Mike Arrington says that Google has been showing around a new social networking tool that’s aimed at competing with Facebook.
Why is Google so concerned by Facebook?
Easy, Google is the world’s best intention concentration engine.
Think about it. If you intend to do something, like buy a car, where are you going to go? Google!
And, aren’t you concentrated into a community of other people who also intend to buy a car? Yes!
Name another system that does a better job of concentrating intention the way that Google does. I can’t.
Well, until Facebook came along.
Now Facebook has several ways to track intention. They have a great set of groups that you can join. If you were intending to do something, like buy a car, wouldn’t you want to talk with other people who’ve bought the car you’re looking at? Absolutely.
Did you know that if you click an interest that someone has put in that you can see all the other members on Facebook who also have that interest?
That’s a concentration effect that Google doesn’t have.
Or, do a search for “Saturn Aura.” I find a bunch of groups by Saturn car owners. That’s another way that people are concentrated.
Anyway, all this concentration of people into groups really pisses off Google. Why? Because THAT is what advertisers BUY on Google!
Google was getting used to having the only advertising story where some company like General Motors could buy audiences that were concentrated into little buckets. Now Facebook is coming on strong and, so, Google needed to jump in with an alternative.
Can’t wait to see it.
Scobleizer 
Do you think google-product will prove to have just been reactionary?
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Do you think google-product will prove to have just been reactionary?
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Mmm…Google Shared Stuff that i talk about here, is a first step? Google buy a little startup about social networking but i don’t remember the name…Orkut will be integrated?
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Mmm…Google Shared Stuff that i talk about here, is a first step? Google buy a little startup about social networking but i don’t remember the name…Orkut will be integrated?
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Oh. You just concentrated my mind wonderfully.
I am going back to Facebook immediately and turning OFF that ability to scrape and search me and all my features and networks in Google.
I now realize how we can all Fight the Power.
Thanks, Scoble!
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Oh. You just concentrated my mind wonderfully.
I am going back to Facebook immediately and turning OFF that ability to scrape and search me and all my features and networks in Google.
I now realize how we can all Fight the Power.
Thanks, Scoble!
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Prokofy: even if you turn that stuff all off Facebook can still put ads in your face based on your social behaviors, which is really what this is all about.
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Prokofy: even if you turn that stuff all off Facebook can still put ads in your face based on your social behaviors, which is really what this is all about.
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Google already has Orkut as a social networking tool. Does it make sense to have another one?
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Google already has Orkut as a social networking tool. Does it make sense to have another one?
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Rishi: I’d expect that Orkut’s network would play a big role in anything Google does on this front.
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Rishi: I’d expect that Orkut’s network would play a big role in anything Google does on this front.
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Scoble, I don’t mind if Facebook puts ads in my face. Ads don’t bother them. Perhaps I might wish to ummm study computer science at Devries some time in my life har har.
What I do want to see is a force emerge to fight Google insanity. Here’s my blog about this. I have a bigger vision, a vision where buying is by cooperative networks not just anonymous data scrapes and loss of privacy. It won’t be perfect. But it will create some dent in the Borg.
“We can sing to our babies without your damn cell phone”
http://slrecord.typepad.com/the_second_life_record/2007/09/op-ed-we-can-si.html
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Scoble, I don’t mind if Facebook puts ads in my face. Ads don’t bother them. Perhaps I might wish to ummm study computer science at Devries some time in my life har har.
What I do want to see is a force emerge to fight Google insanity. Here’s my blog about this. I have a bigger vision, a vision where buying is by cooperative networks not just anonymous data scrapes and loss of privacy. It won’t be perfect. But it will create some dent in the Borg.
“We can sing to our babies without your damn cell phone”
http://slrecord.typepad.com/the_second_life_record/2007/09/op-ed-we-can-si.html
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Ads don’t bother *me* if they represent a revenue model for how to keep the service running.
The point is that we have Google already slurping the intention and attention economy, scraping, and profiting from it in ways that make us uncomfortable, from Wikipediocy to loss of personal privacy. So if there are TWO powers doing this competing, it gives us more choice and actually more control at our level.
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Ads don’t bother *me* if they represent a revenue model for how to keep the service running.
The point is that we have Google already slurping the intention and attention economy, scraping, and profiting from it in ways that make us uncomfortable, from Wikipediocy to loss of personal privacy. So if there are TWO powers doing this competing, it gives us more choice and actually more control at our level.
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Oh and now that I’ve read the TechCrunch thing, I see what Google is essentially saying is that, yeah, we’ll scrape you to death against your will at times, but now we will pour back some of that stuff for you to use in your social network page and widget thingies. And that’s just not good enough. We need something alternative to Google that quells some of the rapaciousness of it, a bulwark against it, if you will, that enables people to take more control over their user-generated content (which includes not just coded widgets but people’s picks and comments and such) and not just let these companies mine it for their own wealth and aggrandizement.
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Oh and now that I’ve read the TechCrunch thing, I see what Google is essentially saying is that, yeah, we’ll scrape you to death against your will at times, but now we will pour back some of that stuff for you to use in your social network page and widget thingies. And that’s just not good enough. We need something alternative to Google that quells some of the rapaciousness of it, a bulwark against it, if you will, that enables people to take more control over their user-generated content (which includes not just coded widgets but people’s picks and comments and such) and not just let these companies mine it for their own wealth and aggrandizement.
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a couple thoughts:
the problem with interests in communities is that you only see people that are interested inn those thins not everyone that has experience with them. If I drive a crappy car I’m not going to join a community for them maybe if I hated it enough I might but I’d probably not be welcome.
Also I think that google has just as much ability to concintrate users if not more. They can not only read all your emails and instant messages but they can read through your google docs too.
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a couple thoughts:
the problem with interests in communities is that you only see people that are interested inn those thins not everyone that has experience with them. If I drive a crappy car I’m not going to join a community for them maybe if I hated it enough I might but I’d probably not be welcome.
Also I think that google has just as much ability to concintrate users if not more. They can not only read all your emails and instant messages but they can read through your google docs too.
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Photar, oh I’m the first to say that social media=social facism. It’s cloying and claustrophobic. FB has this awful smarmy feel to it with some of the groups, networks, games, etc. BUT….I’m only touting it as a *corrective* to the massive data scrape that is the opposite extreme. I’m only suggesting that it helps mitigate it, and find a happier mean between cooperation and privacy.
Um, Google isn’t going to read my email. Yahoo is. And again. That’s the ticket. The only way for us to have a modicum of privacy/control is to have choice, and hope they never stop cooperating.
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Photar, oh I’m the first to say that social media=social facism. It’s cloying and claustrophobic. FB has this awful smarmy feel to it with some of the groups, networks, games, etc. BUT….I’m only touting it as a *corrective* to the massive data scrape that is the opposite extreme. I’m only suggesting that it helps mitigate it, and find a happier mean between cooperation and privacy.
Um, Google isn’t going to read my email. Yahoo is. And again. That’s the ticket. The only way for us to have a modicum of privacy/control is to have choice, and hope they never stop cooperating.
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It doesn’t surprise me that Google wants to get deeper into social networking. As you point out they are all about getting the eyes so some of them will look at the ads. But I wonder how well they will do. I see site after site come along and just not be sticky. I have to wonder how many of the people creating these sites really use them themselves. Isn’t part of the Facebook success story that they created something they and their friends wanted rather than creating something for other people? For a social networking site to work I believe it has to be created and run by people who live it. Google seems a bit introverted as a company. Can they live it? (It being an open social site.)
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It doesn’t surprise me that Google wants to get deeper into social networking. As you point out they are all about getting the eyes so some of them will look at the ads. But I wonder how well they will do. I see site after site come along and just not be sticky. I have to wonder how many of the people creating these sites really use them themselves. Isn’t part of the Facebook success story that they created something they and their friends wanted rather than creating something for other people? For a social networking site to work I believe it has to be created and run by people who live it. Google seems a bit introverted as a company. Can they live it? (It being an open social site.)
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Craigslist is the worlds best intention concentration engine, not google.
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Craigslist is the worlds best intention concentration engine, not google.
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Anatoly, I like Craigslist better, too, but it’s so much tinier compared to Google or even Facebook, how can you say it’s the world’s anything? And is what I search for or what I hope to date or put for sale the world’s best intention aggregator?
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Anatoly, I like Craigslist better, too, but it’s so much tinier compared to Google or even Facebook, how can you say it’s the world’s anything? And is what I search for or what I hope to date or put for sale the world’s best intention aggregator?
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I think what Scoble meant was that Google has the largest global collection, the ‘database of intentions’ written of in “Search” by John Battelle.
I don’t think Facebook can compare, despite its fan base. Why? You don’t look for vacuum cleaners or other stuff on Facebook.
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I think what Scoble meant was that Google has the largest global collection, the ‘database of intentions’ written of in “Search” by John Battelle.
I don’t think Facebook can compare, despite its fan base. Why? You don’t look for vacuum cleaners or other stuff on Facebook.
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Craigslist isnt any better at understanding intention than amazon. Presumably you use them both when youre looking to buy stuff or hookup in the case of craigslit.
A problem with google is that your search term doesnt tell intention unless maybe youre searching froogle.
I really do t see why google shouldnt be able to scrape all the bits they have on me together and use it to sell advertising to me. More relevent advertising is a good thing.
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Craigslist isnt any better at understanding intention than amazon. Presumably you use them both when youre looking to buy stuff or hookup in the case of craigslit.
A problem with google is that your search term doesnt tell intention unless maybe youre searching froogle.
I really do t see why google shouldnt be able to scrape all the bits they have on me together and use it to sell advertising to me. More relevent advertising is a good thing.
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Scoble is right Google is all about the attention economy and if your attention is being diverted by Facebook Google is losing potential ad revenue .
Facebook do a great Job of Keeping you on thier site and going back for more ….”entertainment” thats how they will monetise social networking .
On Google you come and go on Facebook you tend to hang around for 5 mins
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Scoble is right Google is all about the attention economy and if your attention is being diverted by Facebook Google is losing potential ad revenue .
Facebook do a great Job of Keeping you on thier site and going back for more ….”entertainment” thats how they will monetise social networking .
On Google you come and go on Facebook you tend to hang around for 5 mins
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Submitted with no further comment:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=facebook
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Submitted with no further comment:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=facebook
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This is a good chance for someone to upset Google as “the” provider of search results. I would love to see someone else come along that can do great search without the stupid ads.
I quit using Google in 2004 and haven’t looked back. They mean nothing to me and millions of others, too.
Google is riding an artificial wave and the shore is fast approaching. There is limited stuff you can do with ads. Yes, they can get a few more years out of this, but… I, for one, just don’t understand ads and why people would click on them. I block ads most of the time, so I rarely see them. I don’t like being tracked with cookies, etc, so I not only block ads, I also turn off referrer logging. I recommend others try it as well and enjoy a clutter-free Internet experience.
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This is a good chance for someone to upset Google as “the” provider of search results. I would love to see someone else come along that can do great search without the stupid ads.
I quit using Google in 2004 and haven’t looked back. They mean nothing to me and millions of others, too.
Google is riding an artificial wave and the shore is fast approaching. There is limited stuff you can do with ads. Yes, they can get a few more years out of this, but… I, for one, just don’t understand ads and why people would click on them. I block ads most of the time, so I rarely see them. I don’t like being tracked with cookies, etc, so I not only block ads, I also turn off referrer logging. I recommend others try it as well and enjoy a clutter-free Internet experience.
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This social network is also based on gmail accounts and not OpenID http://urltea.com/1kj5
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This social network is also based on gmail accounts and not OpenID http://urltea.com/1kj5
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Robert – in nearly 10 years of working the “infomediary” angle – I must say that this single post has stated it most eloquently and clearly – the aggregation of intention – very nice. Do you mind if I user it? You are absolutely correct that Google would be very interested in it. Search also aggregates consumers, but without direct consumer input – it’s derived by what they are doing. I all it a remant of the search, as opposed to a consumer making a conscious choice of which groups they wish to join.
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Robert – in nearly 10 years of working the “infomediary” angle – I must say that this single post has stated it most eloquently and clearly – the aggregation of intention – very nice. Do you mind if I user it? You are absolutely correct that Google would be very interested in it. Search also aggregates consumers, but without direct consumer input – it’s derived by what they are doing. I all it a remant of the search, as opposed to a consumer making a conscious choice of which groups they wish to join.
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I don’t want to be concentrated. I don’t want to be aggregated. I don’t want to be targeted. I don’t want my existence defined by what groups I belong to. I don’t want my attention grabbed. I don’t want servers wasting their cycles or my pixels guessing at what I might want, no matter how refined their methodologies. If they’re guessing, I’m not interested.
Instead I want ways to communicate to sellers my *actual intention* to buy something; but to do that on *my* terms (which may include *not* telling them anything more than the minimal data required to establish trust, which will in most cases not include my name), and ways for them to respond to those intentions without grabbing any more information about me that I am willing to release on a mutually trustful basis.
This system does not yet exist. But a few of us are working on it. If any of ya’ll want to help, come to http://projectvrm.org.
More background here:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/09/28/go-from-hell/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000035
Rock on,
Doc
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I don’t want to be concentrated. I don’t want to be aggregated. I don’t want to be targeted. I don’t want my existence defined by what groups I belong to. I don’t want my attention grabbed. I don’t want servers wasting their cycles or my pixels guessing at what I might want, no matter how refined their methodologies. If they’re guessing, I’m not interested.
Instead I want ways to communicate to sellers my *actual intention* to buy something; but to do that on *my* terms (which may include *not* telling them anything more than the minimal data required to establish trust, which will in most cases not include my name), and ways for them to respond to those intentions without grabbing any more information about me that I am willing to release on a mutually trustful basis.
This system does not yet exist. But a few of us are working on it. If any of ya’ll want to help, come to http://projectvrm.org.
More background here:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/09/28/go-from-hell/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000035
Rock on,
Doc
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google’s got orkut.com . there are plenty of groups in that network
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google’s got orkut.com . there are plenty of groups in that network
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