voice mail which asked me to repeat the answer to every question twice and then they never called me back. That was a month ago. I don’t know about their moral issues since I have never been on the site, but their Customer Service sucks.
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I actually did call and left messages for them to cancel our account and have yet to hear back from them. I was put on hold for ten minutes, then sent to a voice mail which asked me to repeat the answer to every question twice and then they never called me back. That was a month ago. I don’t know about their moral issues since I have never been on the site, but their Customer Service sucks.
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I watched the German TV report about child porn in SL, and I think it is really disgusting what some people are doing in SL. In wonder what effect this will have on companies planing a presence in SL.
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I watched the German TV report about child porn in SL, and I think it is really disgusting what some people are doing in SL. In wonder what effect this will have on companies planing a presence in SL.
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I think Second Life, like any other social online environment (whether for gaming or not), will always be hit with things such as porn. Why people will go to the trouble to pay and upload photos, and create things (using up valuable prims) and such to display such horrible images.. I’ll never understand.
Because to a lot of people, porn isn’t horrible. Hell, defining porn is tricky.
I actually did call and left messages for them to cancel our account and have yet to hear back from them. I was put on hold for ten minutes, then sent to a voice mail which asked me to repeat the answer to every question twice and then they never called me back. That was a month ago. I don’t know about their moral issues since I have never been on the site, but their Customer Service sucks
Shit, that’s nothing. Ever try to get Columbia House to stop taking money out of your account AFTER you’ve dropped them? Second Life is practically giving you a handjob compared to the shysters of Terra Haute.
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I think Second Life, like any other social online environment (whether for gaming or not), will always be hit with things such as porn. Why people will go to the trouble to pay and upload photos, and create things (using up valuable prims) and such to display such horrible images.. I’ll never understand.
Because to a lot of people, porn isn’t horrible. Hell, defining porn is tricky.
I actually did call and left messages for them to cancel our account and have yet to hear back from them. I was put on hold for ten minutes, then sent to a voice mail which asked me to repeat the answer to every question twice and then they never called me back. That was a month ago. I don’t know about their moral issues since I have never been on the site, but their Customer Service sucks
Shit, that’s nothing. Ever try to get Columbia House to stop taking money out of your account AFTER you’ve dropped them? Second Life is practically giving you a handjob compared to the shysters of Terra Haute.
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I wish I could afford to pay monthly fees for things I don’t use.
Well, at least it’ll be cancelled for you automatically when your credit card expires right?
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I wish I could afford to pay monthly fees for things I don’t use.
Well, at least it’ll be cancelled for you automatically when your credit card expires right?
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“Oh, and I’m still paying my monthly fee cause I’m too lazy to call them and cancel my account.”
Xbox Live made me do the same thing back in the XBox 1 days, and MSN made me do the same thing. If they don’t like the reason you are canceling the account for they give you a bunch of crap about it.
Now I have PS3(I’ve had PS1 and 2 as well), and Sony lets me do anything I want without calling them and has @home which is 10 billion times better than 2nd life. It also has the folding@home app that lets me help fight cancer.
In short, drop these services and go with Sony. You’ll be glad you did. They don’t half ass anything. PS3 has been top of the line service-wise. You can’t lose with it.
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“Oh, and I’m still paying my monthly fee cause I’m too lazy to call them and cancel my account.”
Xbox Live made me do the same thing back in the XBox 1 days, and MSN made me do the same thing. If they don’t like the reason you are canceling the account for they give you a bunch of crap about it.
Now I have PS3(I’ve had PS1 and 2 as well), and Sony lets me do anything I want without calling them and has @home which is 10 billion times better than 2nd life. It also has the folding@home app that lets me help fight cancer.
In short, drop these services and go with Sony. You’ll be glad you did. They don’t half ass anything. PS3 has been top of the line service-wise. You can’t lose with it.
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People seem to be looking at this issue as if it were isolated, and in a fish bowl.
Don’t forget, this is an “Adult” site. It’s not an ‘all-ages disney-esque’ there.com nor a heavily moderated family forum.
Think internet, only in 3D. The net has porn, some you may like, some you may not. The internet has crime, which will continue to plague it and be prosecuted.
Same darn thing with SL. Trying to ban (fantasy in many cases) ideologies and virtual lifestyles like BDSM, Gor, and the like is not only impossible on the net at large (or for an adult user-driven content modeled system), but also pretty ridiculous for a company that touts teledildonics advancements as part of the opportunities for outside companies investing in the ‘Adult’ grid.
RL pedophelia and abuse of children: Illegal, enforce the law as always, whether it’s conducted or disseminated in SL or not. That doesn’t mean you wipe out every little sexual concept that you don’t happen to enjoy personally.
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People seem to be looking at this issue as if it were isolated, and in a fish bowl.
Don’t forget, this is an “Adult” site. It’s not an ‘all-ages disney-esque’ there.com nor a heavily moderated family forum.
Think internet, only in 3D. The net has porn, some you may like, some you may not. The internet has crime, which will continue to plague it and be prosecuted.
Same darn thing with SL. Trying to ban (fantasy in many cases) ideologies and virtual lifestyles like BDSM, Gor, and the like is not only impossible on the net at large (or for an adult user-driven content modeled system), but also pretty ridiculous for a company that touts teledildonics advancements as part of the opportunities for outside companies investing in the ‘Adult’ grid.
RL pedophelia and abuse of children: Illegal, enforce the law as always, whether it’s conducted or disseminated in SL or not. That doesn’t mean you wipe out every little sexual concept that you don’t happen to enjoy personally.
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Does any of this really surprise us? Wasn’t this pretty much predictable? Second Life seems to be a online version of Deadwood
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Does any of this really surprise us? Wasn’t this pretty much predictable? Second Life seems to be a online version of Deadwood
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RL pedophelia and abuse of children: Illegal, enforce the law as always, whether it’s conducted or disseminated in SL or not.
Define a global version of “child porn”. I’m not just devil’s advocating here either. If you’re talking about *global* definitions, you’re going to find that things we start lookin’ for lynchin’ trees here for are not illegal in other places. The intelligent answer is “whereever the company and the servers are is the basis for the law”, but when you’re dealing with a global population, you cannot assume that we define everything the same.
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RL pedophelia and abuse of children: Illegal, enforce the law as always, whether it’s conducted or disseminated in SL or not.
Define a global version of “child porn”. I’m not just devil’s advocating here either. If you’re talking about *global* definitions, you’re going to find that things we start lookin’ for lynchin’ trees here for are not illegal in other places. The intelligent answer is “whereever the company and the servers are is the basis for the law”, but when you’re dealing with a global population, you cannot assume that we define everything the same.
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I was an early Beta user of SL and had the chance to telecon with LL when early decisions were being made. One of the very first issues I had with the technology was how server-centric it was. I asked repeatedly had anyone done a “back of the envelope” calculation regarding how the thing would scale. I never got an answer other than dead silence (and subsequently wasn’t invited to participate), but clearly the answer is “no”, and they’ve been promising to address the scaling issue every since. The problem of course is that the issue is built into the design. Coding more efficiently won’t fix it, and a fix, short of replacing the country’s infrastructure, will require rollbacks in features related to near-real-time interactions between users.
On the plus side, LL has been very good about keeping their promises, even if belatedly. OS X and Linux support was one of those early promises, and finally I can run SL on an unmodified Debian installation. It was supposed to happen a lot sooner, but I think it was an honest underestimate of the technological hurdles, and the fact that I’m running the latest Debian probably has as much to do with it working as anything else.
They hinted from the outset about SL being an “open” system, and they have (I think) already released the client code and have promised to do the same with the server code. It has in fact begun to be more open than we would have ever thought. Some of the early investors in SL are well known FOSS types, by the way.
This last is VERY significant with respect to the issue you’ve raised as it allows anyone with a special requirement to take the product in a different direction. In theory, those who want porn could have their own version of SL on their own servers. If someone in France wants a French language only version, they could do that too.
Does that put LL out of business? No. In fact it MAKES the existing business more viable. By more narrowly specifying the types of activities that can take place in the official LL version of the product, that support, system monitoring, conflict resolution and so on that is so thinly stretched at the moment become the core element of the product and the Gee-Whiz aspect of the technology (which is no longer new) becomes secondary.
Another idea I had back when they came up with the teen grid was that what they really needed was a FAMILY grid, and a non-family grid, with the former being more closely monitored and the latter being only checked for outright illegal activity. I’m quite certain that that is what they will end up with. Sometimes my great ideas take a while to gel for you common folk. 🙂
If the Scobles have any additional funds they don’t need I’ll be happy to put them to good use. My definition of good of course.
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I was an early Beta user of SL and had the chance to telecon with LL when early decisions were being made. One of the very first issues I had with the technology was how server-centric it was. I asked repeatedly had anyone done a “back of the envelope” calculation regarding how the thing would scale. I never got an answer other than dead silence (and subsequently wasn’t invited to participate), but clearly the answer is “no”, and they’ve been promising to address the scaling issue every since. The problem of course is that the issue is built into the design. Coding more efficiently won’t fix it, and a fix, short of replacing the country’s infrastructure, will require rollbacks in features related to near-real-time interactions between users.
On the plus side, LL has been very good about keeping their promises, even if belatedly. OS X and Linux support was one of those early promises, and finally I can run SL on an unmodified Debian installation. It was supposed to happen a lot sooner, but I think it was an honest underestimate of the technological hurdles, and the fact that I’m running the latest Debian probably has as much to do with it working as anything else.
They hinted from the outset about SL being an “open” system, and they have (I think) already released the client code and have promised to do the same with the server code. It has in fact begun to be more open than we would have ever thought. Some of the early investors in SL are well known FOSS types, by the way.
This last is VERY significant with respect to the issue you’ve raised as it allows anyone with a special requirement to take the product in a different direction. In theory, those who want porn could have their own version of SL on their own servers. If someone in France wants a French language only version, they could do that too.
Does that put LL out of business? No. In fact it MAKES the existing business more viable. By more narrowly specifying the types of activities that can take place in the official LL version of the product, that support, system monitoring, conflict resolution and so on that is so thinly stretched at the moment become the core element of the product and the Gee-Whiz aspect of the technology (which is no longer new) becomes secondary.
Another idea I had back when they came up with the teen grid was that what they really needed was a FAMILY grid, and a non-family grid, with the former being more closely monitored and the latter being only checked for outright illegal activity. I’m quite certain that that is what they will end up with. Sometimes my great ideas take a while to gel for you common folk. 🙂
If the Scobles have any additional funds they don’t need I’ll be happy to put them to good use. My definition of good of course.
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I left SL a few months ago. But for one i know one thing. They will never and cant get rid of kids on the adult grid. Its not possible. Kid’s are almost starting to type as well or better than Adults on the grid. And not all kids go in SL for the “porn” factor. Like you mentioned in your post many go there because of the lack of content in the Teen grid.
P.S, Go into your SL Account and select “Upgrade and Downgrade account” and just downgrade to a Basic account to stop that 9.99 monthly fee 😉 You dont have to call them. Or you can delete the account all together.
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I left SL a few months ago. But for one i know one thing. They will never and cant get rid of kids on the adult grid. Its not possible. Kid’s are almost starting to type as well or better than Adults on the grid. And not all kids go in SL for the “porn” factor. Like you mentioned in your post many go there because of the lack of content in the Teen grid.
P.S, Go into your SL Account and select “Upgrade and Downgrade account” and just downgrade to a Basic account to stop that 9.99 monthly fee 😉 You dont have to call them. Or you can delete the account all together.
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The real question is, will anybody be using 2nd life anymore when @home is out of beta and in the next PS3 update?
Why use 2nd life when there’s a nicer, cleaner, and better version right on your TV screen with no extra software updates or fees?
Why?
I think it’s strange that even with all the pull Scoble supposedly has he couldn’t get an @home invite from Sony to be a beta tester.
That would have seemed like the ideal solution for a family setting?
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The real question is, will anybody be using 2nd life anymore when @home is out of beta and in the next PS3 update?
Why use 2nd life when there’s a nicer, cleaner, and better version right on your TV screen with no extra software updates or fees?
Why?
I think it’s strange that even with all the pull Scoble supposedly has he couldn’t get an @home invite from Sony to be a beta tester.
That would have seemed like the ideal solution for a family setting?
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@29:
They may be skiddish about using a recent Microsoftie as a Beta tester.
From the video I saw, and things I’ve read about @home, I don’t think it will measure up to SecondLife. It looks more like something with pre-fabricated common areas where you can meet people and select online (multi-player) games to play, and then you will have your own little “apartment” to keep your stuff in.
Nothing wrong with all that, and for people with a PS3 and the desire to use it, it will certainly be a cool thing. But I don’t see it as a full replacement for SL, where you can do your own scripting, build larger structures, etc.
Never can tell, one of these days, Sony or Microsoft may decide to make SL an extension of their online systems.
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@29:
They may be skiddish about using a recent Microsoftie as a Beta tester.
From the video I saw, and things I’ve read about @home, I don’t think it will measure up to SecondLife. It looks more like something with pre-fabricated common areas where you can meet people and select online (multi-player) games to play, and then you will have your own little “apartment” to keep your stuff in.
Nothing wrong with all that, and for people with a PS3 and the desire to use it, it will certainly be a cool thing. But I don’t see it as a full replacement for SL, where you can do your own scripting, build larger structures, etc.
Never can tell, one of these days, Sony or Microsoft may decide to make SL an extension of their online systems.
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@30, you can make your own stuff in @home.
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@30, you can make your own stuff in @home.
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@12: “That would solve all your problems for both you and your kids right there.”
Except that @Home is over 18’s only.
Any problems with age verification that LL has encountered will also be encountered by Sony.
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@12: “That would solve all your problems for both you and your kids right there.”
Except that @Home is over 18’s only.
Any problems with age verification that LL has encountered will also be encountered by Sony.
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The anti-pedo crusaders are surely playing a large role in all of this. Age verification has now become mandatory for anyone SL targets for whatever reason they conjure, or lack thereof. They are disabling accounts at will, until provided with player ID. So it’s an either give in or get out proposition. I saw a tastelessy amusing photo which jolly well sums up my position on this new policy. Here’s the link… viewer beware.
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The anti-pedo crusaders are surely playing a large role in all of this. Age verification has now become mandatory for anyone SL targets for whatever reason they conjure, or lack thereof. They are disabling accounts at will, until provided with player ID. So it’s an either give in or get out proposition. I saw a tastelessy amusing photo which jolly well sums up my position on this new policy. Here’s the link… viewer beware.
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I’m on the teen grid in SL, and another family member in the household is on the adult grid (he is an adult). I hear and see the craziest things from him, and in some ways wish I was on adult SL. There re hundreds, nay, thousands, of things to do in adult land, while in teen, we don’t even have people who can make interesting sims. Actually, while my oter family member tells me of all these”sims” he can go to, I feel depressed. We have a small strip if land in our SL, and a few small islands. Just about everything is extremely typical of teens, we have clubs, often with no music, we have our malls, and other shopping places, and there is simply no originality or true creativity. Most of the girls are simply large breasted, mini skirt wearing, blondies, with shiny necklaces, while the guys are either “big pimpin” or “gangsta”, or some sort of butchered demon thing. Sure we have our Furries, and they have their own little Plateau thing. But that’s it. Teens, and kids simply do not have the kind of cash to truly be as creative as possible. If I had the money, I’d learn scripting and building and have tons of fun. But I don’t have the greenbacks to do that kind of thing.
Now, about the pornography. Yes, in adult SL, porn, sex, and all sorts of things are extremely popular, and big moneymakers. Prostitutes, strippers, people who give you massages naked (seen it), are big business boomers. My family member has told me you can buy, fake avatar porn, a fake mini DVD player, and watch your fake porn on a fake TV, in a fake game. Yes that’s sad, but is no different then the real world in some ways. That movie coming out? “Captivity”? It’s about a sick twisted person doing sick twisted things, yet you can take your child and they can watch it. Thee is no way in life you can ever get rid os sick desperate people, in teen SL, men (and women), will walk up to you and ask for all sorts of things. A friend of mine, was mildly sexually harassed the other day, so what did I do? I did the same thing I would do toa pervert in the streets, or even at school. I told the guy off, called him pathetic and made him leave the area. He then went on to the next girl. Unfortunately, younger girls, from 12 to 13, don’t get it. They don’t understand that these people are perverted, they say, “Hy, this guy thinks I’m hot, why not encourage him?” Same for men. Though I must say I usually see the naivety in girls. It’s like middle school really, the pervertedness is not really better just because it’s labelled “Teen”, and I’ve seen early signs of sexual objects and the like in the grid. Beds with “positions” and more. I think sometimes people forget that some teens (not all mind you) are really no different then adults. They have the same mindsets, same desires, and same houghts. I’m used to sexual things, from talks in the classroom to walking in on your parents, to seeing it IN school. Not all teens are exactly the most innocent, nor ignorant people. I’m not saying teens should be on adult SL, that would be terrible, I think restrictions should be stricter on adult SL, wheter teens are in them or not. My family member on the adult grid says it’s pretty hard to walk down a public street and not see pornography, thus I almost don’t want to play. (Or am I allowed to) Second Life simply needs a little stricter policies. Certain places will be allowed to have porn, and should have a clear label saying so. I hope I didn’t rant too much, but (1.)Teen is just nothing compared to Adult SL, personally I think things should be somewhat cheaper, including premium accounts (2.)There should be stricter policies in SL, whether teens are there or not (3.)Just because we hit 18, does not make us mature intelligent people, instead of teen “horndogs” or that being under 18 makes us tupid, ignorant people who need to be EXTREMELY protected. It truly should be up to the parents. (Sadly). (4.) I wish it wasn’t so laggy. 😦
Thanks for actually reading this if you did. I hope it’s not too long.
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I’m on the teen grid in SL, and another family member in the household is on the adult grid (he is an adult). I hear and see the craziest things from him, and in some ways wish I was on adult SL. There re hundreds, nay, thousands, of things to do in adult land, while in teen, we don’t even have people who can make interesting sims. Actually, while my oter family member tells me of all these”sims” he can go to, I feel depressed. We have a small strip if land in our SL, and a few small islands. Just about everything is extremely typical of teens, we have clubs, often with no music, we have our malls, and other shopping places, and there is simply no originality or true creativity. Most of the girls are simply large breasted, mini skirt wearing, blondies, with shiny necklaces, while the guys are either “big pimpin” or “gangsta”, or some sort of butchered demon thing. Sure we have our Furries, and they have their own little Plateau thing. But that’s it. Teens, and kids simply do not have the kind of cash to truly be as creative as possible. If I had the money, I’d learn scripting and building and have tons of fun. But I don’t have the greenbacks to do that kind of thing.
Now, about the pornography. Yes, in adult SL, porn, sex, and all sorts of things are extremely popular, and big moneymakers. Prostitutes, strippers, people who give you massages naked (seen it), are big business boomers. My family member has told me you can buy, fake avatar porn, a fake mini DVD player, and watch your fake porn on a fake TV, in a fake game. Yes that’s sad, but is no different then the real world in some ways. That movie coming out? “Captivity”? It’s about a sick twisted person doing sick twisted things, yet you can take your child and they can watch it. Thee is no way in life you can ever get rid os sick desperate people, in teen SL, men (and women), will walk up to you and ask for all sorts of things. A friend of mine, was mildly sexually harassed the other day, so what did I do? I did the same thing I would do toa pervert in the streets, or even at school. I told the guy off, called him pathetic and made him leave the area. He then went on to the next girl. Unfortunately, younger girls, from 12 to 13, don’t get it. They don’t understand that these people are perverted, they say, “Hy, this guy thinks I’m hot, why not encourage him?” Same for men. Though I must say I usually see the naivety in girls. It’s like middle school really, the pervertedness is not really better just because it’s labelled “Teen”, and I’ve seen early signs of sexual objects and the like in the grid. Beds with “positions” and more. I think sometimes people forget that some teens (not all mind you) are really no different then adults. They have the same mindsets, same desires, and same houghts. I’m used to sexual things, from talks in the classroom to walking in on your parents, to seeing it IN school. Not all teens are exactly the most innocent, nor ignorant people. I’m not saying teens should be on adult SL, that would be terrible, I think restrictions should be stricter on adult SL, wheter teens are in them or not. My family member on the adult grid says it’s pretty hard to walk down a public street and not see pornography, thus I almost don’t want to play. (Or am I allowed to) Second Life simply needs a little stricter policies. Certain places will be allowed to have porn, and should have a clear label saying so. I hope I didn’t rant too much, but (1.)Teen is just nothing compared to Adult SL, personally I think things should be somewhat cheaper, including premium accounts (2.)There should be stricter policies in SL, whether teens are there or not (3.)Just because we hit 18, does not make us mature intelligent people, instead of teen “horndogs” or that being under 18 makes us tupid, ignorant people who need to be EXTREMELY protected. It truly should be up to the parents. (Sadly). (4.) I wish it wasn’t so laggy. 😦
Thanks for actually reading this if you did. I hope it’s not too long.
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That is a nice idea in fact of the themes but it will be hard to make this
in the real life. Someone dont want to be in that game and everybody have a
problem with its.
Whatever you have a nice page and the information that u give at this are very nice.
Thank you.
If u want you can visit my page, too.
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That is a nice idea in fact of the themes but it will be hard to make this
in the real life. Someone dont want to be in that game and everybody have a
problem with its.
Whatever you have a nice page and the information that u give at this are very nice.
Thank you.
If u want you can visit my page, too.
LikeLike