Last week I sat down with Disqus CEO, Daniel Ha. Here’s that video where he explains the new real-time features (among others) that were just turned on this morning. Including on this blog. This means you can comment and “chat” with other commenters without reloading the page.
A couple of weeks ago I sat down with Disqus competitor, JS-Kit, and got their view of real-time comments. We were the first site to use their real-time commenting feature, named Echo.
But now it’s clear that there’s a rift coming. See, these features keep you from refreshing the page to participate in comments. That will dramatically reduce the page views, which will reduce the amount they collect from advertisers (I don’t have those problems, cause I don’t have advertising like that on my site).
The thing is, over on building43 we saw engagement increase dramatically. On that post we saw a 10x increase in time spent on page. Overall we’ve seen the time spent on page increase about 3x.
Which shows we need a new way to get paid for advertising. No longer is refreshing the page important. That’s the old way of paying for advertising. The new way? How much engagement you have on the page.
The problem is that the advertisers won’t figure this out for some time. New companies, like Seattle’s Adometry, are coming that will help them figure this out (more later this week when I get a video up from them).
Anyway, it will be interesting to see which publishers choose not to turn on these real-time features. That will tell me who has business models to protect.
First you are dead right about comments driving pageviews – I wrote about this last year and it still holds true today – it's also why some blogs love when they get any kind of comment – it drives at least 1 extra pageview and most times way more as the person returns to see if anyone replies.”No longer is refreshing the page important. That’s the old way of paying for advertising”When this changes, call me 🙂 I've been saying we need to get away from this since at least 2002 if not earlier – and it hasn't changed. So for now, refreshing the page is important. I will continue to hope it changes.
LikeLike
By the way, you can chat with me now.
LikeLike
Page views are not the right metrics. We need a new model that measures engagement. Real-time comments are the ultimate sticky. Unfortunately, a new way of instantaneously banning s p a m junk needs to be robust as well.
LikeLike
So we can finally keep people from gaming the system? Nice. Quality engagement over spurious clicking? Isn't that the way it *should* be?
LikeLike
pretty sure the whole pay per click internet advertising model is slowly making its way into history .. real time plus everybody everywhere talking to everybody will make the ad game disperse to the point of near invisibility ..
LikeLike
Robert. I vote on real-time embedded comment advertising. Just imagine that as we're reading comments, ads can pop-up in place as the conversation grows (every 5 comments). That would be a unique way and Disqus & Js-Kit could become publishers and sell ad-space, giving bloggers a cut of the profit.
LikeLike
Surely the obvious way is to just have an ad appear every X number of comments?
LikeLike
I don't understand this, since when do we get paid for page views on advertising? With Google adsense I only get paid per click, the impressions are tracked but they don't contribute to revenue. I thought this was the standard practice for most advertising models. Or am I understanding it wrong?If the concern is that the ads are at the top of the page far away from the comments. Just make your sidebar with ads in a fixed position that scrolls with the page, or something to that effect.
LikeLike
It will take time for advertisers to think upon the factors like engagement and average time spend by the visitors !
LikeLike
How long before advertisers are jumping into “hot” comment conversations with marketing messages? My guess – it's already happening… bummer.
LikeLike
Dave: most “pro” bloggers have banner ads that pay per CPM (per 1000 page views).
LikeLike
That's been happening for a long time!
LikeLike
gregory–why does this eliminate Pay-per-click models?
LikeLike
I hate the page views game. People fighting over comments and Digg links and meme bait need to just go away. It's about quality conversation, content and conversation.
LikeLike
interesting idea there robert… and i understand your logic – the average joe (like me) however, will turn these features on without a thought – and there's many many more of us than those who have page view business models
LikeLike
Solution: ads within the real-time comments. Everybody wins! 😉
LikeLike
I like the new Disqus look around this comment, Louis. Realtime commenting is fun. It's amazing how quickly I've come to take all of this for granted. When did FF v2 go live – March?
LikeLike
I like this disqus theme too, but the real-time comments are too 'thick' or tall… works better on FF where you can fit a lot more comments into the same amount of space
LikeLike
sure the solution would be realtime ads, ads that rotate once per minute. Note not flashing ads.
LikeLike
i think commenter need to get paid for commenting on sites like this an making it better; first; i've been programing for 20 years, know more shit than the ceos interviewed; and well… everyone involved in the Web 2.0 debacle should be shot.anyway. good luck scoble. you've got a hard job.
LikeLike
2nd that… but that won't quite that very vocal minority. I wonder how spammers will adapt. They always do.
LikeLike
i could go one step further. what if disqus created a central twitter like page where all comments from all disqus enabled blogs were displayed – allowing you to comment and reply right there. if you think about it all these disqus comments would display well as a twitter-like stream. then they enable search off that stream and visits to the blogs themselves would drop fast.
LikeLike
no way should we get paid for commenting on robert's site – that's just ridiculous and makes me wonder about the rest of your comment
LikeLike
Robert, another thing i've just been noticing since using the 'new' diqus today is that the comments don't seem to come into my email in the order that they were posted.. maybe i'm wrong here, but it's not nearly as smooth as friendfeed's email notifications.
LikeLike
Page views is the old old way of getting paid for advertising. Google ads have always been click thru driven, though I am guessing that they still drive a lot of metrics from the number of page views.
LikeLike
how did you get the updated WordPress plugin?
LikeLike
Interesting new dynamic for bloggers and advertisers. Wonder how it will all sort out?
LikeLike
Interesting new dynamic for bloggers and advertisers. Wonder how it will all sort out.
LikeLike
This seems like the obvious way to continue the old model. Whether we like it or not I expect this to start showing up in “real time” commenting systems soon.
LikeLike
There s no updated WordPress plugin. All updates are server sized and are rolled out to all plugin-using blogs.
LikeLike
How many people read blogs by going to the web page anyway? How many people go there, comment then continue refreshing the page to read new comments in order to simulate real time type comments? Is this really an issue
LikeLike
Interesting – I'm not seeing any of the updates on my blog yet
LikeLike
No what upsets me off about Disqus is that it breaks the ability to leave trackbacks, the original and most respected form of comment an add on post. It's breaking the blogosphere's most fundamental functionality when there is no need for this if they respected the blog mediums traditions.Discus must fix this simple and fundamental shortcoming.
LikeLike
Seems to me that if you want the real-time comments to encourage a “chat like” environment, you'd want the most recent comments to be at the top, so I could see both the comment box and the most recent comments at once. Too much scrolling as is.
LikeLike
I think that real time chat is really cool. The more interactive, the better, Frank
LikeLike
I'm glad about the realtime comments and no page re-loading. I just started really looking closer at Disqus yesterday and this is a nice development. I like the idea behind Disqus because I can (kind of) own my comments, or at least have them all in one place. The following features are interesting as well. One thing I've noticed with the changes is I can't find the rss feeds for my comments or anyone I'm following.
LikeLike
If you reframe that just a bit and change the word “ad” for “brand (or merchant) interaction” within the activity stream, I think you are unto something (we are building this right now).
LikeLike
Is that true? When I look at the very bottom of this page, I see a trackback URL.
LikeLike
As technologies like AJAX get more widespread the “issue” of no more page loads will become more of a problem. Our site (iTrackmine), for example, can't use a metric like pageviews because a user can do nearly everything they need to do from a single page, and spend hours on that one page and never refresh it. So, places like Alexa or Compete think we have no users because we can few pageviews. They are wrong.Not only will this “new fangled” AJAX stuff mess with CPM, but also valuations based on pageviews, and assumptions so many investors, bloggers, and outsiders come up with by using an Alexa or Compete-style tools.
LikeLike
As technologies like AJAX get more widespread the “issue” of no more page loads will become more of a problem. Our site (iTrackmine), for example, can't use a metric like pageviews because a user can do nearly everything they need to do from a single page, and spend hours on that one page and never refresh it. So, places like Alexa or Compete think we have no users because we can few pageviews. They are wrong.Not only will this “new fangled” AJAX stuff mess with CPM, but also valuations based on pageviews, and assumptions so many investors, bloggers, and outsiders come up with by using an Alexa or Compete-style tools.
LikeLike
I see this issue you mention about AJAX VS. Page Views as an issue that has been going on for a while. It probably is and has been holding the web back, but there is no obvious solution to me yet. The overall issue is that while an AJAX interface is much better overall for the user experience, the older, page by page style, is better for advertisers/page views and search engines. For instance, one could make a great snappy AJAX UI that gets and loads data on the fly without page loads (like Disqus now) but the search engines probably wouldn't see much of that data/content. So I think some are holding back on it and what Robert wrote about is an instance of this issue.
LikeLike
The world just needs to go forward.
LikeLike
@Robert Do you have your social media reactions turned on? If not, then I no longer feel like the only person who has to wait an extremely extended period of time for them to show up in my Disqus stream. However, something tells me that YOU DO have them turned off. Hmmmm….
LikeLike
Hit up your Disqus Comments settings.
LikeLike
I'm saying this, not as a statement from Disqus, but as a wholly personal opinion:There's something traditionally original or respected about trackbacks. People used it before and its value as plummeted in recent years. I can't speak for you, but I don't check out trackback links very often because they're usually just regurgitating that post or a spam repost.That said, Disqus supports trackbacks.
LikeLike
another idea, for example on this comment list is to have banner ads to follow the scrolling of the page as viewers like myself read the comments on the site, i get top of mind recall of the banners beside it (right side of the comment thread)… would that work?
LikeLike
If the ads are good enough you should be able to put in a next button in the ad and let your viewer click through the inventory..
LikeLike
Robert, I think that this 'real time' is now the thing that most want to be able to do, don't you? If I set up a WordPress Blog, how do you get these Disqus real time comments to work? (note I am not clever enough to use the downloadable WordPress version, it would just be the Website version
LikeLike
Yes, you have to make the visual updated manually, by changing the “theme” of your Disqus. That's only visual though, the functionality rolls out automatically.
LikeLike
People don't. Bloggers do stay and stare at the new pages, however. 😉 It's their addiction.What I love most about Disqus is the fact it allows you to comment via email. That's how people who won't ever bother visit your page again might continue being part of the conversation. I'd love to see Disqus implement even IM notifications in v4.
LikeLike
Yes! I'd love IM notification too. I've been using friendfeed IM notification and I really like it.
LikeLike
You can't use Disqus in wordpress.com but I hear Matt Mullenweg and team are working on new real-time commenting features themselves.
LikeLike
I totally agree with Daniel. Trackbacks are lame. I wish they never had been invented. I spend most of my time just blocking spam in them.
LikeLike
The economics of employing those 'qualified' (meaning sanctioned by the corporation) to address Real Time comments currently does not stack up. You would need Call Centers full of 'press-trained' PR folks ready to give legally watertight responses to sometime ill-thought-out and potentially libelllous comments. This is NOT the way the world is going, look at the recent Wikipedia moves to edit content. For this reason, I think there are some big questions on Real Time Comments as the Next Big Thing (for business, consumer-feedback is another matter..)
LikeLike
hello
LikeLike
I would like people to see me typing too.
LikeLike
Woohoo real time disqus, I feel less worried about being reliant on external social sites, we can chat on each others blog pages. Will update and turn on real time as soon as I'm able. Thanks for the heads up Robert.
LikeLike
Amen to that Louis (I use far too many spiritual statements for a pro faith, no religion sorta guy). It comes down to value derived from a site experience. I want information, entertainment, thought provoking discourse and those activities aren't directly supported by modern web monetization models.Sharing, linking, and explaining are natural activities to bloggers, why shouldn't there be ways for them to capitalize on this incredible value given. Most folks I follow don't have ads because it doesn't fit into their vision of their virtual home, “hey come on in for a beer and pretzels but first look at this Pepsi tapestry”. Everytime you share something or writeup great documentation on a product or technology I should be able to say thanks, here's a shiny quarter. Some potential methods:micro paymentsmonthly mini subscriptions ($.99 even an option to say hey Louis good job giving us the skinny on things) or you put out an ebook every 3months based on your posts & greatest findsAnyone who buys in could be afforded greater access or maybe even suggest topics, or just a shiny star next to their names in your comment section to show they support your work.
LikeLike
“Which shows we need a new way to get paid for advertising” – exactly !! The old advertising model is truly dead, for so many reasons. Take a look at what we do as an alternative, maybe even for Building43
LikeLike
Automattic bought Intense Debate – http://ma.tt/2008/09/intense-debate-goes-automa…The latest releases are getting better and better, more closely integrated with the core via the comment API.
LikeLike
Firstly – it really is a shame that publishers have to design the websites around impressions. Those fortune magazine style slide shows are not fun from a user perspective.Some strange comments: old model of advertising dead? PPC in on it way into history? ???I am sure we will see some new ad serving technology to level the playing field.
LikeLike
It is quite possible to channel your emails to IM but that'd be manual workon the suer's side which Disqus could eleviate easily (many other servicesprovide complex IM bots like the best Yahoo Answers wannabe Vark.com)
LikeLike
You want google wave
LikeLike
Ahh – that makes sense! thanks!
LikeLike
Well it will reduce PI but not necessarily visits. And I kept telling my customers that it is the visits that are im portant and noit the PI (and that number iof RSS subscribers is a purely fictional value 😉 )
LikeLike
Well, isn't it more about who clicks on the ad and goes to that ad placer's page, not how many times the page gets refreshed? It's the clickthrough, no? I'm not getting this.
LikeLike
Technogran, there are a number of “push button” WordPress hosts out there, which makes things easy.Whether Disqus would be your best choice for a commenting system is another thing. I use Disqus, and there is one or two things which erk me about it.
LikeLike
Thanks Robert for you prompt reply.
LikeLike
Actually Windows live messenger use this technology. ButIt is a program. I didn't know how work on web pages.I have a question.Is it a plugin or a script?
LikeLike
Well, so nice post, haah! Your mind helps me so much! I'm not sure if you mind the thing I'll do here. Im an online seller for the Timberland shoes, Gucci shoes, Prada shoes and Gucci bags, Coach bags, Prada bags, and the pretty Adidas sunglassess, D&G sunglasses , Dior sunglasses are my products also. Alright, seems I have to make the apology for my MLB jerseys, NFL jerseys, NBA jerseys, NHL jerseys, they are the most hot items on my sites, are u interest in them?
LikeLike
Disqus comments system is very convenient, I think it will be become the first comments system in the netwaork, more good than others…:) do you think it ,Scobleizer ??
LikeLike
Agreed
LikeLike
Can i use this blog as reference in my college report Regards______________________________________________________________Welcome to the Aion Gold Shop – the only store to buy Aion Powerleveling,
LikeLike
<h2 align=”center”>Costs For Uggs–What It Costs?</h2>–>Are you lusting after a few (or even more) Uggs (UGG Australia) boots and if so, you're in good company, as girls and women of all ages, especially with the simple, slipper-like design of these sheepskin ugg boots, which are relatively easy and very comfortable to wear. And they appear to be affected. Some men are also jumping on the trend and luxury UGGs? Australia, the brand also offers a range of contemporary styles for them.–>Could you mind giving everyone loves from ugg-boots? There are so many types of uggs, ugg bailey button,ugg classic tall, ugg classic short, ugg classic cardy. How to choose your favorite? Or do you really want to one uggs regardless its style? Despite their design is awkward and slipper-lile, Uggs is one of the few stations that are of general interest, have argued that cross generational lines.–>Young people, students and young mothers and the Middle Ages, the original Black Ultra Tall UGG Boots, seem pulled the fleecy-lined boots that are manufactured in Australia, with the best materials. Are you sure that your feet warm in winter without socks, and cool in summer so that is more versatile too? If no, hurry up to take one ugg boots on goodugg uk sale ! That's why we see people wear them in schools, supermarkets, on the slopes and even in the most popular beaches in the United States and abroad. Many surfers also use uggs to keep their feet warm.–>What do you really care about? Is its price or quality, or you just following the general trend? You know what are you thinking in your heart!
LikeLike
Can anyone help me add this feature to my blogspot blog?Thanks
LikeLike
rift coming see, these features keep you from refreshing the page to participate in comments. That will dramatically reduce the page views, which will reduce the amount they collect from advertisers.That is quite different story.
LikeLike
<h2 align=”center”>Don't Do For Ugg Boots UK</h2>–>If you own a pair of Ugg boots, ugg classic short, be sure to take proper care of them and clean them regularly. With the proper care and cleaning, Uggs can last several years or even a lifetime.You love sheepskin footwear and ugg classic because they are comfortable and fashionable. How to keep them looking great? The following are a few tips to help you to know what you don't do for your natural beauty and functionality uggs.–>Tip one, don't store your cardy boots ugg in a light place. Because they can bleach in extreme sunlight.–>Tip two, ugg boots should not be worn in extremely moist or muddy conditions as moisture can cause problems.–>Tip three, don't clean the exterior of? your uggs knightsbridge with a hard brush or cloth at first time dirty. –>Tip four, trying not to saturate the sheepskin footwear with water, especially warm or hot water. And don't clean them in a washing machine or dryer, this will cause problems with shrinkage and can adversely change the sheepskin.–>Tip five, if need, except specially detergent for sheepskin product, just like classic ugg mini, don't use any wool detergent. Also don't use high concentration cleaning solution.–>Some suggestions for you to protect your natural beauty and functionality uggs long periods of time. And also hoping to help you solving your hesitation, spending little time to know more information about ugg boots.–>All rights reserved, reprint, please specify source comes from http://www.goodugg.co.uk —bailey button,ugg knightsbridge boots,cardy boots,ugg tall classic
LikeLike