Jason Calacanis has started a big argument where Duncan Riley over at TechCrunch has stood up for slackers everywhere (he couches it in language of “pro family” in the family/life balance). The thing is, Duncan might talk to his boss, Mike Arrington. Did Mike get to where he is by slacking off and hanging out with his friends and having a “real life?” No. He worked his ass off. I’ve caught Mike on several occasions working until 3 a.m. or later. And he still is doing that work ethic. Of course, that hard work pays off: Mike was on the Charlie Rose show this week.
I’ve been in several startups and have witnessed first hand the ascerbic aspects that slackers bring. Believe me, this is the #1 killer of startups. If you don’t get rid of unproductive people (or even better, avoid hiring them in the first place) your startup will go down.
Jason also told me about two employees who’d be outside smoking while the rest of the company was working hard during lunches. He fired those two. Why? They weren’t team players.
Another killer I’ve seen? Assholes. Every entrepreneur should read “The No Asshole Rule.”
But, to Jason Calacanis’ point, how do startups save money? I’m practicing one right now: share hotel rooms. It’s a pain in the ass, yes, but it sure stretches that travel budget further. At CES one year I even stayed a night in a Hostel. This was while I was working at Microsoft and could have spent $400 a night on a hotel room (I don’t recommend going THAT cheap, by the way — you need to be able to lock people out of your stuff).
Scobleizer 
I think Joel Spolsky wrote the perfect retort a couple of weeks before Calacanis’s article:
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20080301/how-hard-could-it-be-lessons-i-learned-in-the-army.html
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I think Joel Spolsky wrote the perfect retort a couple of weeks before Calacanis’s article:
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20080301/how-hard-could-it-be-lessons-i-learned-in-the-army.html
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This is all fine as long as the “owner” is plugging in the trenches as well and making similar time, committment and comfort sacrifices.
Lots of startups (and non startups as well) seem to demand long hours nose to the grindstone work of employees while the guys at the top are drawing large salaries, buying fancy cars, travelling first class, living on expenses and generally having a good time at the organization’s expense.
If you want others to eat dog food you better be slopping from the same bowl.
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This is all fine as long as the “owner” is plugging in the trenches as well and making similar time, committment and comfort sacrifices.
Lots of startups (and non startups as well) seem to demand long hours nose to the grindstone work of employees while the guys at the top are drawing large salaries, buying fancy cars, travelling first class, living on expenses and generally having a good time at the organization’s expense.
If you want others to eat dog food you better be slopping from the same bowl.
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I think with start-ups working ultra-hard is part of the job. Different jobs have different amounts of stress, and while a good life-work balance is important, although unique to everyone, you should take that into consideration BEFORE you take the job. My brother was part of a start-up and he worked his ass off, mostly because another guy at the company wasn’t, and that screwed my brother over until he quit. Hence the rocket blew up mid-way (I’m saying my brother probably could have helped fix that problem, not that he caused it). Me personally, if the start-up was an idea that I personally liked, I’d be willing to work ultra-hard for it, if it wasn’t, I would either make that clear before I agreed to the job or not take the job.
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I think with start-ups working ultra-hard is part of the job. Different jobs have different amounts of stress, and while a good life-work balance is important, although unique to everyone, you should take that into consideration BEFORE you take the job. My brother was part of a start-up and he worked his ass off, mostly because another guy at the company wasn’t, and that screwed my brother over until he quit. Hence the rocket blew up mid-way (I’m saying my brother probably could have helped fix that problem, not that he caused it). Me personally, if the start-up was an idea that I personally liked, I’d be willing to work ultra-hard for it, if it wasn’t, I would either make that clear before I agreed to the job or not take the job.
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Do I ALWAYS hafata correct your headline-grabbing but dead-wrong analysis?
Jason is a slave driver, breaking OHSA and common sense rules, treating employees as prisoners, whilst adopting Marxist economic outlooks, filing that under hard work is going seriously mental. He’s a lawsuit in the making.
There’s people that work very hard, and there’s slave labor, having a family is not the definition of slackerdom (in fact those with families tend to be the MOST loyal, as the singles are out to court companies and move up at whims). But as a general rule slackers don’t join start-ups. And Jason would have fired most of Google and Microsoft, as they work and play very hard, indeed playtime is half the culture.
And furthermorehence, some people are more efficient with their time, slackers can grant the appearance of hard work, but it’s the product output that matters. Indeed slackers oft need more time. 5 hours with 90 widgets or 10 hours with 50, which wins?
And if you bring in millions to the company, you can come in at noon and leave at 2.
And you know what? Luck actually has more to do with success than hard work, right time, right place, right product, meeting the right demand. To think that only hard work produces results is the Marxist Labor Theory of Value, where the price of a good is determined by the labor that went into it. Nope, the price of a good is decided by what people will PAY for it.
And parting with Godwin’s Law, “Arbeit Macht Frei” (Work Makes Free) is what the Nazi’s hung over concentration camps.
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Do I ALWAYS hafata correct your headline-grabbing but dead-wrong analysis?
Jason is a slave driver, breaking OHSA and common sense rules, treating employees as prisoners, whilst adopting Marxist economic outlooks, filing that under hard work is going seriously mental. He’s a lawsuit in the making.
There’s people that work very hard, and there’s slave labor, having a family is not the definition of slackerdom (in fact those with families tend to be the MOST loyal, as the singles are out to court companies and move up at whims). But as a general rule slackers don’t join start-ups. And Jason would have fired most of Google and Microsoft, as they work and play very hard, indeed playtime is half the culture.
And furthermorehence, some people are more efficient with their time, slackers can grant the appearance of hard work, but it’s the product output that matters. Indeed slackers oft need more time. 5 hours with 90 widgets or 10 hours with 50, which wins?
And if you bring in millions to the company, you can come in at noon and leave at 2.
And you know what? Luck actually has more to do with success than hard work, right time, right place, right product, meeting the right demand. To think that only hard work produces results is the Marxist Labor Theory of Value, where the price of a good is determined by the labor that went into it. Nope, the price of a good is decided by what people will PAY for it.
And parting with Godwin’s Law, “Arbeit Macht Frei” (Work Makes Free) is what the Nazi’s hung over concentration camps.
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And also:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120485185824018261.html?mod=hps_us_inside_today
Employees are demonstrating what they think with their feet.
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And also:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120485185824018261.html?mod=hps_us_inside_today
Employees are demonstrating what they think with their feet.
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And yah know (just for a sense of history, as I have a good memory), you were on the OTHER SIDE of this argument, when it was Electronic Arts ruining families, and all the bad press that got. You were VERY pro-family then.
Really you have no center ideological compass, you just flag up the most sensational slant possible at any given moment to get dupes like me a commenting. 😉
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And yah know (just for a sense of history, as I have a good memory), you were on the OTHER SIDE of this argument, when it was Electronic Arts ruining families, and all the bad press that got. You were VERY pro-family then.
Really you have no center ideological compass, you just flag up the most sensational slant possible at any given moment to get dupes like me a commenting. 😉
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Why is it that this whole thing is expressed in such black and white terms? There is a middle ground between “slacker” and “workaholic”, which is probably the best balance for long term survival of any company as well as the health of any employee. I make a special exception for the founders of any company, as they have to do what needs to be done. But to expect employees without anywhere as much equity to work “their asses off” and do so all of the time is a bit much. You, Robert, have described your home-life as fulfilling, so I imagine that you are no workaholic, because otherwise you would hardly ever see your family. Obviously you are no slacker either. So I wonder if you really mean this post, or are you just trolling for traffic?
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Why is it that this whole thing is expressed in such black and white terms? There is a middle ground between “slacker” and “workaholic”, which is probably the best balance for long term survival of any company as well as the health of any employee. I make a special exception for the founders of any company, as they have to do what needs to be done. But to expect employees without anywhere as much equity to work “their asses off” and do so all of the time is a bit much. You, Robert, have described your home-life as fulfilling, so I imagine that you are no workaholic, because otherwise you would hardly ever see your family. Obviously you are no slacker either. So I wonder if you really mean this post, or are you just trolling for traffic?
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We’ve all done our time at startups; I’ve repeated the process 6 times during my 20+ years (including a stint with one of your former employers). In an age where most technifados hitch their trailer blog to the latest trends, one has to wonder where the axiom work smarter not harder (read:longer) fell off.
Some of Jason’s “ideas” fall under the headline – common sense – or things to avoid before the next bubble bursts; however, his Machiavellian approach and attitude is the antithesis of what makes great startups become great companies.
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We’ve all done our time at startups; I’ve repeated the process 6 times during my 20+ years (including a stint with one of your former employers). In an age where most technifados hitch their trailer blog to the latest trends, one has to wonder where the axiom work smarter not harder (read:longer) fell off.
Some of Jason’s “ideas” fall under the headline – common sense – or things to avoid before the next bubble bursts; however, his Machiavellian approach and attitude is the antithesis of what makes great startups become great companies.
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The people at the top work their asses off because of the potential big payout at the end – to expect people on $35k to work their asses off is dumb.
With regards to sharing a room – let’s hope the other guy doesn’t snore too loudly or the money you saved will be counteracted by the loss due to a not so good performance the next day.
It’s all about balance – do you think JCal would work HIS ass off for $35k.
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The people at the top work their asses off because of the potential big payout at the end – to expect people on $35k to work their asses off is dumb.
With regards to sharing a room – let’s hope the other guy doesn’t snore too loudly or the money you saved will be counteracted by the loss due to a not so good performance the next day.
It’s all about balance – do you think JCal would work HIS ass off for $35k.
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“Jason also told me about two employees who’d be outside smoking while the rest of the company was working hard during lunches. He fired those two. Why? They weren’t team players.”
How so? Should people be fired if they have a bladder problem and need to go to the restroom every 2 hours to relieve themselves? Does what they do the rest of the time matter? Perhaps they arrive early and stay late, and chances are they might be as team players as everyone else. Hey, smoking is bad for you and for your insurance company, but it has nothing to do with your ability to work as a team.
Look, I’m not going to make a pro-smokers point here, but I have one employee who smokes. Yes he takes his 3-5 minutes break every 2-3 hours. And for some reason, I actually find that a good thing. When he gets back from his 3min “break” he sits down and not only works as hard as everyone else, he’s been rewarded with some “fresh air” (not the one from the smoke, of course) that makes him even more productive than those who stay put at their chair for 6 hours straight. Ever talked to a truck driver? Breaks are mandatory, and for a good reason. Why should it be different when you spend your time in an office? 5 minutes breaks every 2-3 hours are a very good thing – spend it at the water cooler, having a smoke or talking a walk. Just please, do get off that chair every once in a while. It’s a GOOD THING.
Of course, taking those “breaks” has absolutely nothing to do with being a team player or not.
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“Jason also told me about two employees who’d be outside smoking while the rest of the company was working hard during lunches. He fired those two. Why? They weren’t team players.”
How so? Should people be fired if they have a bladder problem and need to go to the restroom every 2 hours to relieve themselves? Does what they do the rest of the time matter? Perhaps they arrive early and stay late, and chances are they might be as team players as everyone else. Hey, smoking is bad for you and for your insurance company, but it has nothing to do with your ability to work as a team.
Look, I’m not going to make a pro-smokers point here, but I have one employee who smokes. Yes he takes his 3-5 minutes break every 2-3 hours. And for some reason, I actually find that a good thing. When he gets back from his 3min “break” he sits down and not only works as hard as everyone else, he’s been rewarded with some “fresh air” (not the one from the smoke, of course) that makes him even more productive than those who stay put at their chair for 6 hours straight. Ever talked to a truck driver? Breaks are mandatory, and for a good reason. Why should it be different when you spend your time in an office? 5 minutes breaks every 2-3 hours are a very good thing – spend it at the water cooler, having a smoke or talking a walk. Just please, do get off that chair every once in a while. It’s a GOOD THING.
Of course, taking those “breaks” has absolutely nothing to do with being a team player or not.
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I once shared a $48/night hotel room in New Jersey with our VP of Marketing, who, god bless him, you really don’t want to share a room with. That’s some stretching…
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I once shared a $48/night hotel room in New Jersey with our VP of Marketing, who, god bless him, you really don’t want to share a room with. That’s some stretching…
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I’ve been at companies that demanded long hours and it’s funny how quickly the marginal return of those additional hours approaches zero. If you’re talking mindless sweatshops then fine more hours for the same pay is great but for knowledge workers there’s a max output per week and in my experience it’s reached way before you get to the “no life/workaholic zone”.
I’ve also done a bootstrapped very successful startup while both having a life/taking vacations and often looking to the outside world like a slacker. It’s fine (and actually good) to get away from work as long as you’re there to do what needs to be done when the demand arises (even if that’s at night or on a weekend).
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I’ve been at companies that demanded long hours and it’s funny how quickly the marginal return of those additional hours approaches zero. If you’re talking mindless sweatshops then fine more hours for the same pay is great but for knowledge workers there’s a max output per week and in my experience it’s reached way before you get to the “no life/workaholic zone”.
I’ve also done a bootstrapped very successful startup while both having a life/taking vacations and often looking to the outside world like a slacker. It’s fine (and actually good) to get away from work as long as you’re there to do what needs to be done when the demand arises (even if that’s at night or on a weekend).
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Brian is right. While the owner is slaving away with the workers (and I suggest at a minimum of 110%) then your argument holds. But that does not justify asking people to work beyond their terms & conditions. It does not justify asking them to work for free, or for working at a rediculous hourly rate by paying a medium to high “salary” then expecting a 60hour week that works out to minimum wage when you do the $/hour conversion.
And I REALLY do not get why you slummed it while working at MS. Sure it’s admirable not ripping off your employer with execssive charges, but a hostle? Why didn’t you just take a park bench? That was simply dumb – not admirable (unless it was in the late 1970’s)
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Brian is right. While the owner is slaving away with the workers (and I suggest at a minimum of 110%) then your argument holds. But that does not justify asking people to work beyond their terms & conditions. It does not justify asking them to work for free, or for working at a rediculous hourly rate by paying a medium to high “salary” then expecting a 60hour week that works out to minimum wage when you do the $/hour conversion.
And I REALLY do not get why you slummed it while working at MS. Sure it’s admirable not ripping off your employer with execssive charges, but a hostle? Why didn’t you just take a park bench? That was simply dumb – not admirable (unless it was in the late 1970’s)
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First of all people who work 40hrs/week are not slackers. They’re good workers (assuming they really do work during that time). Second if you got paid $35000/year and assuming you worked 60hrs/week, that works out to about $11.5/hr. I think I can make that working as a McDonald’s manager, which I don’t think requires more than a high school education. When you consider that a stressful job also shortens your life, I pity Calacanis’ employees.
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First of all people who work 40hrs/week are not slackers. They’re good workers (assuming they really do work during that time). Second if you got paid $35000/year and assuming you worked 60hrs/week, that works out to about $11.5/hr. I think I can make that working as a McDonald’s manager, which I don’t think requires more than a high school education. When you consider that a stressful job also shortens your life, I pity Calacanis’ employees.
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Is it some sort of brilliant analysis to say “don’t hire unproductive workers.”? What’s next, a post warning against hiring drug addicts and felons? Is a light going to switch on for people reading a post like this, or something?
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Is it some sort of brilliant analysis to say “don’t hire unproductive workers.”? What’s next, a post warning against hiring drug addicts and felons? Is a light going to switch on for people reading a post like this, or something?
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“ascerbic.” good word. I worked “serendipitously” into my post.
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“ascerbic.” good word. I worked “serendipitously” into my post.
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As an administrative support professional working in the Midwest, I have to agree with Jason, Mike, and Robert. This is how business works in America. I may get a lot of downtime at my job, but I am so on top of my job that my boss knows he’s lucky I don’t leave for him to try to find someone half as capable as I am. Yet the actual employees of the company work like dogs. I’ve had my share of 12+ hour days and I will do them again, whenever I am needed. I love what I do, I love even more that I’m not doing it for AT&T, Microsoft, Walmart, or any other huge company. Participating in the building of a company is half the fun of working hard and being good at what you do.
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As an administrative support professional working in the Midwest, I have to agree with Jason, Mike, and Robert. This is how business works in America. I may get a lot of downtime at my job, but I am so on top of my job that my boss knows he’s lucky I don’t leave for him to try to find someone half as capable as I am. Yet the actual employees of the company work like dogs. I’ve had my share of 12+ hour days and I will do them again, whenever I am needed. I love what I do, I love even more that I’m not doing it for AT&T, Microsoft, Walmart, or any other huge company. Participating in the building of a company is half the fun of working hard and being good at what you do.
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Robert, get a clue. You measure people by the work they produce, not by the number of hours they put in.
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Robert, get a clue. You measure people by the work they produce, not by the number of hours they put in.
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Christopher has made perhaps the best point in all these posts. It seems whatever grabs the most headlines or clicks is what Scoble “belives” in at that moment.
I’m amazed more and more about the whoring Robert will do to get the attention he feels he deserves.
I would rather work for a boss that believed in spending time with families then a hard driving workaholic…. Also how do we define these “slackers?” Do they finish their assigned tasks early and are waiting on others? Are the others not working effiecntly and posting on sites and slashdot and appearing productive vs. being productive.
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Christopher has made perhaps the best point in all these posts. It seems whatever grabs the most headlines or clicks is what Scoble “belives” in at that moment.
I’m amazed more and more about the whoring Robert will do to get the attention he feels he deserves.
I would rather work for a boss that believed in spending time with families then a hard driving workaholic…. Also how do we define these “slackers?” Do they finish their assigned tasks early and are waiting on others? Are the others not working effiecntly and posting on sites and slashdot and appearing productive vs. being productive.
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You’d do well not to conflate productivity with long hours. The link between the two is far from clear. The mistake is in thinking that a productive worker gets 25% more done in an hour than an unproductive one, when in fact the difference can be hundreds of percent. This applies in almost all occupations but is even more true when it comes to coding – which can be quite taxing.
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You’d do well not to conflate productivity with long hours. The link between the two is far from clear. The mistake is in thinking that a productive worker gets 25% more done in an hour than an unproductive one, when in fact the difference can be hundreds of percent. This applies in almost all occupations but is even more true when it comes to coding – which can be quite taxing.
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Since when did having balance in your life (balance is the word Calacanis used, he only did the strike through after everyone complained) make you a slacker? I struggle to maintain balance in my life but I work f**king long hours Scoble. I suppose you compensate by combining the time with your son and work. I never once defended slackers and that you’d suggest that I did speaks volumes for you and your low opinion of human beings. Here’s hoping you don’t end up doing an Om.
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Since when did having balance in your life (balance is the word Calacanis used, he only did the strike through after everyone complained) make you a slacker? I struggle to maintain balance in my life but I work f**king long hours Scoble. I suppose you compensate by combining the time with your son and work. I never once defended slackers and that you’d suggest that I did speaks volumes for you and your low opinion of human beings. Here’s hoping you don’t end up doing an Om.
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For the record I smoke and Jason hasn’t canned me yet 🙂 He does give me a hard time about though, which is actually for my own good really. When I do finally successfully quit (I’ve tried twice this year) Jason you owe me a bonus! 😛
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For the record I smoke and Jason hasn’t canned me yet 🙂 He does give me a hard time about though, which is actually for my own good really. When I do finally successfully quit (I’ve tried twice this year) Jason you owe me a bonus! 😛
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I gotta agree w/ #9– how much should these people really work for $35k a year? To them its just a job UNLESS they have equity then all that hard works means something. The startup “work-until-you-drop” mentality applies to people who are directly benefiting from a growth in the value of the company. If you are working at Mahalo and pulling 60hr weeks it’s not like you are going to be promoted to VP next year or given a nice chunk of the site, maybe you’ll get a bonus, but probably not. More likely is you do a good job there, don’t kill yourself, and then trade up to a position at another company in a few years, just like everyone else.
I write this as I take a break from (willingly) working at my non-startup job on Saturday afternoon, so I would probably be good Calacanis hire, but that’s my own fault.
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I gotta agree w/ #9– how much should these people really work for $35k a year? To them its just a job UNLESS they have equity then all that hard works means something. The startup “work-until-you-drop” mentality applies to people who are directly benefiting from a growth in the value of the company. If you are working at Mahalo and pulling 60hr weeks it’s not like you are going to be promoted to VP next year or given a nice chunk of the site, maybe you’ll get a bonus, but probably not. More likely is you do a good job there, don’t kill yourself, and then trade up to a position at another company in a few years, just like everyone else.
I write this as I take a break from (willingly) working at my non-startup job on Saturday afternoon, so I would probably be good Calacanis hire, but that’s my own fault.
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how hard was was Jason working when he was racing around with you in his small penis compensating Corvette a couple of weeks ago? Why wasn’t be at the office?
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how hard was was Jason working when he was racing around with you in his small penis compensating Corvette a couple of weeks ago? Why wasn’t be at the office?
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I spent several years working for a slave driver in a small company. It worked fine till the economy picked up – at which point the entire workforce left within 6 months.
Now I have a real job in a real company. And a real life.
And I ain’t going back, slacker or not.
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I spent several years working for a slave driver in a small company. It worked fine till the economy picked up – at which point the entire workforce left within 6 months.
Now I have a real job in a real company. And a real life.
And I ain’t going back, slacker or not.
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Working more and more hours that equals less pay seems to be more the norm than the exception, the constant brainwashing that you should work hard with long hours to have material things that ultimately are worthless.
Time is the one thing that can never be regained and lost time with the family and friends is more important than the message that corporate America attempts to convince us we should all do.
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Working more and more hours that equals less pay seems to be more the norm than the exception, the constant brainwashing that you should work hard with long hours to have material things that ultimately are worthless.
Time is the one thing that can never be regained and lost time with the family and friends is more important than the message that corporate America attempts to convince us we should all do.
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Hire people who have some writing skills? acerbic?
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Hire people who have some writing skills? acerbic?
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Try being a bootstrapped startup founder with a day job (thinking me, Thomas Hawk, etc). I don’t know about Thomas’ situation… But there’s no ‘healthy balance’ in my equation and that’s just the way it’s going to be for a while. Especially after the seed round happens. I’ve managed three very different startups including my latest. Each one has demanded long hours, unusual amounts of dedication and a lack of tolerance to slackers. And, Mr. Scoble… I stayed at a hostel the night of the London Geek Dinner. Saved a helluva lot of money. Good thing to. I’d have had a hard time paying that Picadilly rate for a hotel I saw two hours in.
Love the startup life!
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Try being a bootstrapped startup founder with a day job (thinking me, Thomas Hawk, etc). I don’t know about Thomas’ situation… But there’s no ‘healthy balance’ in my equation and that’s just the way it’s going to be for a while. Especially after the seed round happens. I’ve managed three very different startups including my latest. Each one has demanded long hours, unusual amounts of dedication and a lack of tolerance to slackers. And, Mr. Scoble… I stayed at a hostel the night of the London Geek Dinner. Saved a helluva lot of money. Good thing to. I’d have had a hard time paying that Picadilly rate for a hotel I saw two hours in.
Love the startup life!
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I think it’s funny that people are taking Robert seriously when he says anyone who works a standard 40 hour week or wants to spend time with their family is a ‘slacker’.
It’s so obviously a ludicrous claim and runs counter to many views Scoble has espoused on his blog in the past, that I’m surprised anyone takes it for anything but the joke it was intended to be.
For a start, I’m sure Robert has read ‘Peopleware’, and so knows the mountain of evidence that shows that working long hours is not sustainable and certainly not productive for more than a couple of months at the most. After that, you’re just working long hours – you’re not getting more done than the 40 hour week ‘slacker’. In fact, you’re likely to be less productive as you are more error-prone, etc. As I always like to say about the Peopleware authors, they did the math so we don’t have to.
I’m just worried that I don’t get whatever Robert’s joke actually was. But he can’t possibly be serious in this case, because that would be so amazingly dumb.
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I think it’s funny that people are taking Robert seriously when he says anyone who works a standard 40 hour week or wants to spend time with their family is a ‘slacker’.
It’s so obviously a ludicrous claim and runs counter to many views Scoble has espoused on his blog in the past, that I’m surprised anyone takes it for anything but the joke it was intended to be.
For a start, I’m sure Robert has read ‘Peopleware’, and so knows the mountain of evidence that shows that working long hours is not sustainable and certainly not productive for more than a couple of months at the most. After that, you’re just working long hours – you’re not getting more done than the 40 hour week ‘slacker’. In fact, you’re likely to be less productive as you are more error-prone, etc. As I always like to say about the Peopleware authors, they did the math so we don’t have to.
I’m just worried that I don’t get whatever Robert’s joke actually was. But he can’t possibly be serious in this case, because that would be so amazingly dumb.
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Steve: #25: Jason and I were driving around at 9 p.m. in the evening. I stayed in his office with his team until 7 p.m. Who said that driving around wasn’t working? After all, he got a lot of PR out of that too.
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Steve: #25: Jason and I were driving around at 9 p.m. in the evening. I stayed in his office with his team until 7 p.m. Who said that driving around wasn’t working? After all, he got a lot of PR out of that too.
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I have a lot more to say back, I’ll write up another post about this.
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I have a lot more to say back, I’ll write up another post about this.
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@33. As opposed to 9 p.m. in the morning? Stayed until 7:00 PM??? WOW! Now THAT’S burning the midnight oil!. I guess Jason subscribes to the “any PR is good PR” theory.
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@33. As opposed to 9 p.m. in the morning? Stayed until 7:00 PM??? WOW! Now THAT’S burning the midnight oil!. I guess Jason subscribes to the “any PR is good PR” theory.
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I have seen my fair share of startups. Even now I work 14 hours a day. But you cannot call people who want to spend quality time as slackers. I have seen many people who work just 8 hours a day and who are more productive than people who slog 14-16 hours a day. This kinda characterization as people who don’t slog 14-16 hours a day as slackers is like Bush’s assertion that anyone who doesn’t agree to his view of the world, are terrorists. I have seen so many people who had worked 8 hours a day (leaving home exactly at 5 PM)and produced more work than those people who live in the company. Efficiency is not directly proportional to the number of hours logged. Period. If startup founders cannot understand it, it is their own funeral.
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I have seen my fair share of startups. Even now I work 14 hours a day. But you cannot call people who want to spend quality time as slackers. I have seen many people who work just 8 hours a day and who are more productive than people who slog 14-16 hours a day. This kinda characterization as people who don’t slog 14-16 hours a day as slackers is like Bush’s assertion that anyone who doesn’t agree to his view of the world, are terrorists. I have seen so many people who had worked 8 hours a day (leaving home exactly at 5 PM)and produced more work than those people who live in the company. Efficiency is not directly proportional to the number of hours logged. Period. If startup founders cannot understand it, it is their own funeral.
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Sharing hotel rooms on business trips is ridiculous (unless you work with your wife or a hottie whose home-life is unsatisfying).
In the US, stay at a Mircotel or Motel-6 (where you can often get two rooms cheaper than one room elsewhere).
Work from home as many days as possible.
Check e-mail only thrice per day: noon, 4:00pm, and first thing in the AM.
File your expense reports as soon as possible, every time. Don’t forget to include every driving mile and every hotel tip. There’s nothing worse than lending your employer money, interest free.
The real key to personal success is spending considerably less than you earn and saving/investing the difference in common-sense things (e.g. not penny stocks or start-ups)…
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Sharing hotel rooms on business trips is ridiculous (unless you work with your wife or a hottie whose home-life is unsatisfying).
In the US, stay at a Mircotel or Motel-6 (where you can often get two rooms cheaper than one room elsewhere).
Work from home as many days as possible.
Check e-mail only thrice per day: noon, 4:00pm, and first thing in the AM.
File your expense reports as soon as possible, every time. Don’t forget to include every driving mile and every hotel tip. There’s nothing worse than lending your employer money, interest free.
The real key to personal success is spending considerably less than you earn and saving/investing the difference in common-sense things (e.g. not penny stocks or start-ups)…
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fyi, it’s “acerbic,” not “ascerbic.”
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fyi, it’s “acerbic,” not “ascerbic.”
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IMHO, it’s not about “slackers”, it’s about those who aren’t playing the team game. You don’t have to pull 100 hour weeks to be productive – and this is not advocacy for 4-hour nonsense either.
Practice common sense, have a team with passion, and lead them toward a goal. It ain’t too tricky.
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IMHO, it’s not about “slackers”, it’s about those who aren’t playing the team game. You don’t have to pull 100 hour weeks to be productive – and this is not advocacy for 4-hour nonsense either.
Practice common sense, have a team with passion, and lead them toward a goal. It ain’t too tricky.
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WOW I guess the comments here are not as bad at techcrunch but really people read the original article. I work for a small business owner who works harder then anyone so when she ask to work late I know I am not the only one working hard. My boss expects me to work hard and I do why should I expect to coast?…
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WOW I guess the comments here are not as bad at techcrunch but really people read the original article. I work for a small business owner who works harder then anyone so when she ask to work late I know I am not the only one working hard. My boss expects me to work hard and I do why should I expect to coast?…
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@40 You’ll have to forgive Arrington. He went to law school.
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@40 You’ll have to forgive Arrington. He went to law school.
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Ha ha .. Techneers are now following the celebrity footsteps for publicity.
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Ha ha .. Techneers are now following the celebrity footsteps for publicity.
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I think it’s kind of BS that startup founders expect their employees to work like mad but we all know that many of the people at the bottom or middle never get anything even if they pour sweat and tears into their work. Only the people at the top will benefit. Not saying all founders are like that but I would say many are less inclined to give out stock so easily these days and when you give years of your life for a few thousand shares compared to millions and hundreds of thousands to the top people, one easily becomes disenchanted with the whole process.
Sure, people can work like crazy. But here’s a thought. reward the top performers like crazy, as you reward others at the top.
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I think it’s kind of BS that startup founders expect their employees to work like mad but we all know that many of the people at the bottom or middle never get anything even if they pour sweat and tears into their work. Only the people at the top will benefit. Not saying all founders are like that but I would say many are less inclined to give out stock so easily these days and when you give years of your life for a few thousand shares compared to millions and hundreds of thousands to the top people, one easily becomes disenchanted with the whole process.
Sure, people can work like crazy. But here’s a thought. reward the top performers like crazy, as you reward others at the top.
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firing smokers is good business decision in any case! at least one thing I agree with 😉
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firing smokers is good business decision in any case! at least one thing I agree with 😉
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I could not agree more with you Jason & most of Mike’s points he has made. There are lot of idiots out there who feel you can do this without compromising how much time you can spend with your family. If anyone thinks you can work 9-5 and make a success then they need their heads examining. I have worked 12 hour days for nearly a year now and then I get home and blog, I read all the latest news of the day, keep involved, twitter / etc – it all takes stupid amounts of time – and without it we would not have got to the position we are now.
sent from: fav.or.it [FID39983]
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I could not agree more with you Jason & most of Mike’s points he has made. There are lot of idiots out there who feel you can do this without compromising how much time you can spend with your family. If anyone thinks you can work 9-5 and make a success then they need their heads examining. I have worked 12 hour days for nearly a year now and then I get home and blog, I read all the latest news of the day, keep involved, twitter / etc – it all takes stupid amounts of time – and without it we would not have got to the position we are now.
sent from: fav.or.it [FID39983]
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I love it when people comment that Robert tricked them into reading a dumb post with a great headline. C’mon, if you didn’t find a reward in coming here, you’d stop falling for it. (Counter theory: There is no Robert Scoble. An evil genius named Christopher Coulter has created the Scoble persona in an elaborate plot to provide a forum for his own rants.)
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I love it when people comment that Robert tricked them into reading a dumb post with a great headline. C’mon, if you didn’t find a reward in coming here, you’d stop falling for it. (Counter theory: There is no Robert Scoble. An evil genius named Christopher Coulter has created the Scoble persona in an elaborate plot to provide a forum for his own rants.)
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Jason is spot on. I run a small emerging technology company in the UK and its no environment for those who cant cope with an “all hands on deck” mentality and 3am Caffine fueled working.
As for smokers, just don’t hire them in the first place! They clearly have a death wish, they do take more breaks and it looks really bad when customers turn up and you see nicotine junkies loitering outside the office doors.
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Jason is spot on. I run a small emerging technology company in the UK and its no environment for those who cant cope with an “all hands on deck” mentality and 3am Caffine fueled working.
As for smokers, just don’t hire them in the first place! They clearly have a death wish, they do take more breaks and it looks really bad when customers turn up and you see nicotine junkies loitering outside the office doors.
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My life is worth more than $35K. Maybe yours isn’t… ?
Penny pinching for startups is common sense. No prob. If you don’t do it, you’re dumb.
But the rank-and-file also won’t get the (potential, mind you) big rewards at the end of it all. Expecting the same commitment and obsessiveness out of the “little guy” (i.e. working until 3 a.m.) for naught but $30 – $35K is just evil…crushes morale, and dooms your company to high-turnover and sky-high recruiting costs, because eventually the word will get out “Don’t work at *comany name here* they’re evil!”
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My life is worth more than $35K. Maybe yours isn’t… ?
Penny pinching for startups is common sense. No prob. If you don’t do it, you’re dumb.
But the rank-and-file also won’t get the (potential, mind you) big rewards at the end of it all. Expecting the same commitment and obsessiveness out of the “little guy” (i.e. working until 3 a.m.) for naught but $30 – $35K is just evil…crushes morale, and dooms your company to high-turnover and sky-high recruiting costs, because eventually the word will get out “Don’t work at *comany name here* they’re evil!”
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Having a seinor post filed by someone with such poor social skills doesnt help a start up as well.
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Having a seinor post filed by someone with such poor social skills doesnt help a start up as well.
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Re $400 hotel room — there are (still) a lot of folks at Microsoft who try to stay in relatively inexpensive hotel rooms.
Family and slacker are not synonymous. Yes, family does take up time that once would have been spent at work. As we get older, we, I hope, learn to focus more, to make the most of every minute no matter where it is spent. I’d certainly rather work with someone who busts their hump at work ten solid hours a day and then goes home to be renewed with family than someone who is present but not deeply engaged for 15 hours.
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Re $400 hotel room — there are (still) a lot of folks at Microsoft who try to stay in relatively inexpensive hotel rooms.
Family and slacker are not synonymous. Yes, family does take up time that once would have been spent at work. As we get older, we, I hope, learn to focus more, to make the most of every minute no matter where it is spent. I’d certainly rather work with someone who busts their hump at work ten solid hours a day and then goes home to be renewed with family than someone who is present but not deeply engaged for 15 hours.
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Firing people for not working during their lunchbreaks? Jesus, he’s lucky America has third-world labour laws. In Europe that would be a lawsuit at the very least.
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Firing people for not working during their lunchbreaks? Jesus, he’s lucky America has third-world labour laws. In Europe that would be a lawsuit at the very least.
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What are the companies which do not have A holes?
How do you find them? advice needed.
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What are the companies which do not have A holes?
How do you find them? advice needed.
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@63 Unfortunately, it’s hard to know before you get hired and, if you got into a slave-pit like the kind of purgatory some people believe a startup “should” be.
However, Googling for every mention and blog-post about a company before you accept a job offer can really prevent you from making that sort of mistake.
For example, 37Signals just made a very favorable impression on all prospective employees when they openly opposed underpaying & overworking their people.
I, for one, would accept a job with them before working for a company run by a soul-crusher any day. Even if the soul-crusher paid more…
And since happy, passionate, and productive employees can make (or break, if there is a lack of them) a company, the soul-crushers will start to catch on…eventually.
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@63 Unfortunately, it’s hard to know before you get hired and, if you got into a slave-pit like the kind of purgatory some people believe a startup “should” be.
However, Googling for every mention and blog-post about a company before you accept a job offer can really prevent you from making that sort of mistake.
For example, 37Signals just made a very favorable impression on all prospective employees when they openly opposed underpaying & overworking their people.
I, for one, would accept a job with them before working for a company run by a soul-crusher any day. Even if the soul-crusher paid more…
And since happy, passionate, and productive employees can make (or break, if there is a lack of them) a company, the soul-crushers will start to catch on…eventually.
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Although I haven’t met Calacanis, all I’ve read about him, including the foregoing, leads me to believe that he’s the asshole you warn people not to tolerate.
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Although I haven’t met Calacanis, all I’ve read about him, including the foregoing, leads me to believe that he’s the asshole you warn people not to tolerate.
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“You measure people by the work they produce, not by the number of hours they put in.”
Right on.
“What are the companies which do not have A holes?
How do you find them? advice needed.”
I’m currently at a web start-up, BizUnite. We have a “no a holes policy” and so far, it’s worked! It can be done!
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“You measure people by the work they produce, not by the number of hours they put in.”
Right on.
“What are the companies which do not have A holes?
How do you find them? advice needed.”
I’m currently at a web start-up, BizUnite. We have a “no a holes policy” and so far, it’s worked! It can be done!
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“Jason also told me about two employees who’d be outside smoking while the rest of the company was working hard during lunches. He fired those two. Why? They weren’t team players”
Actually, that shows very poor management skills. The right thing would have been to pull the employees aside & discuss the matter with them. In addition, the whole point of a lunch is to take a break & shouldn’t count against the employees.
I may smoke but there’s not a person in my company that would question my productivity because of it. I’ve seen people do a lot worse, start-up or not, such as chatting on the phone with friends, sending countless personal emails, wasting time on social networks, checking their eBay auctions, etc. I think there were probably other factors at play with the employees as well.
Comments like that are one of reasons I largely stopped reading tech blogs…
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“Jason also told me about two employees who’d be outside smoking while the rest of the company was working hard during lunches. He fired those two. Why? They weren’t team players”
Actually, that shows very poor management skills. The right thing would have been to pull the employees aside & discuss the matter with them. In addition, the whole point of a lunch is to take a break & shouldn’t count against the employees.
I may smoke but there’s not a person in my company that would question my productivity because of it. I’ve seen people do a lot worse, start-up or not, such as chatting on the phone with friends, sending countless personal emails, wasting time on social networks, checking their eBay auctions, etc. I think there were probably other factors at play with the employees as well.
Comments like that are one of reasons I largely stopped reading tech blogs…
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If I were fired for what I did during my lunch break, I’d sue my boss for all he has.
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If I were fired for what I did during my lunch break, I’d sue my boss for all he has.
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When I worked at MS Canada, slacking off was just not part of the company culture. There was always so much exciting stuff to do, that slacking off rarely crossed my mind. Despite being the corporate behemoth that it is, its rare that anyone take a flight first class, or books an expensive hotel room. I know I didn’t when on tour, and neither did my colleagues.
Jason has some excellent points in his article to maximize cost efficiency when cash flow is tight, but I have to say that there’s a fine line between setting a productive organizational mindset, and being an autocratic boss. I admit that there’s a lot of signal behind the noise, yet, personal PR plays a very important part in how the public perceived Jason’s comments.
Dev Basu
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When I worked at MS Canada, slacking off was just not part of the company culture. There was always so much exciting stuff to do, that slacking off rarely crossed my mind. Despite being the corporate behemoth that it is, its rare that anyone take a flight first class, or books an expensive hotel room. I know I didn’t when on tour, and neither did my colleagues.
Jason has some excellent points in his article to maximize cost efficiency when cash flow is tight, but I have to say that there’s a fine line between setting a productive organizational mindset, and being an autocratic boss. I admit that there’s a lot of signal behind the noise, yet, personal PR plays a very important part in how the public perceived Jason’s comments.
Dev Basu
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