The Adobe Engage event is already proving interesting. Ryan Stewart wins the first report to come through Google Blog Search.
Takeaway? Adobe is indeed coming after developers. It’s interesting to hear their positioning vs. Microsoft. My post last week pretty much nailed it. Adobe’s Kevin Lynch says they try to extend the Web where Microsoft looks, he says, to extend Windows.
Adobe’s weaknesses? Corporate developers are safely in Microsoft’s camp because Adobe’s Apollo system (which lets developers build Windows, Mac, or Linux applications) can’t get to the Windows API (or the Mac API, or Linux’ API).
The other real loser here? Java. Apollo delivers real cross-platform apps that look a lot like what Microsoft always demonstrated with .NET 3.0 (great looking UIs and rich interaction).
But, clearly, Lynch wanted to position Apollo against Microsoft’s WPF/E, not Java.
Anyway, more later, we’re sitting through a ton of third-party demos now.
Scobleizer 
are Adobe targeting Linux with Apollo? I’d read in a number of places that the platform was “under review” with only OS/X and Windows confirmed (but I’m not an Apollo expert 😉
Java is, once again, the loser here… but not before time. It’s consistently failed to deliver on a bold promise, instead serving up a lame user experience on a number of platforms. I for one look forward to some 21st century alternatives – and with Adobe and Microsoft duking it out I think (unlike the Java vs everyone else wars) these protagonists are focused enough to make a go of both offerings. (okay, maybe a little harsh)
I think Kevin sounds a little defensive… with WPF/E ad what I’ve seen of it so far (and IMO it’s a much lower barrier to entry for hobby developers with the MSDN content being very accessible) I’d say they are both targeting the Web but Microsoft are not ashamed of supporting Windows (and given the sheer market share Windows has Adobe would be daft if they don’t pay as much attention to that market segment as well!) – but at the same time I’ve seen total parity on the development efforts on OS/X… for the first time I get a good Windows Media 9 playback experience in Safari…
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are Adobe targeting Linux with Apollo? I’d read in a number of places that the platform was “under review” with only OS/X and Windows confirmed (but I’m not an Apollo expert 😉
Java is, once again, the loser here… but not before time. It’s consistently failed to deliver on a bold promise, instead serving up a lame user experience on a number of platforms. I for one look forward to some 21st century alternatives – and with Adobe and Microsoft duking it out I think (unlike the Java vs everyone else wars) these protagonists are focused enough to make a go of both offerings. (okay, maybe a little harsh)
I think Kevin sounds a little defensive… with WPF/E ad what I’ve seen of it so far (and IMO it’s a much lower barrier to entry for hobby developers with the MSDN content being very accessible) I’d say they are both targeting the Web but Microsoft are not ashamed of supporting Windows (and given the sheer market share Windows has Adobe would be daft if they don’t pay as much attention to that market segment as well!) – but at the same time I’ve seen total parity on the development efforts on OS/X… for the first time I get a good Windows Media 9 playback experience in Safari…
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“are Adobe targeting Linux with Apollo?”
The first generation of internal builds went through rapid prototyping in a single operating system, Microsoft Windows. Current builds are developed for two OS, Mac and Win. The public 1.0 generation will be developed atop these two platforms, and the response to 1.0 will give good guidance for the future:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Apollo:developerfaq#What_platforms_does_Apollo_1.0_target.3F
Generally, the goal of Adobe work these days is to remove barriers to delivering to your audience.
jd/adobe
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“are Adobe targeting Linux with Apollo?”
The first generation of internal builds went through rapid prototyping in a single operating system, Microsoft Windows. Current builds are developed for two OS, Mac and Win. The public 1.0 generation will be developed atop these two platforms, and the response to 1.0 will give good guidance for the future:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Apollo:developerfaq#What_platforms_does_Apollo_1.0_target.3F
Generally, the goal of Adobe work these days is to remove barriers to delivering to your audience.
jd/adobe
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It’s consistently failed to deliver on a bold promise, instead serving up a lame user experience on a number of platforms. – Developers design the UE, not the programming language.
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It’s consistently failed to deliver on a bold promise, instead serving up a lame user experience on a number of platforms. – Developers design the UE, not the programming language.
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As long as you charge for the developer tools, you are losing. Why don’t you get it?
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As long as you charge for the developer tools, you are losing. Why don’t you get it?
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Adobe’s weaknesses? Corporate developers are safely in Microsoft’s camp because Adobe’s Apollo system (which lets developers build Windows, Mac, or Linux applications) can’t get to the Windows API (or the Mac API, or Linux’ API).
And how much of the Mac OS X API does WPF/E get to?
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Adobe’s weaknesses? Corporate developers are safely in Microsoft’s camp because Adobe’s Apollo system (which lets developers build Windows, Mac, or Linux applications) can’t get to the Windows API (or the Mac API, or Linux’ API).
And how much of the Mac OS X API does WPF/E get to?
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Corporate developers are safely in Microsoft’s camp because Adobe’s Apollo system (which lets developers build Windows, Mac, or Linux applications) can’t get to the Windows API (or the Mac API, or Linux’ API).
Most corporate developers I know are not in MS camp, they are in the Java camp.
It will be a challenge for Adobe to get them to come visit and stay in the Flash/PDF (Apollo) camp.
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Corporate developers are safely in Microsoft’s camp because Adobe’s Apollo system (which lets developers build Windows, Mac, or Linux applications) can’t get to the Windows API (or the Mac API, or Linux’ API).
Most corporate developers I know are not in MS camp, they are in the Java camp.
It will be a challenge for Adobe to get them to come visit and stay in the Flash/PDF (Apollo) camp.
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Microsoft does have a challenged business model here as they compete with developers more and more. It is reminiscent of the backlash Apple faced a few years ago from their development community. This quote seems very true to me: “Adobe’s Kevin Lynch says they try to extend the Web where Microsoft looks, he says, to extend Windows.”
I do worry about losing vital functionality at the cost of cross platform support but it seems like that can be resolved in future generations of the platform.
The vision of integrated online and offline experiences is definitely an emerging industry meme right now. Apollo will make it infinitely easier for developers to get a start in this online offline world. The extent of Adobe’s success will be determined by the limitations put on developers.
Here at Simple Star we developed our PhotoShow platform with these online / offline integrated service ideologies and have faced many challenges over the last 5 years as we have built it. Apollo would have gotten us up and running faster (had it existed 5 years ago) but I am not sure that we would have had deep enough access to OS integration and the ability to play within the data structures of other applications. I applaud Adobe’s thought leadership here and can’t wait to see what the community creates! (My recent “Software 2.0” post talks about why this direction of development is the future: http://chadrichard.typepad.com/my_2_cents/2007/01/software_20.html )
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Microsoft does have a challenged business model here as they compete with developers more and more. It is reminiscent of the backlash Apple faced a few years ago from their development community. This quote seems very true to me: “Adobe’s Kevin Lynch says they try to extend the Web where Microsoft looks, he says, to extend Windows.”
I do worry about losing vital functionality at the cost of cross platform support but it seems like that can be resolved in future generations of the platform.
The vision of integrated online and offline experiences is definitely an emerging industry meme right now. Apollo will make it infinitely easier for developers to get a start in this online offline world. The extent of Adobe’s success will be determined by the limitations put on developers.
Here at Simple Star we developed our PhotoShow platform with these online / offline integrated service ideologies and have faced many challenges over the last 5 years as we have built it. Apollo would have gotten us up and running faster (had it existed 5 years ago) but I am not sure that we would have had deep enough access to OS integration and the ability to play within the data structures of other applications. I applaud Adobe’s thought leadership here and can’t wait to see what the community creates! (My recent “Software 2.0” post talks about why this direction of development is the future: http://chadrichard.typepad.com/my_2_cents/2007/01/software_20.html )
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Microsoft does have a challenged business model here as they compete with developers more and more. It is reminiscent of the backlash Apple faced a few years ago from their development community. This quote seems very true to me: “Adobe’s Kevin Lynch says they try to extend the Web where Microsoft looks, he says, to extend Windows.”
I do worry about losing vital functionality at the cost of cross platform support but it seems like that can be resolved in future generations of the platform.
The vision of integrated online and offline experiences is definitely an emerging industry meme right now. Apollo will make it infinitely easier for developers to get a start in this online offline world. The extent of Adobe’s success will be determined by the limitations put on developers.
Here at Simple Star we developed our PhotoShow platform with these online / offline integrated service ideologies and have faced many challenges over the last 5 years as we have built it. Apollo would have gotten us up and running faster (had it existed 5 years ago) but I am not sure that we would have had deep enough access to OS integration and the ability to play within the data structures of other applications. I applaud Adobe’s thought leadership here and can’t wait to see what the community creates!
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Microsoft does have a challenged business model here as they compete with developers more and more. It is reminiscent of the backlash Apple faced a few years ago from their development community. This quote seems very true to me: “Adobe’s Kevin Lynch says they try to extend the Web where Microsoft looks, he says, to extend Windows.”
I do worry about losing vital functionality at the cost of cross platform support but it seems like that can be resolved in future generations of the platform.
The vision of integrated online and offline experiences is definitely an emerging industry meme right now. Apollo will make it infinitely easier for developers to get a start in this online offline world. The extent of Adobe’s success will be determined by the limitations put on developers.
Here at Simple Star we developed our PhotoShow platform with these online / offline integrated service ideologies and have faced many challenges over the last 5 years as we have built it. Apollo would have gotten us up and running faster (had it existed 5 years ago) but I am not sure that we would have had deep enough access to OS integration and the ability to play within the data structures of other applications. I applaud Adobe’s thought leadership here and can’t wait to see what the community creates!
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“The other real loser here? Java.”
Not really. A very robust Java platform will be in public soon. See the comparison with Apollo on Dekoh.com/blog
Vijay/dekoh
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“The other real loser here? Java.”
Not really. A very robust Java platform will be in public soon. See the comparison with Apollo on Dekoh.com/blog
Vijay/dekoh
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hey robert- we need to talk about corporate developers. you’re possibly missing some context about java people using flex to extend apps like SAP. Check out this case study – http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2006/12/01/case-study-t-mobile-and-adobe-flex-extending-sap-with-agile-methods/
there is a lot of this going on. Flex is a great SAP extension platform.
disclaimers: adobe is a client
SAP is in the pipeline.
Microsoft is client in some areas.
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hey robert- we need to talk about corporate developers. you’re possibly missing some context about java people using flex to extend apps like SAP. Check out this case study – http://redmonk.com/jgovernor/2006/12/01/case-study-t-mobile-and-adobe-flex-extending-sap-with-agile-methods/
there is a lot of this going on. Flex is a great SAP extension platform.
disclaimers: adobe is a client
SAP is in the pipeline.
Microsoft is client in some areas.
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