Hey, if you’re gonna screw up, don’t make a little teeny mistake that you can sweep under the carpet and pretend you didn’t make. No, go out and prove yourself an idiot in a big way!!!
That’s what I did today when I wrote about .NET’s moves to share source with developers.
The reason I made the mistake? I saw all these headlines saying that .NET was being open sourced. It fit into the story I wanted to hear. After all Java is open sourced. Flex is open sourced (although someone just pointed out that Adobe isn’t yet accepting submissions).
But I didn’t really do my homework before posting this morning.
Truth is .NET isn’t being open sourced. Microsoft is not taking source code submissions from the developer community. No sirree.
Also, I didn’t really grok the impact on Microsoft developers. Over and over I’ve been getting hate mail today (and hate comments).
So, to correct my mistakes here’s a few things:
1. .NET is NOT being open sourced. It’s being shared sourced. So developers can see the code but can’t change it like they could on true open source projects.
2. For developers on Microsoft’s toolset this is a huge deal because it’ll help them figure out what’s going on inside .NET much better than before.
3. This isn’t the first time that .NET source was opened up, either. Developers, in my comments, have been making that point all day long.
Anyway, since I’m a .NET idiot you might want to check out what other experts are saying about these moves over on TechMeme.
I’ve also been posting the smarter .net posts over on my link blog.
Scobleizer 
This is why I’m unapologetic about being a Scoble fan.
We all make mistakes – it’s how we deal with them that makes the man. Admitting the mistake, making amends, and pointing people in good directions (in this case, to folks with more in-depth knowledge on the issue), are great ways to undo any damage done.
In the long run, this dust-up brought a lot of attention to the fact that this code is being cracked open for developers to get a peek at and understand, which certainly isn’t a bad thing.
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This is why I’m unapologetic about being a Scoble fan.
We all make mistakes – it’s how we deal with them that makes the man. Admitting the mistake, making amends, and pointing people in good directions (in this case, to folks with more in-depth knowledge on the issue), are great ways to undo any damage done.
In the long run, this dust-up brought a lot of attention to the fact that this code is being cracked open for developers to get a peek at and understand, which certainly isn’t a bad thing.
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You could quit working and become a critic ! Be strong go forward and make a few mistakes ! You always admit your mistakes ! Look at Ford they Bought Jaguar years ago still have not admitted mistake!
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You could quit working and become a critic ! Be strong go forward and make a few mistakes ! You always admit your mistakes ! Look at Ford they Bought Jaguar years ago still have not admitted mistake!
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Hi Robert,
Having read your post with a little salt yesterday I’m gald to see this today. People are a little harsh when you appear to attack their “favourite” whether it’s apple, ms, linux, java or whatever – you have to be ready for that *grin*.
My only problem really is the suggestion that something’s not worth doing (or not a big deal) if you are not the first (or one of the first) to do it (as was pointed out Microsoft are not the last to share source by a long stretch)… To put it in familiar terms – neither you or I started blogging back at day “dot”. There were people who did it a lot earlier (and in some cases better) than you – and you have been doing it far longer than I… Does this make either of our blogs irrelevant or “no big deal”? Obviously not in your case (my blog is only in there to personalise it to me and make my soap box a little more solid *grin*) so obviously not being the first horse across the line matters a little less in technology and blogging (and many other things) than in horse racing!
First ain’t always best – just quickest!
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Hi Robert,
Having read your post with a little salt yesterday I’m gald to see this today. People are a little harsh when you appear to attack their “favourite” whether it’s apple, ms, linux, java or whatever – you have to be ready for that *grin*.
My only problem really is the suggestion that something’s not worth doing (or not a big deal) if you are not the first (or one of the first) to do it (as was pointed out Microsoft are not the last to share source by a long stretch)… To put it in familiar terms – neither you or I started blogging back at day “dot”. There were people who did it a lot earlier (and in some cases better) than you – and you have been doing it far longer than I… Does this make either of our blogs irrelevant or “no big deal”? Obviously not in your case (my blog is only in there to personalise it to me and make my soap box a little more solid *grin*) so obviously not being the first horse across the line matters a little less in technology and blogging (and many other things) than in horse racing!
First ain’t always best – just quickest!
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It takes a big man to admit he’s made a big mess and you handled this perfectly. Thanks for the correction.
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It takes a big man to admit he’s made a big mess and you handled this perfectly. Thanks for the correction.
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Not everything in Flex source is public. I am not sure why but it’s frustrating to walk the source only to find some files missing.
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Not everything in Flex source is public. I am not sure why but it’s frustrating to walk the source only to find some files missing.
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Robert,sorry,i know that is OT but i signal to you (and other TOP us bloggers) in everyway the Free Burma! day:
http://www.free-burma.org
Wired also make a post: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/bloggers-for-bu.html
Thank you.
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Robert,sorry,i know that is OT but i signal to you (and other TOP us bloggers) in everyway the Free Burma! day:
http://www.free-burma.org
Wired also make a post: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/bloggers-for-bu.html
Thank you.
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Don’t think that just because there isn’t a public “Bugzilla” type site, or a publicly accessible source control system that developers will not be submitting patches to Microsoft that will be incorporated into future releases 😉
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Don’t think that just because there isn’t a public “Bugzilla” type site, or a publicly accessible source control system that developers will not be submitting patches to Microsoft that will be incorporated into future releases 😉
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Hey Rob, they can be nasty sometimes huh?
No wonder why we hate them so much.
Anyways, to the point…
Too little too late, we already distrust them.
Even if it was all open source and they took submissions from the people.
Two words: F*CK THEM!
Btw, why go to a lock-in party when you can be free to explore the world at will?
And to switch at will when convenient?
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Hey Rob, they can be nasty sometimes huh?
No wonder why we hate them so much.
Anyways, to the point…
Too little too late, we already distrust them.
Even if it was all open source and they took submissions from the people.
Two words: F*CK THEM!
Btw, why go to a lock-in party when you can be free to explore the world at will?
And to switch at will when convenient?
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Yeah if I was you I would consider not blogging for a while. Your to quick to jump the gun that is why your getting the hate mail. I wonder if they are this bad.
Got this from gizmodo
From: Josh Jennings dezimonster@hotmail.com Subject: Hey great zune coverage Date: October 3, 2007 7:14:34 PM PDT To: Brian Lam blam@gizmodo.com ‘cept for one thing…you proved to be nothing but an apple biased asshole! it’s the likes of you that I would love to see their hands broken so they could never “blog” again…if thats what you could even call your third rate “postings” grow the fuck up apple boy! but wait maybe you can’t so long as steve job’s hard withered dick is sitting comfortably in your tight asian asshole. Really you guys wonder why you weren’t invited to the zune event last night…posts like yours are the reason why. one day you will learn but until then we will have to deal with your whiny ass apple kissing attitude about everything which btw is getting really old. Throw the banhammer down on who you would like because they actually criticize you, and actually stand up to your retardedness but remember while everyone else out there is kissing your nasty ass just to leave yet another ass kissing comment it’s people like me who have your email address and it’s people like me who will tell you really how it is…fucktard!
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Yeah if I was you I would consider not blogging for a while. Your to quick to jump the gun that is why your getting the hate mail. I wonder if they are this bad.
Got this from gizmodo
From: Josh Jennings dezimonster@hotmail.com Subject: Hey great zune coverage Date: October 3, 2007 7:14:34 PM PDT To: Brian Lam blam@gizmodo.com ‘cept for one thing…you proved to be nothing but an apple biased asshole! it’s the likes of you that I would love to see their hands broken so they could never “blog” again…if thats what you could even call your third rate “postings” grow the fuck up apple boy! but wait maybe you can’t so long as steve job’s hard withered dick is sitting comfortably in your tight asian asshole. Really you guys wonder why you weren’t invited to the zune event last night…posts like yours are the reason why. one day you will learn but until then we will have to deal with your whiny ass apple kissing attitude about everything which btw is getting really old. Throw the banhammer down on who you would like because they actually criticize you, and actually stand up to your retardedness but remember while everyone else out there is kissing your nasty ass just to leave yet another ass kissing comment it’s people like me who have your email address and it’s people like me who will tell you really how it is…fucktard!
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Hey Robert – no biggie on the mistake. I can relate to making the leap and “hoping” Microsoft might be “going all the way”. We are just glad you noticed this announcement that is clearly a win for devs!
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Hey Robert – no biggie on the mistake. I can relate to making the leap and “hoping” Microsoft might be “going all the way”. We are just glad you noticed this announcement that is clearly a win for devs!
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There goes the confession 😛
P.S. Wassup with that triple ! in the beginning? Nitpickin me.
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There goes the confession 😛
P.S. Wassup with that triple ! in the beginning? Nitpickin me.
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There was another factual error in the original post
Microsoft is not behind Adobe & java to do this. The CRT(C/C++ libraries), MFC and ATL source code have been shipped with VS installation for atleast 10 years.
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There was another factual error in the original post
Microsoft is not behind Adobe & java to do this. The CRT(C/C++ libraries), MFC and ATL source code have been shipped with VS installation for atleast 10 years.
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Hey Scobleizer,
Don’t feel like an idiot. Microsoft called me and positioned this as open source. That’s why I wrote my blog and used the “open source” cause it’s not. However, they are claiming that it is. My complete post is here:
http://www.whurley.com/blog/2007/10/opennet-microso.html
imho Microsoft has pulled a fast one on everyone in an attempt to get press. If you Google it you’ll see that it would appear that they used the words “open source” while communicating with the press, and cleverly leaving themselves a way out if called on it by people (i.e. nothing written down). In fact Scott G titled his blog in the same semi-deceptive way:
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/03/releasing-the-source-code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx
Doesn’t “releasing the source code” imply “open source”? When I talked to Microsoft folks about this they called it “open source”. Again, Google the news and I think you’ll see every journalist referring to this used the term “open source”. Sorry, but they’re clearly implying that this is open source and then trying to back peddle after they’ve picked up the big social media coverage.
Also, you’re not an idiot. 🙂
Best,
whurley
http://whurley.com
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Hey Scobleizer,
Don’t feel like an idiot. Microsoft called me and positioned this as open source. That’s why I wrote my blog and used the “open source” cause it’s not. However, they are claiming that it is. My complete post is here:
http://www.whurley.com/blog/2007/10/opennet-microso.html
imho Microsoft has pulled a fast one on everyone in an attempt to get press. If you Google it you’ll see that it would appear that they used the words “open source” while communicating with the press, and cleverly leaving themselves a way out if called on it by people (i.e. nothing written down). In fact Scott G titled his blog in the same semi-deceptive way:
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/03/releasing-the-source-code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx
Doesn’t “releasing the source code” imply “open source”? When I talked to Microsoft folks about this they called it “open source”. Again, Google the news and I think you’ll see every journalist referring to this used the term “open source”. Sorry, but they’re clearly implying that this is open source and then trying to back peddle after they’ve picked up the big social media coverage.
Also, you’re not an idiot. 🙂
Best,
whurley
http://whurley.com
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Whurley, did you notice that even Microsoft-hating slashdotters are ripping you apart for spreading lies on this issue?
You claim Microsoft “contacted” you, as if you are of some importance, so why don’t you reveal who you really are? Scoble may not be an idiot, but you certainly are, judging by your slashdot story regarding this matter.
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Whurley, did you notice that even Microsoft-hating slashdotters are ripping you apart for spreading lies on this issue?
You claim Microsoft “contacted” you, as if you are of some importance, so why don’t you reveal who you really are? Scoble may not be an idiot, but you certainly are, judging by your slashdot story regarding this matter.
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Hi Brit,
Why you wanna be a hater? 😉
Just kidding. My name is William Hurley. Scobleizer and many other people in open source/social media know me and they know me as ‘whurley’. Come to think of it, I think almost everyone knows me as ‘whurley’. So please don’t imply that I’m hiding who I am by posting under that name. If you want more details about me, there are a few on TalkBMC and O’Reilly:
TalkBMC – http://opensville.org
O’Reilly – http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2688
As far as “spreading lies on this issue” that’s really wrong of folks to say. Microsoft called this open source. In fact, the title of the mail in my inbox is:
“Important: Microsoft & Open Source Announcement”
They also referred to it as “open source” in the voice mail they left me the night before. This is why I put the words “open source” in quotes in my post…cause we all know it’s not. If you read the post it is very clear what my opinion is. If that’s not good enough for you here are a couple of quotes from names you might trust more than me:
“Will Hurley captures the move accurately” – Matt Asay (http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9790795-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad)
“William Hurley says Microsoft is going “open source,” and those quote marks are his point.” – Dana Blankenhorn (http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1493)
Besides, truth be known it’s not like the world used my post for the 2,035 news articles and blogs that currently discuss this as “open source”. If they do, then I guess I’m “of some importance” after all. 🙂
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Hi Brit,
Why you wanna be a hater? 😉
Just kidding. My name is William Hurley. Scobleizer and many other people in open source/social media know me and they know me as ‘whurley’. Come to think of it, I think almost everyone knows me as ‘whurley’. So please don’t imply that I’m hiding who I am by posting under that name. If you want more details about me, there are a few on TalkBMC and O’Reilly:
TalkBMC – http://opensville.org
O’Reilly – http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2688
As far as “spreading lies on this issue” that’s really wrong of folks to say. Microsoft called this open source. In fact, the title of the mail in my inbox is:
“Important: Microsoft & Open Source Announcement”
They also referred to it as “open source” in the voice mail they left me the night before. This is why I put the words “open source” in quotes in my post…cause we all know it’s not. If you read the post it is very clear what my opinion is. If that’s not good enough for you here are a couple of quotes from names you might trust more than me:
“Will Hurley captures the move accurately” – Matt Asay (http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9790795-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad)
“William Hurley says Microsoft is going “open source,” and those quote marks are his point.” – Dana Blankenhorn (http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1493)
Besides, truth be known it’s not like the world used my post for the 2,035 news articles and blogs that currently discuss this as “open source”. If they do, then I guess I’m “of some importance” after all. 🙂
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Whoops, 2 of the links didn’t work. Let me try that again for you:
“Will Hurley captures the move accurately” – Matt Asay – http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9790795-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad
“William Hurley says Microsoft is going “open source,” and those quote marks are his point.” – Dana Blankenhorn – http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1493
Sorry about that,
whurley
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Whoops, 2 of the links didn’t work. Let me try that again for you:
“Will Hurley captures the move accurately” – Matt Asay – http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9790795-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad
“William Hurley says Microsoft is going “open source,” and those quote marks are his point.” – Dana Blankenhorn – http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1493
Sorry about that,
whurley
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Microsoft is doing everything it can to make the Open Source waters “FUDdy.”
Whenever MS uses the words as a positive you have to know they are trying to change the definition to fit what they would like people to know it as.
Other words Microsoft has used to fit their own meaning: Standards, Open, Trust and Security. There are probably a few hundred others that they’ve stolen and repackaged.
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Microsoft is doing everything it can to make the Open Source waters “FUDdy.”
Whenever MS uses the words as a positive you have to know they are trying to change the definition to fit what they would like people to know it as.
Other words Microsoft has used to fit their own meaning: Standards, Open, Trust and Security. There are probably a few hundred others that they’ve stolen and repackaged.
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Open sourcing the code of .NET is practically useless, since developers can use disassemblers to watch at the original code and figure out what’s happening “behind”.
Opening the source code of .NEET could be important from a legal point of view, since it would help developers to create free and legal projects taking advantages from the expertise and investments from the Micro$soft development departments, but this would be against the main belief of the company.
For whom looking for good, mature, comparable and open source alternative to .NET I strongly suggest to check the Mono project (http://www.mono-project.com), ruled by Novell under the supervision of Miguel de Icaza.
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Open sourcing the code of .NET is practically useless, since developers can use disassemblers to watch at the original code and figure out what’s happening “behind”.
Opening the source code of .NEET could be important from a legal point of view, since it would help developers to create free and legal projects taking advantages from the expertise and investments from the Micro$soft development departments, but this would be against the main belief of the company.
For whom looking for good, mature, comparable and open source alternative to .NET I strongly suggest to check the Mono project (http://www.mono-project.com), ruled by Novell under the supervision of Miguel de Icaza.
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