OK, let me set the scene here. Three weeks ago this event didn’t exist. 300 developers are here in San Francisco. All voluntarily. All organized themselves.
I’ve already met a Microsoft employee. A Yahoo employee. A Verisign employee.
But where’s the Apple employees?
Here are 300 developers who WANT to help Apple make its iPhone even better. Yet Apple’s secrecy and lack of care for developers demonstrates itself by not showing up.
Apple should remember 1989. It had a massive lead with the Macintosh. It ended up with, what, five percent market share.
Why? At least in part because it told developers to go pound sand.
History is repeating itself.
This is a VERY geeky room. Developers only (I’m one of only a handful of people who aren’t a developer here).
Watch Flickr for photos from the event.
Watch Twitters from the event. I’ll put up some TwitterGrams (short, recorded audio pieces sent to Twitter) shortly.
If you’re a developer you’ll want to be at this event. It’s a remarkable event already. The conversations here are flowing big time. I haven’t seen this kind of developer energy for a long time.
Where’s Apple? Microsoft is here.
If this were a Microsoft event the evangelism team would be here in force with T-shirts, stickers, free dev tools, tons of geeks who could help people figure out technical issues, and more. Look at how Microsoft dealt with Maker Faire, they sent the guy who builds Bill Gates’ keynote demos to help out. THAT is how Microsoft got 90% market share.
Where’s Apple?
UPDATE: John Dowdell notes that there may be a few Apple employees there, but they aren’t telling anyone they are from Apple. That changes his opinion of Apple, for the worse.
Scobleizer 
While i agree apple should be there, I think this is a slightly different situation. There is no dev kit because the dev is done via the web. What are they going to do? Hand out copies of bbedit? Teach people XHTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript? It is all open standards based? There are no APIs to explain or help with (this is an issue but a totally different one. Also, it doesn’t sound like MS is there in any official capacity, just that an MS employee showed up. Lastly, MS has 90% in desktop/portable OS market share. No amount of developer support has kept Sony from handing them there ass in the game console market. And heck, Nintendo seems to be giving both them and Sony a pants down spanking at this point and Nintendo is the least dev friendly of the bunch. You are right developer support is important, but I am not sure it is the golden ticket to the chocolate factory you make it out to be. Perhaps if MS had taken a little less time with external developers on the XBox 360 and used that on internal development they wouldn’t have had to extend the warranty to 3 years? There is a lot to be said for focusing on making a quality product first.
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While i agree apple should be there, I think this is a slightly different situation. There is no dev kit because the dev is done via the web. What are they going to do? Hand out copies of bbedit? Teach people XHTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript? It is all open standards based? There are no APIs to explain or help with (this is an issue but a totally different one. Also, it doesn’t sound like MS is there in any official capacity, just that an MS employee showed up. Lastly, MS has 90% in desktop/portable OS market share. No amount of developer support has kept Sony from handing them there ass in the game console market. And heck, Nintendo seems to be giving both them and Sony a pants down spanking at this point and Nintendo is the least dev friendly of the bunch. You are right developer support is important, but I am not sure it is the golden ticket to the chocolate factory you make it out to be. Perhaps if MS had taken a little less time with external developers on the XBox 360 and used that on internal development they wouldn’t have had to extend the warranty to 3 years? There is a lot to be said for focusing on making a quality product first.
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While i agree apple should be there, I think this is a slightly different situation. There is no dev kit because the dev is done via the web. What are they going to do? Hand out copies of bbedit? Teach people XHTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript? It is all open standards based? There are no APIs to explain or help with (this is an issue but a totally different one. Also, it doesn’t sound like MS is there in any official capacity, just that an MS employee showed up. Lastly, MS has 90% in desktop/portable OS market share. No amount of developer support has kept Sony from handing them there ass in the game console market. And heck, Nintendo seems to be giving both them and Sony a pants down spanking at this point and Nintendo is the least dev friendly of the bunch. You are right developer support is important, but I am not sure it is the golden ticket to the chocolate factory you make it out to be. Perhaps if MS had taken a little less time with external developers on the XBox 360 and used that on internal development they wouldn’t have had to extend the warranty to 3 years? There is a lot to be said for focusing on making a quality product first.
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Mr. Scoble… I feel compelled to “heap on” in the hopes someone with some sense at Apple’s feeling oddly compassionate while reading your entry above…
Apple could, should, but doesn’t facilitate conversations outside of the WWDC. I’m three years into my ADC Select Membership. I’ve played by their NDA requirements letter and spirit.
They use some really good WebCrossing forum software for their support channels. They could VERY easily create a monitored space for developers to collaborate on prerelease stuff (like Leopard, ZFS, the phone). As it is, unless you’re one of those who check out a week from work and lay down several thousand dollars… you might as well be working with a vow of silence.
This is my one and only gripe about Apple (outside DRM).
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Mr. Scoble… I feel compelled to “heap on” in the hopes someone with some sense at Apple’s feeling oddly compassionate while reading your entry above…
Apple could, should, but doesn’t facilitate conversations outside of the WWDC. I’m three years into my ADC Select Membership. I’ve played by their NDA requirements letter and spirit.
They use some really good WebCrossing forum software for their support channels. They could VERY easily create a monitored space for developers to collaborate on prerelease stuff (like Leopard, ZFS, the phone). As it is, unless you’re one of those who check out a week from work and lay down several thousand dollars… you might as well be working with a vow of silence.
This is my one and only gripe about Apple (outside DRM).
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Mr. Scoble… I feel compelled to “heap on” in the hopes someone with some sense at Apple’s feeling oddly compassionate while reading your entry above…
Apple could, should, but doesn’t facilitate conversations outside of the WWDC. I’m three years into my ADC Select Membership. I’ve played by their NDA requirements letter and spirit.
They use some really good WebCrossing forum software for their support channels. They could VERY easily create a monitored space for developers to collaborate on prerelease stuff (like Leopard, ZFS, the phone). As it is, unless you’re one of those who check out a week from work and lay down several thousand dollars… you might as well be working with a vow of silence.
This is my one and only gripe about Apple (outside DRM).
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“they sent the guy who builds Bill Gates’ keynote demos to help out”
“Nuff said.
Who on earth would ever want to be ‘helped’ out by a guy who helps BillG deliver some of the most awful keynotes in technology biz year after year? I’d rather take Prozac, thank you.
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“they sent the guy who builds Bill Gates’ keynote demos to help out”
“Nuff said.
Who on earth would ever want to be ‘helped’ out by a guy who helps BillG deliver some of the most awful keynotes in technology biz year after year? I’d rather take Prozac, thank you.
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“they sent the guy who builds Bill Gates’ keynote demos to help out”
“Nuff said.
Who on earth would ever want to be ‘helped’ out by a guy who helps BillG deliver some of the most awful keynotes in technology biz year after year? I’d rather take Prozac, thank you.
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ever use pocket IE on a Windows CE smartphone? plenty of developers, evangelists and MSDN articles behind that crap. and gosh knows how many “t-shirts and stickers.” it got Microsoft where exactly?
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ever use pocket IE on a Windows CE smartphone? plenty of developers, evangelists and MSDN articles behind that crap. and gosh knows how many “t-shirts and stickers.” it got Microsoft where exactly?
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ever use pocket IE on a Windows CE smartphone? plenty of developers, evangelists and MSDN articles behind that crap. and gosh knows how many “t-shirts and stickers.” it got Microsoft where exactly?
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anona: Bill might be boring but the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing. It’s pretty obvious you’ve never been to one.
meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share. When I started at Microsoft it was zero. Now they own a significant market share, and, yes, developers play a HUGE part in that (it’s why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations).
Microsoft’s mobile developer conference earlier this year had thousands of attendees.
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anona: Bill might be boring but the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing. It’s pretty obvious you’ve never been to one.
meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share. When I started at Microsoft it was zero. Now they own a significant market share, and, yes, developers play a HUGE part in that (it’s why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations).
Microsoft’s mobile developer conference earlier this year had thousands of attendees.
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anona: Bill might be boring but the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing. It’s pretty obvious you’ve never been to one.
meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share. When I started at Microsoft it was zero. Now they own a significant market share, and, yes, developers play a HUGE part in that (it’s why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations).
Microsoft’s mobile developer conference earlier this year had thousands of attendees.
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MrSexyPants: there’s a bunch to learn on iPhone development. How do you handle the event that gets fired when you turn the phone from portrait to landscape mode, for instance. How to make your Web pages more readable, and more useable.
There’s a ton that people were talking about at the dev camp tonight.
Apple should be there to listen to developers, too, and hear what kinds of things developers WANT to do. It’s pretty clear that Apple is working on more developer platforms and tools (lots of rumors of those going around) so Apple should make sure they know what developers want to do with it.
Oh, and tons of bugs are getting talked about here too. So that’s invaluable information for the Safari team to hear about.
Finally, much of this is just relationship work. The best developers might make good Apple hires, for instance, in the future. But if Apple employees aren’t here they won’t see who’s the smartest in the room.
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MrSexyPants: there’s a bunch to learn on iPhone development. How do you handle the event that gets fired when you turn the phone from portrait to landscape mode, for instance. How to make your Web pages more readable, and more useable.
There’s a ton that people were talking about at the dev camp tonight.
Apple should be there to listen to developers, too, and hear what kinds of things developers WANT to do. It’s pretty clear that Apple is working on more developer platforms and tools (lots of rumors of those going around) so Apple should make sure they know what developers want to do with it.
Oh, and tons of bugs are getting talked about here too. So that’s invaluable information for the Safari team to hear about.
Finally, much of this is just relationship work. The best developers might make good Apple hires, for instance, in the future. But if Apple employees aren’t here they won’t see who’s the smartest in the room.
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MrSexyPants: there’s a bunch to learn on iPhone development. How do you handle the event that gets fired when you turn the phone from portrait to landscape mode, for instance. How to make your Web pages more readable, and more useable.
There’s a ton that people were talking about at the dev camp tonight.
Apple should be there to listen to developers, too, and hear what kinds of things developers WANT to do. It’s pretty clear that Apple is working on more developer platforms and tools (lots of rumors of those going around) so Apple should make sure they know what developers want to do with it.
Oh, and tons of bugs are getting talked about here too. So that’s invaluable information for the Safari team to hear about.
Finally, much of this is just relationship work. The best developers might make good Apple hires, for instance, in the future. But if Apple employees aren’t here they won’t see who’s the smartest in the room.
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Ever been to WWDC? NO? I tought so.
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Ever been to WWDC? NO? I tought so.
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Ever been to WWDC? NO? I tought so.
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Alok: I can’t afford to go to the WWDC. I just bought two iPhones and a third one is on the way. You must think I’m rich.
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Alok: I can’t afford to go to the WWDC. I just bought two iPhones and a third one is on the way. You must think I’m rich.
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Alok: I can’t afford to go to the WWDC. I just bought two iPhones and a third one is on the way. You must think I’m rich.
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Please put a link up to the venue and info about the event!
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Please put a link up to the venue and info about the event!
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Please put a link up to the venue and info about the event!
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Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
http://barcamp.org/iPhoneDevCamp
🙂
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Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
http://barcamp.org/iPhoneDevCamp
🙂
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Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
http://barcamp.org/iPhoneDevCamp
🙂
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“the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing”
Geez. I asked you a while back what if anything you could remember of the last BillG CES demo (especially in comparison to Jobs’ Macworld counterpart), I remember you saying something like, not much. And you were right, nobody does.
I watch his keynotes in video. They are awful. He has no understanding of timing, pacing, build-up, progressive disclosure, focus, distillation…in short the art of telling stories.
Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
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“the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing”
Geez. I asked you a while back what if anything you could remember of the last BillG CES demo (especially in comparison to Jobs’ Macworld counterpart), I remember you saying something like, not much. And you were right, nobody does.
I watch his keynotes in video. They are awful. He has no understanding of timing, pacing, build-up, progressive disclosure, focus, distillation…in short the art of telling stories.
Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
LikeLike
“the demos he shows off at CES are pretty amazing”
Geez. I asked you a while back what if anything you could remember of the last BillG CES demo (especially in comparison to Jobs’ Macworld counterpart), I remember you saying something like, not much. And you were right, nobody does.
I watch his keynotes in video. They are awful. He has no understanding of timing, pacing, build-up, progressive disclosure, focus, distillation…in short the art of telling stories.
Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
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> Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
It’s much easier to look up on Google when someone tells you where they actually are and the name of the event 🙂
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> Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
It’s much easier to look up on Google when someone tells you where they actually are and the name of the event 🙂
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> Jeremiah, you know how to use Google, right?
It’s much easier to look up on Google when someone tells you where they actually are and the name of the event 🙂
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Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations”.
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Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations”.
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Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporations”.
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We do something similar here in the UK. There is a developer conference hosted my Microsoft but completely organised and run by the community, it’s called Developer Day (http://www.developerday.co.uk) it’s one of the best conferences of the year! Go community!
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We do something similar here in the UK. There is a developer conference hosted my Microsoft but completely organised and run by the community, it’s called Developer Day (http://www.developerday.co.uk) it’s one of the best conferences of the year! Go community!
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We do something similar here in the UK. There is a developer conference hosted my Microsoft but completely organised and run by the community, it’s called Developer Day (http://www.developerday.co.uk) it’s one of the best conferences of the year! Go community!
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Priit,
Perhaps Robert can answer this question much better, but as a Pocket PC owner, I agree with Robert that there are many great Windows Mobile apps out there. If you want to imply that there is no one killer app for the Windows Mobile platform (i.e. the equivalent of Office for Windows XP/Vista), then you are correct, but there are many wonderful useful programs out there that cater to almost every need. A great example is Pocket Informant.
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Priit,
Perhaps Robert can answer this question much better, but as a Pocket PC owner, I agree with Robert that there are many great Windows Mobile apps out there. If you want to imply that there is no one killer app for the Windows Mobile platform (i.e. the equivalent of Office for Windows XP/Vista), then you are correct, but there are many wonderful useful programs out there that cater to almost every need. A great example is Pocket Informant.
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Priit,
Perhaps Robert can answer this question much better, but as a Pocket PC owner, I agree with Robert that there are many great Windows Mobile apps out there. If you want to imply that there is no one killer app for the Windows Mobile platform (i.e. the equivalent of Office for Windows XP/Vista), then you are correct, but there are many wonderful useful programs out there that cater to almost every need. A great example is Pocket Informant.
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So, if I hear you correctly, Microsoft and Yahoo and Verisign have _official_ representatives there?
Because that’s what you’re asking Apple to do. BTW, a few days ago Apple made public all their iPhone dev material covered at WWDC.
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So, if I hear you correctly, Microsoft and Yahoo and Verisign have _official_ representatives there?
Because that’s what you’re asking Apple to do. BTW, a few days ago Apple made public all their iPhone dev material covered at WWDC.
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So, if I hear you correctly, Microsoft and Yahoo and Verisign have _official_ representatives there?
Because that’s what you’re asking Apple to do. BTW, a few days ago Apple made public all their iPhone dev material covered at WWDC.
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maybe Microsoft employees should try to make Microsoft better …
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maybe Microsoft employees should try to make Microsoft better …
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maybe Microsoft employees should try to make Microsoft better …
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… leave behind the religious fanatisism folks! And please get over microsoft please would you? Its so much bigger than you!
and Scoble … i dont think this event was Apple organized. Its a community event, the community arranged it. It would have been generous of Apple people to come and support the event, but really it isn’t in their responsibilites as such. There can be a lot of community work going on all arond the world and Apple can’t really show up at every single one of them saying … ” 😀 we made this thing ur so crazy about … wanna see some more cool features of it? A class or two? APIs? please? will you buy a 4th one??” … so yes, to sum it up i’d say its not a big deal:) peace.
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… leave behind the religious fanatisism folks! And please get over microsoft please would you? Its so much bigger than you!
and Scoble … i dont think this event was Apple organized. Its a community event, the community arranged it. It would have been generous of Apple people to come and support the event, but really it isn’t in their responsibilites as such. There can be a lot of community work going on all arond the world and Apple can’t really show up at every single one of them saying … ” 😀 we made this thing ur so crazy about … wanna see some more cool features of it? A class or two? APIs? please? will you buy a 4th one??” … so yes, to sum it up i’d say its not a big deal:) peace.
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… leave behind the religious fanatisism folks! And please get over microsoft please would you? Its so much bigger than you!
and Scoble … i dont think this event was Apple organized. Its a community event, the community arranged it. It would have been generous of Apple people to come and support the event, but really it isn’t in their responsibilites as such. There can be a lot of community work going on all arond the world and Apple can’t really show up at every single one of them saying … ” 😀 we made this thing ur so crazy about … wanna see some more cool features of it? A class or two? APIs? please? will you buy a 4th one??” … so yes, to sum it up i’d say its not a big deal:) peace.
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Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
Comment by anona — July 7, 2007
Would you like some cheese with that Wine.
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Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
Comment by anona — July 7, 2007
Would you like some cheese with that Wine.
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Packaging technology in an enticing form and getting everyone in love with it is about the last thing BillG (or Microsoft, for that matter) knows how to do. Not knowing how to tell stories is what’s killing Microsoft slowly. And you can’t find a better evidence than their keynotes.
Comment by anona — July 7, 2007
Would you like some cheese with that Wine.
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You are half right – great developer tools and a great developer relationship meant Microsoft was able to attract a huge core of developers. But remember the old saying, “The only thing worse than being a Microsoft competitor is being a Microsoft partner.” In the short term Microsoft’s developer pool had a depth and breadth that was awesome. But in the long run Microsoft’s corporate ethics (or rather the lack of corporate ethics) thinned out the pool. The last 5 years of aimlessly thrashing about and rearranging the Titanic’s deck chairs haven’t helped.
Should Apple be at this event? No. Apple has been upfront that (at least for now) the way to develop for the iPhone is through the web. All the information is available already and doesn’t need Apple employees. Apple’s presence there would only serve as a focus of complaint that the iPhone isn’t open to developers. We all know developers aren’t happy about that and we all know that (at in the short term at least) isn’t going to change.
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You are half right – great developer tools and a great developer relationship meant Microsoft was able to attract a huge core of developers. But remember the old saying, “The only thing worse than being a Microsoft competitor is being a Microsoft partner.” In the short term Microsoft’s developer pool had a depth and breadth that was awesome. But in the long run Microsoft’s corporate ethics (or rather the lack of corporate ethics) thinned out the pool. The last 5 years of aimlessly thrashing about and rearranging the Titanic’s deck chairs haven’t helped.
Should Apple be at this event? No. Apple has been upfront that (at least for now) the way to develop for the iPhone is through the web. All the information is available already and doesn’t need Apple employees. Apple’s presence there would only serve as a focus of complaint that the iPhone isn’t open to developers. We all know developers aren’t happy about that and we all know that (at in the short term at least) isn’t going to change.
LikeLike
You are half right – great developer tools and a great developer relationship meant Microsoft was able to attract a huge core of developers. But remember the old saying, “The only thing worse than being a Microsoft competitor is being a Microsoft partner.” In the short term Microsoft’s developer pool had a depth and breadth that was awesome. But in the long run Microsoft’s corporate ethics (or rather the lack of corporate ethics) thinned out the pool. The last 5 years of aimlessly thrashing about and rearranging the Titanic’s deck chairs haven’t helped.
Should Apple be at this event? No. Apple has been upfront that (at least for now) the way to develop for the iPhone is through the web. All the information is available already and doesn’t need Apple employees. Apple’s presence there would only serve as a focus of complaint that the iPhone isn’t open to developers. We all know developers aren’t happy about that and we all know that (at in the short term at least) isn’t going to change.
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Boy, if I was an Apple employee I’d be avoiding that place like the plague. There isn’t a single thing they can offer, it’s all standard web technologies. It’d be a constant barrage of “no APIs, no Flash, Apple sucks”. Now, at the point in the future when there are APIs, Apple will probably be out in force.
—–
At this point I’m personally glad it doesn’t have APIs or Flash. Forces developers to learn and use web “standards” instead of crutching it with proprietary Flash.
—–
Robert, I doubt highly developers had anything to do with the marketshare numbers. Back then the growth was “business” computing and the minute Mr. Business Computing (IBM) handed the ball to Microsoft the game was over. No amount of developers or openness could have changed that. Not even when the Mac came along.
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Boy, if I was an Apple employee I’d be avoiding that place like the plague. There isn’t a single thing they can offer, it’s all standard web technologies. It’d be a constant barrage of “no APIs, no Flash, Apple sucks”. Now, at the point in the future when there are APIs, Apple will probably be out in force.
—–
At this point I’m personally glad it doesn’t have APIs or Flash. Forces developers to learn and use web “standards” instead of crutching it with proprietary Flash.
—–
Robert, I doubt highly developers had anything to do with the marketshare numbers. Back then the growth was “business” computing and the minute Mr. Business Computing (IBM) handed the ball to Microsoft the game was over. No amount of developers or openness could have changed that. Not even when the Mac came along.
LikeLike
Boy, if I was an Apple employee I’d be avoiding that place like the plague. There isn’t a single thing they can offer, it’s all standard web technologies. It’d be a constant barrage of “no APIs, no Flash, Apple sucks”. Now, at the point in the future when there are APIs, Apple will probably be out in force.
—–
At this point I’m personally glad it doesn’t have APIs or Flash. Forces developers to learn and use web “standards” instead of crutching it with proprietary Flash.
—–
Robert, I doubt highly developers had anything to do with the marketshare numbers. Back then the growth was “business” computing and the minute Mr. Business Computing (IBM) handed the ball to Microsoft the game was over. No amount of developers or openness could have changed that. Not even when the Mac came along.
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Hey Scoble,
While I agree that Apple ultimately needs to release a proper SDK, I don’t think one week after the release of the device is a reasonable period to start pronouncing their strategy a long-term failure against MS. You’re just fishing for traffic.
Apple is focusing on nailing their execution. Execution quality is what has always separated Apple from Microsoft. I see no reason to doubt that they’re working on a proper SDK and will release it as soon as it really is rock solid.
Compare Apple’s “secrecy” to Microsoft’s vaporware approach to partnership. I think you could ask all the display OEMs how they feel about Microsoft’s work on the “smart displays” and find a group of companies that would prefer Apple’s “don’t talk until it can ship” approach. (Microsoft’s much-hyped “mira” Smart Displays were canceled before ever going to market and partners like Viewsonic were left with nothing but millions in wasted development). How about the myriad of dropped developer tech in Vista (WinFS anyone?) Did coming out early with promises help anyone interested in using WinFS? No. Would it have been better if nobody ever heard of the failed WinFS effort? Probably yes.
MS loves to talk about the platforms of the future, but seems to come up short on quality in the present. Apple is the inverse. In the consumer electronics world, a great closed product today is a better foundation for the future than buggy crap with an SDK (Windows Mobile).
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Hey Scoble,
While I agree that Apple ultimately needs to release a proper SDK, I don’t think one week after the release of the device is a reasonable period to start pronouncing their strategy a long-term failure against MS. You’re just fishing for traffic.
Apple is focusing on nailing their execution. Execution quality is what has always separated Apple from Microsoft. I see no reason to doubt that they’re working on a proper SDK and will release it as soon as it really is rock solid.
Compare Apple’s “secrecy” to Microsoft’s vaporware approach to partnership. I think you could ask all the display OEMs how they feel about Microsoft’s work on the “smart displays” and find a group of companies that would prefer Apple’s “don’t talk until it can ship” approach. (Microsoft’s much-hyped “mira” Smart Displays were canceled before ever going to market and partners like Viewsonic were left with nothing but millions in wasted development). How about the myriad of dropped developer tech in Vista (WinFS anyone?) Did coming out early with promises help anyone interested in using WinFS? No. Would it have been better if nobody ever heard of the failed WinFS effort? Probably yes.
MS loves to talk about the platforms of the future, but seems to come up short on quality in the present. Apple is the inverse. In the consumer electronics world, a great closed product today is a better foundation for the future than buggy crap with an SDK (Windows Mobile).
LikeLike
Hey Scoble,
While I agree that Apple ultimately needs to release a proper SDK, I don’t think one week after the release of the device is a reasonable period to start pronouncing their strategy a long-term failure against MS. You’re just fishing for traffic.
Apple is focusing on nailing their execution. Execution quality is what has always separated Apple from Microsoft. I see no reason to doubt that they’re working on a proper SDK and will release it as soon as it really is rock solid.
Compare Apple’s “secrecy” to Microsoft’s vaporware approach to partnership. I think you could ask all the display OEMs how they feel about Microsoft’s work on the “smart displays” and find a group of companies that would prefer Apple’s “don’t talk until it can ship” approach. (Microsoft’s much-hyped “mira” Smart Displays were canceled before ever going to market and partners like Viewsonic were left with nothing but millions in wasted development). How about the myriad of dropped developer tech in Vista (WinFS anyone?) Did coming out early with promises help anyone interested in using WinFS? No. Would it have been better if nobody ever heard of the failed WinFS effort? Probably yes.
MS loves to talk about the platforms of the future, but seems to come up short on quality in the present. Apple is the inverse. In the consumer electronics world, a great closed product today is a better foundation for the future than buggy crap with an SDK (Windows Mobile).
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And for the record. Microsoft got to 90% marketshare through a combination of inheriting IBM’s dominance, bullying OEMs into only shipping Windows or they’d lose their license and the post-jobs Apple’s stupid decision to premium price.
Don’t kid yourself. Only a tiny portion of that 90% was earned.
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And for the record. Microsoft got to 90% marketshare through a combination of inheriting IBM’s dominance, bullying OEMs into only shipping Windows or they’d lose their license and the post-jobs Apple’s stupid decision to premium price.
Don’t kid yourself. Only a tiny portion of that 90% was earned.
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And for the record. Microsoft got to 90% marketshare through a combination of inheriting IBM’s dominance, bullying OEMs into only shipping Windows or they’d lose their license and the post-jobs Apple’s stupid decision to premium price.
Don’t kid yourself. Only a tiny portion of that 90% was earned.
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microsoft is like walmart. gosh- i know it’s evil but i just got home from there, where I got an oil change, a toy for a friend’s kid bday, and a bike chain change tool, total= $44. apple is like (insert name of expensive store here), cutting edge but not for the masses, and catering to the masses is part of what got microsoft 90% market share
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microsoft is like walmart. gosh- i know it’s evil but i just got home from there, where I got an oil change, a toy for a friend’s kid bday, and a bike chain change tool, total= $44. apple is like (insert name of expensive store here), cutting edge but not for the masses, and catering to the masses is part of what got microsoft 90% market share
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microsoft is like walmart. gosh- i know it’s evil but i just got home from there, where I got an oil change, a toy for a friend’s kid bday, and a bike chain change tool, total= $44. apple is like (insert name of expensive store here), cutting edge but not for the masses, and catering to the masses is part of what got microsoft 90% market share
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It’s interesting how much revisionism there is about Microsoft.
But I was there at the first Visual Basic Insiders’ Technical Summit. I saw first hand how Microsoft supported the community.
And it showed up when there was only Windows 2.0 and 3.0. Believe me, as developer platforms they were WAY BEHIND where Apple’s iPhone is today.
Microsoft won a TON of corporate business BECAUSE IT WAS FRIENDLY TO DEVELOPERS. Why did that matter? Because corporate developers could build all sorts of interesting applications for their employees.
Remember the Pistachio factory I visited a few years ago? Why did they choose Windows? Because they could easily build apps to manage their factory. Now, scale that out and you can see how Microsoft got a sizeable portion of its market share just because they had better developer tools, a better relationship with the developer community, etc etc.
But they didn’t start with better tools. Those didn’t come until 1993. They DID, however, show up. In Newsgroups. At VBITS. At all sorts of developer events.
Those relationships led to better developer platforms. Led to getting bugs fixed. Led to all sorts of goodness.
Oh, I met a Google executive at the iPhoneDevCamp last night. Doing just what I recommended.
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It’s interesting how much revisionism there is about Microsoft.
But I was there at the first Visual Basic Insiders’ Technical Summit. I saw first hand how Microsoft supported the community.
And it showed up when there was only Windows 2.0 and 3.0. Believe me, as developer platforms they were WAY BEHIND where Apple’s iPhone is today.
Microsoft won a TON of corporate business BECAUSE IT WAS FRIENDLY TO DEVELOPERS. Why did that matter? Because corporate developers could build all sorts of interesting applications for their employees.
Remember the Pistachio factory I visited a few years ago? Why did they choose Windows? Because they could easily build apps to manage their factory. Now, scale that out and you can see how Microsoft got a sizeable portion of its market share just because they had better developer tools, a better relationship with the developer community, etc etc.
But they didn’t start with better tools. Those didn’t come until 1993. They DID, however, show up. In Newsgroups. At VBITS. At all sorts of developer events.
Those relationships led to better developer platforms. Led to getting bugs fixed. Led to all sorts of goodness.
Oh, I met a Google executive at the iPhoneDevCamp last night. Doing just what I recommended.
LikeLike
It’s interesting how much revisionism there is about Microsoft.
But I was there at the first Visual Basic Insiders’ Technical Summit. I saw first hand how Microsoft supported the community.
And it showed up when there was only Windows 2.0 and 3.0. Believe me, as developer platforms they were WAY BEHIND where Apple’s iPhone is today.
Microsoft won a TON of corporate business BECAUSE IT WAS FRIENDLY TO DEVELOPERS. Why did that matter? Because corporate developers could build all sorts of interesting applications for their employees.
Remember the Pistachio factory I visited a few years ago? Why did they choose Windows? Because they could easily build apps to manage their factory. Now, scale that out and you can see how Microsoft got a sizeable portion of its market share just because they had better developer tools, a better relationship with the developer community, etc etc.
But they didn’t start with better tools. Those didn’t come until 1993. They DID, however, show up. In Newsgroups. At VBITS. At all sorts of developer events.
Those relationships led to better developer platforms. Led to getting bugs fixed. Led to all sorts of goodness.
Oh, I met a Google executive at the iPhoneDevCamp last night. Doing just what I recommended.
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John: I agree with you that Microsoft has made many mistakes recently. But the momentum they gained by working with developers in the 1990s makes it that those mistakes really don’t amount to much. Yet.
Apple has a real opportunity right now to make the iPhone something really market dominating. One way to do that is to scale out your efforts beyond your own walls. That’s something Apple hasn’t figured out how to do and, because of that, is leaving opportunity around for its competitors.
Apple executed in 1989 too. They had an OS and hardware design that was so far ahead of its competitors it wasn’t even funny. Much further ahead than iPhone is today.
Will we end up saying 2007 was just like 1989 and that Apple fumbled during the big game?
Apple doesn’t get developers. They do get whizzy UI.
Microsoft eventually will get whizzy UI. The platform that has BOTH third-party developers AND whizzy UI will win and win big in the marketplace.
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John: I agree with you that Microsoft has made many mistakes recently. But the momentum they gained by working with developers in the 1990s makes it that those mistakes really don’t amount to much. Yet.
Apple has a real opportunity right now to make the iPhone something really market dominating. One way to do that is to scale out your efforts beyond your own walls. That’s something Apple hasn’t figured out how to do and, because of that, is leaving opportunity around for its competitors.
Apple executed in 1989 too. They had an OS and hardware design that was so far ahead of its competitors it wasn’t even funny. Much further ahead than iPhone is today.
Will we end up saying 2007 was just like 1989 and that Apple fumbled during the big game?
Apple doesn’t get developers. They do get whizzy UI.
Microsoft eventually will get whizzy UI. The platform that has BOTH third-party developers AND whizzy UI will win and win big in the marketplace.
LikeLike
John: I agree with you that Microsoft has made many mistakes recently. But the momentum they gained by working with developers in the 1990s makes it that those mistakes really don’t amount to much. Yet.
Apple has a real opportunity right now to make the iPhone something really market dominating. One way to do that is to scale out your efforts beyond your own walls. That’s something Apple hasn’t figured out how to do and, because of that, is leaving opportunity around for its competitors.
Apple executed in 1989 too. They had an OS and hardware design that was so far ahead of its competitors it wasn’t even funny. Much further ahead than iPhone is today.
Will we end up saying 2007 was just like 1989 and that Apple fumbled during the big game?
Apple doesn’t get developers. They do get whizzy UI.
Microsoft eventually will get whizzy UI. The platform that has BOTH third-party developers AND whizzy UI will win and win big in the marketplace.
LikeLike
Long term? Look around and see how many more devices run Win Mobile…At its price point and horizontal, consumer positioning iPhone may get to 2% business market share by 2009…for business apps you need verticalizing – like UPS’s DIADs for its drivers, Backberry like devices for traders etc. Apple fans bitch about losing the PC war in 90s to biased IT. The problem is Apple appealed to the graphic designers and librarians in companies but never had anything for accountants, shop floor workers etc..I do not see that changing. But don’t get me wrong as it has shown with iPod the consumer market is large and lucrative…
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Long term? Look around and see how many more devices run Win Mobile…At its price point and horizontal, consumer positioning iPhone may get to 2% business market share by 2009…for business apps you need verticalizing – like UPS’s DIADs for its drivers, Backberry like devices for traders etc. Apple fans bitch about losing the PC war in 90s to biased IT. The problem is Apple appealed to the graphic designers and librarians in companies but never had anything for accountants, shop floor workers etc..I do not see that changing. But don’t get me wrong as it has shown with iPod the consumer market is large and lucrative…
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Long term? Look around and see how many more devices run Win Mobile…At its price point and horizontal, consumer positioning iPhone may get to 2% business market share by 2009…for business apps you need verticalizing – like UPS’s DIADs for its drivers, Backberry like devices for traders etc. Apple fans bitch about losing the PC war in 90s to biased IT. The problem is Apple appealed to the graphic designers and librarians in companies but never had anything for accountants, shop floor workers etc..I do not see that changing. But don’t get me wrong as it has shown with iPod the consumer market is large and lucrative…
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Let me get this straight: about a month after WWDC, a bunch of amateurs hold a “how to develop for iPhone” event, and you knock Apple for not showing up to it?
Any serious Apple developer went to WWDC. There were over 5K attendees this year.
As for Microsoft “outplaying Apple in the long term”, you might want to consider the fact that the iPhone just stopped Windows Media in its tracks: the public just bought a million phones that play Quicktime movies, and will NEVER play VC1. Now, what reason does anyone producing a movie have to go with Microsoft’s codec over the industry standard H.264?
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Let me get this straight: about a month after WWDC, a bunch of amateurs hold a “how to develop for iPhone” event, and you knock Apple for not showing up to it?
Any serious Apple developer went to WWDC. There were over 5K attendees this year.
As for Microsoft “outplaying Apple in the long term”, you might want to consider the fact that the iPhone just stopped Windows Media in its tracks: the public just bought a million phones that play Quicktime movies, and will NEVER play VC1. Now, what reason does anyone producing a movie have to go with Microsoft’s codec over the industry standard H.264?
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Let me get this straight: about a month after WWDC, a bunch of amateurs hold a “how to develop for iPhone” event, and you knock Apple for not showing up to it?
Any serious Apple developer went to WWDC. There were over 5K attendees this year.
As for Microsoft “outplaying Apple in the long term”, you might want to consider the fact that the iPhone just stopped Windows Media in its tracks: the public just bought a million phones that play Quicktime movies, and will NEVER play VC1. Now, what reason does anyone producing a movie have to go with Microsoft’s codec over the industry standard H.264?
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Some Guy: Microsoft goes to lots of events, not just the ones it holds. The events I helped plan in the 1990s weren’t Microsoft only events, yet Microsoft was there.
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Some Guy: Microsoft goes to lots of events, not just the ones it holds. The events I helped plan in the 1990s weren’t Microsoft only events, yet Microsoft was there.
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Some Guy: Microsoft goes to lots of events, not just the ones it holds. The events I helped plan in the 1990s weren’t Microsoft only events, yet Microsoft was there.
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“THAT is how Microsoft got 90% market share.”
Wow, I thought you left the evil empire, and you’re still spinning for them? Microsoft got their market share because they caught IBM’s fumble, and then engaged in illegal practices to tighten their hold over the OEMS. Go read judge Jackson’s findings of fact for the details.
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“THAT is how Microsoft got 90% market share.”
Wow, I thought you left the evil empire, and you’re still spinning for them? Microsoft got their market share because they caught IBM’s fumble, and then engaged in illegal practices to tighten their hold over the OEMS. Go read judge Jackson’s findings of fact for the details.
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“THAT is how Microsoft got 90% market share.”
Wow, I thought you left the evil empire, and you’re still spinning for them? Microsoft got their market share because they caught IBM’s fumble, and then engaged in illegal practices to tighten their hold over the OEMS. Go read judge Jackson’s findings of fact for the details.
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It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.
And you have absolutely no clue about anything. Now I wonder why I’m even talking to “Some Guy.” Go back to Digg.
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It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.
And you have absolutely no clue about anything. Now I wonder why I’m even talking to “Some Guy.” Go back to Digg.
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It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.
And you have absolutely no clue about anything. Now I wonder why I’m even talking to “Some Guy.” Go back to Digg.
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Why is the thinking that Apple (or anyone else) has to have the majority of the market? Apple just pegged a profit of probably >$250M and someone says they are going to lose in the long run? From what? MSFT? Are you kidding? This is about satisfying customers, and they did in spades. MSFT can’t sell Zunes if they gave them away, and now they are not only losing money on the Xbox but taking a $1B charge! I am so tired of hearing about how every company needs to do exactly what MSFT does. It is obvious at this point they are lost, incompetent and unfocused. Look at their eroding cash horde over the last 3 quarters. Apple seems to make their own rules, and look what is happening to their stock price. Can’t argue with that.
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Why is the thinking that Apple (or anyone else) has to have the majority of the market? Apple just pegged a profit of probably >$250M and someone says they are going to lose in the long run? From what? MSFT? Are you kidding? This is about satisfying customers, and they did in spades. MSFT can’t sell Zunes if they gave them away, and now they are not only losing money on the Xbox but taking a $1B charge! I am so tired of hearing about how every company needs to do exactly what MSFT does. It is obvious at this point they are lost, incompetent and unfocused. Look at their eroding cash horde over the last 3 quarters. Apple seems to make their own rules, and look what is happening to their stock price. Can’t argue with that.
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Why is the thinking that Apple (or anyone else) has to have the majority of the market? Apple just pegged a profit of probably >$250M and someone says they are going to lose in the long run? From what? MSFT? Are you kidding? This is about satisfying customers, and they did in spades. MSFT can’t sell Zunes if they gave them away, and now they are not only losing money on the Xbox but taking a $1B charge! I am so tired of hearing about how every company needs to do exactly what MSFT does. It is obvious at this point they are lost, incompetent and unfocused. Look at their eroding cash horde over the last 3 quarters. Apple seems to make their own rules, and look what is happening to their stock price. Can’t argue with that.
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“It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.”
I’ve got my facts straight. The fumble I’m talking about was the PS/2-OS/2 debacle. That’s where IBM tried to replace the PC with a 90-degree turn towards a real operating system, and Microsoft said “oh, OK: we’ll just keep updating DOS for all of you dullards”.
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“It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.”
I’ve got my facts straight. The fumble I’m talking about was the PS/2-OS/2 debacle. That’s where IBM tried to replace the PC with a 90-degree turn towards a real operating system, and Microsoft said “oh, OK: we’ll just keep updating DOS for all of you dullards”.
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“It wasn’t IBM’s fumble, it was Gary Kildall’s fumble. Get your facts straight.”
I’ve got my facts straight. The fumble I’m talking about was the PS/2-OS/2 debacle. That’s where IBM tried to replace the PC with a 90-degree turn towards a real operating system, and Microsoft said “oh, OK: we’ll just keep updating DOS for all of you dullards”.
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Chuck. Great, Apple made $250 million.
But the stock market next year will want them to make a billion.
How are they going to get there?
By making the iPhone far more attractive to far more people than it is today.
That requires MORE FEATURES.
Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!
This is why a platform that caters at least somewhat to developers will do better long term than a closed, walled off garden.
This is why Apple ended up with 5% marketshare instead of 90%.
And you don’t think that’s important? Ask someone who invested in one share of Apple back in the early 80s and one share of Microsoft which one did better.
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Chuck. Great, Apple made $250 million.
But the stock market next year will want them to make a billion.
How are they going to get there?
By making the iPhone far more attractive to far more people than it is today.
That requires MORE FEATURES.
Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!
This is why a platform that caters at least somewhat to developers will do better long term than a closed, walled off garden.
This is why Apple ended up with 5% marketshare instead of 90%.
And you don’t think that’s important? Ask someone who invested in one share of Apple back in the early 80s and one share of Microsoft which one did better.
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Chuck. Great, Apple made $250 million.
But the stock market next year will want them to make a billion.
How are they going to get there?
By making the iPhone far more attractive to far more people than it is today.
That requires MORE FEATURES.
Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!
Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!
This is why a platform that caters at least somewhat to developers will do better long term than a closed, walled off garden.
This is why Apple ended up with 5% marketshare instead of 90%.
And you don’t think that’s important? Ask someone who invested in one share of Apple back in the early 80s and one share of Microsoft which one did better.
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But why didn’t OS/2 go anywhere?
No apps.
I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.
Apps come from developers.
This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Microsoft was better at dealing with, building relationships with, helping, etc developers.
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But why didn’t OS/2 go anywhere?
No apps.
I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.
Apps come from developers.
This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Microsoft was better at dealing with, building relationships with, helping, etc developers.
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Some Guy, ahh, IBM’s real fumble came when they licensed DOS from Microsoft and didn’t keep Microsoft from licensing it to other companies.
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Some Guy, ahh, IBM’s real fumble came when they licensed DOS from Microsoft and didn’t keep Microsoft from licensing it to other companies.
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Chuck,
I’ve got to say that the Xbox quality disaster caught me by surprise. Hardware used to be the one thing that the evil empire did well (going back to the Z80 softcard for the Apple II). I guess with Ballmer in charge, all pretense at quality control is out the window.
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Chuck,
I’ve got to say that the Xbox quality disaster caught me by surprise. Hardware used to be the one thing that the evil empire did well (going back to the Z80 softcard for the Apple II). I guess with Ballmer in charge, all pretense at quality control is out the window.
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Some Guy, ahh, IBM’s real fumble came when they licensed DOS from Microsoft and didn’t keep Microsoft from licensing it to other companies.
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Chuck,
I’ve got to say that the Xbox quality disaster caught me by surprise. Hardware used to be the one thing that the evil empire did well (going back to the Z80 softcard for the Apple II). I guess with Ballmer in charge, all pretense at quality control is out the window.
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But why didn’t OS/2 go anywhere?
No apps.
I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.
Apps come from developers.
This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Microsoft was better at dealing with, building relationships with, helping, etc developers.
LikeLike
Hardly fair, Robert. Apple’s guys just finished up a hectic WWDC, and I’m sure the Apple iPhone guys are pretty tired from all the work up to the launch just last week too. Give them a break.
I think the BarCamp is fun and all, and I hope some interesting stuff comes out of it. But it seems to me the BarCamp stuff is great BECAUSE it brings non-Apple views to the platform; we all know what Apple can do-just turn on your iPhone. After BarCamp, we’ll know what OTHER people can do with this new Apple product.
And John’s blog was pretty humourous-“turn for the worse”? He’s always had a chip on his shoulder about Apple…maybe he needs to cut them some slack too. Or not.
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Hardly fair, Robert. Apple’s guys just finished up a hectic WWDC, and I’m sure the Apple iPhone guys are pretty tired from all the work up to the launch just last week too. Give them a break.
I think the BarCamp is fun and all, and I hope some interesting stuff comes out of it. But it seems to me the BarCamp stuff is great BECAUSE it brings non-Apple views to the platform; we all know what Apple can do-just turn on your iPhone. After BarCamp, we’ll know what OTHER people can do with this new Apple product.
And John’s blog was pretty humourous-“turn for the worse”? He’s always had a chip on his shoulder about Apple…maybe he needs to cut them some slack too. Or not.
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I can tell looking at the attendee list that there is a least one Apple employee there. I can also tell based on the attendee list that at least a handful of folks should know who it is. I wouldn’t want to spoil the mystery for folks here however. Happy hunting. 🙂
Chris Bernard
User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft
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I can tell looking at the attendee list that there is a least one Apple employee there. I can also tell based on the attendee list that at least a handful of folks should know who it is. I wouldn’t want to spoil the mystery for folks here however. Happy hunting. 🙂
Chris Bernard
User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft
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Hardly fair, Robert. Apple’s guys just finished up a hectic WWDC, and I’m sure the Apple iPhone guys are pretty tired from all the work up to the launch just last week too. Give them a break.
I think the BarCamp is fun and all, and I hope some interesting stuff comes out of it. But it seems to me the BarCamp stuff is great BECAUSE it brings non-Apple views to the platform; we all know what Apple can do-just turn on your iPhone. After BarCamp, we’ll know what OTHER people can do with this new Apple product.
And John’s blog was pretty humourous-“turn for the worse”? He’s always had a chip on his shoulder about Apple…maybe he needs to cut them some slack too. Or not.
LikeLike
I can tell looking at the attendee list that there is a least one Apple employee there. I can also tell based on the attendee list that at least a handful of folks should know who it is. I wouldn’t want to spoil the mystery for folks here however. Happy hunting. 🙂
Chris Bernard
User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft
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Scoble,
I wouldn’t use the phrase “ended up” w/r/t Apple’s market share if I were you. Microsoft just gave Apple an incredible gift: the longhorn disaster. That’s the tipping point, and it will be remembered as the greatest software project failure in history. After it cratered, the empire rushed out something called “vista”, which is basically a service pack done in a year and a half starting from the windows 2003 server code base.
The upshot is, that a lot of customers who were waiting for longhorn said “THIS is what we get after waiting for six years?”, and started looking around for alternatives, to the benefit of Apple, Sun, and the Linux vendors.
But that’s not all! We also saw another incredible screw-up called the “zune”, which showed all the OEMS out there that Microsoft will happily throw them under a bus if they find it convenient to do so. Upshot: people are far more cautious about jumping on an evil empire bandwagon these days.
Heck, if Ballmer didn’t have so much undeserved ownership of MSFT shares, I’d think he was an Apple sleeper agent or something. It’s hard to imagine anyone dong a better job for MS’s competitors than Ballmer has.
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Scoble,
I wouldn’t use the phrase “ended up” w/r/t Apple’s market share if I were you. Microsoft just gave Apple an incredible gift: the longhorn disaster. That’s the tipping point, and it will be remembered as the greatest software project failure in history. After it cratered, the empire rushed out something called “vista”, which is basically a service pack done in a year and a half starting from the windows 2003 server code base.
The upshot is, that a lot of customers who were waiting for longhorn said “THIS is what we get after waiting for six years?”, and started looking around for alternatives, to the benefit of Apple, Sun, and the Linux vendors.
But that’s not all! We also saw another incredible screw-up called the “zune”, which showed all the OEMS out there that Microsoft will happily throw them under a bus if they find it convenient to do so. Upshot: people are far more cautious about jumping on an evil empire bandwagon these days.
Heck, if Ballmer didn’t have so much undeserved ownership of MSFT shares, I’d think he was an Apple sleeper agent or something. It’s hard to imagine anyone dong a better job for MS’s competitors than Ballmer has.
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Scoble,
I wouldn’t use the phrase “ended up” w/r/t Apple’s market share if I were you. Microsoft just gave Apple an incredible gift: the longhorn disaster. That’s the tipping point, and it will be remembered as the greatest software project failure in history. After it cratered, the empire rushed out something called “vista”, which is basically a service pack done in a year and a half starting from the windows 2003 server code base.
The upshot is, that a lot of customers who were waiting for longhorn said “THIS is what we get after waiting for six years?”, and started looking around for alternatives, to the benefit of Apple, Sun, and the Linux vendors.
But that’s not all! We also saw another incredible screw-up called the “zune”, which showed all the OEMS out there that Microsoft will happily throw them under a bus if they find it convenient to do so. Upshot: people are far more cautious about jumping on an evil empire bandwagon these days.
Heck, if Ballmer didn’t have so much undeserved ownership of MSFT shares, I’d think he was an Apple sleeper agent or something. It’s hard to imagine anyone dong a better job for MS’s competitors than Ballmer has.
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Some Guy: I agree that Ballmer isn’t the right guy for Microsoft anymore. The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies in the first few months. I’m using it here and I like it a lot more than XP and it even fits in with OSX pretty darn well.
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Some Guy: I agree that Ballmer isn’t the right guy for Microsoft anymore. The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies in the first few months. I’m using it here and I like it a lot more than XP and it even fits in with OSX pretty darn well.
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Some Guy: I agree that Ballmer isn’t the right guy for Microsoft anymore. The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies in the first few months. I’m using it here and I like it a lot more than XP and it even fits in with OSX pretty darn well.
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Blogwatcher: hardly fair? If I were on the iPhone team I’d realize that they have a chance to really do something that lots of us want to see happen in the cell phone industry: totally upend the entire thing.
They are tired? I bet they are energized — lots of Apple employees showed up when I was waiting in line at 1 a.m. and they seemed pretty darn energized to me. Why did they show up so late in the night? They knew PR wouldn’t be there watching. Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.
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Blogwatcher: hardly fair? If I were on the iPhone team I’d realize that they have a chance to really do something that lots of us want to see happen in the cell phone industry: totally upend the entire thing.
They are tired? I bet they are energized — lots of Apple employees showed up when I was waiting in line at 1 a.m. and they seemed pretty darn energized to me. Why did they show up so late in the night? They knew PR wouldn’t be there watching. Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.
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Blogwatcher: hardly fair? If I were on the iPhone team I’d realize that they have a chance to really do something that lots of us want to see happen in the cell phone industry: totally upend the entire thing.
They are tired? I bet they are energized — lots of Apple employees showed up when I was waiting in line at 1 a.m. and they seemed pretty darn energized to me. Why did they show up so late in the night? They knew PR wouldn’t be there watching. Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.
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“sold 40 million copies ”
Don’t you mean, “was shipped pre-installed on 40 million machines”, before Dell realized that shoving it down their customers’ throats was costing them business?
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Ballmer said “not every OS release is a revenue opportunity”. That was a classic Ballmer moment.
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“sold 40 million copies ”
Don’t you mean, “was shipped pre-installed on 40 million machines”, before Dell realized that shoving it down their customers’ throats was costing them business?
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Ballmer said “not every OS release is a revenue opportunity”. That was a classic Ballmer moment.
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“sold 40 million copies ”
Don’t you mean, “was shipped pre-installed on 40 million machines”, before Dell realized that shoving it down their customers’ throats was costing them business?
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Ballmer said “not every OS release is a revenue opportunity”. That was a classic Ballmer moment.
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“The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies ”
No, that disaster CAME WITH new PCs sold. It’s really that simple. Truth is even Dell had to revert to XP for customers who saw no need/desire to get on the Vista bandwagon. In a competitive/consumer field MSFT is a joke, look at MayPlayForSure, Zune, XBox, Win Mobile, etc.
“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
You mean like MSFT that’s now plunging into secrecy with its next Windows iteration? Tell that to Ozzie who’s not talking about anything.
Roberto, you’re behind even MSFT on this curve.
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“The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies ”
No, that disaster CAME WITH new PCs sold. It’s really that simple. Truth is even Dell had to revert to XP for customers who saw no need/desire to get on the Vista bandwagon. In a competitive/consumer field MSFT is a joke, look at MayPlayForSure, Zune, XBox, Win Mobile, etc.
“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
You mean like MSFT that’s now plunging into secrecy with its next Windows iteration? Tell that to Ozzie who’s not talking about anything.
Roberto, you’re behind even MSFT on this curve.
LikeLike
“The Longhorn disaster still sold 40 million copies ”
No, that disaster CAME WITH new PCs sold. It’s really that simple. Truth is even Dell had to revert to XP for customers who saw no need/desire to get on the Vista bandwagon. In a competitive/consumer field MSFT is a joke, look at MayPlayForSure, Zune, XBox, Win Mobile, etc.
“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
You mean like MSFT that’s now plunging into secrecy with its next Windows iteration? Tell that to Ozzie who’s not talking about anything.
Roberto, you’re behind even MSFT on this curve.
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I do agree Apple should be there just in principle. But it is remarkable that Apple chooses NOT to offer an SDK. Surely this would lock developers into Apple’s proprietary APIs, which is the main strategy behind Microsoft’s success. Steve Jobs could be ensuring Apple’s success by making iPhone specific development, but instead chooses to make the iPhone a better product by not opening it up for security reasons.
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I do agree Apple should be there just in principle. But it is remarkable that Apple chooses NOT to offer an SDK. Surely this would lock developers into Apple’s proprietary APIs, which is the main strategy behind Microsoft’s success. Steve Jobs could be ensuring Apple’s success by making iPhone specific development, but instead chooses to make the iPhone a better product by not opening it up for security reasons.
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I do agree Apple should be there just in principle. But it is remarkable that Apple chooses NOT to offer an SDK. Surely this would lock developers into Apple’s proprietary APIs, which is the main strategy behind Microsoft’s success. Steve Jobs could be ensuring Apple’s success by making iPhone specific development, but instead chooses to make the iPhone a better product by not opening it up for security reasons.
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Robert,
You shouldn’t dismiss Blogwatcher so quickly, he’s got some great points (and you picked on the one that wasn’t so great: they’re tired).
It seems to me that what is making the conference so great is the fact that Apple isn’t there. It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching? It’s better that Apple is not there since it lets creative people develop creative ideas without someone telling them what they should and should not do with the iPhone. I doubt this is a reason for them not officially being there however. That’s probably due to the speed with which it was all set up.
What you’re seeing is basically just a different philosophy, and why Apple will outplay Microsoft in the long term. Apple creates tools and lets people best figure out how to use them. Microsoft creates products and tells people how to use them. This is why creative people are attracted to Apple. They give people the tool, and get out of the f*cking way. This goes over well in some cases and not in others. E.g., corporate people don’t like to have to figure out how to use something, they want to be told. Likewise, a lot of developers aren’t interested in being creative, they just want to get something shipped.
It comes down to a different default view of users. Microsoft seems to default to assume their users are dumb and need hand-held guidance. Apple seems to default to assume their users are smart and can figure it out for themselves. Obviously, not all Microsoft users are dumb, nor all Apple users smart. It’s just the default outlook, and neither is necessarily right.
You do have some generally good ‘big picture’ points about Apple and developers, but this conference is not a point for that argument.
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Robert,
You shouldn’t dismiss Blogwatcher so quickly, he’s got some great points (and you picked on the one that wasn’t so great: they’re tired).
It seems to me that what is making the conference so great is the fact that Apple isn’t there. It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching? It’s better that Apple is not there since it lets creative people develop creative ideas without someone telling them what they should and should not do with the iPhone. I doubt this is a reason for them not officially being there however. That’s probably due to the speed with which it was all set up.
What you’re seeing is basically just a different philosophy, and why Apple will outplay Microsoft in the long term. Apple creates tools and lets people best figure out how to use them. Microsoft creates products and tells people how to use them. This is why creative people are attracted to Apple. They give people the tool, and get out of the f*cking way. This goes over well in some cases and not in others. E.g., corporate people don’t like to have to figure out how to use something, they want to be told. Likewise, a lot of developers aren’t interested in being creative, they just want to get something shipped.
It comes down to a different default view of users. Microsoft seems to default to assume their users are dumb and need hand-held guidance. Apple seems to default to assume their users are smart and can figure it out for themselves. Obviously, not all Microsoft users are dumb, nor all Apple users smart. It’s just the default outlook, and neither is necessarily right.
You do have some generally good ‘big picture’ points about Apple and developers, but this conference is not a point for that argument.
LikeLike
Robert,
You shouldn’t dismiss Blogwatcher so quickly, he’s got some great points (and you picked on the one that wasn’t so great: they’re tired).
It seems to me that what is making the conference so great is the fact that Apple isn’t there. It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching? It’s better that Apple is not there since it lets creative people develop creative ideas without someone telling them what they should and should not do with the iPhone. I doubt this is a reason for them not officially being there however. That’s probably due to the speed with which it was all set up.
What you’re seeing is basically just a different philosophy, and why Apple will outplay Microsoft in the long term. Apple creates tools and lets people best figure out how to use them. Microsoft creates products and tells people how to use them. This is why creative people are attracted to Apple. They give people the tool, and get out of the f*cking way. This goes over well in some cases and not in others. E.g., corporate people don’t like to have to figure out how to use something, they want to be told. Likewise, a lot of developers aren’t interested in being creative, they just want to get something shipped.
It comes down to a different default view of users. Microsoft seems to default to assume their users are dumb and need hand-held guidance. Apple seems to default to assume their users are smart and can figure it out for themselves. Obviously, not all Microsoft users are dumb, nor all Apple users smart. It’s just the default outlook, and neither is necessarily right.
You do have some generally good ‘big picture’ points about Apple and developers, but this conference is not a point for that argument.
LikeLike
As a Mac Fanboy it saddens me to agree with Robert on this one (not cos I want to pick a fight but because he is right and Apple is wrong.)
Open beats closed hands down – every time. M$ may not be perfect but at least it has created an ecosystem every other s/w company would die for…with the possible exception of IBM. That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?
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As a Mac Fanboy it saddens me to agree with Robert on this one (not cos I want to pick a fight but because he is right and Apple is wrong.)
Open beats closed hands down – every time. M$ may not be perfect but at least it has created an ecosystem every other s/w company would die for…with the possible exception of IBM. That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?
LikeLike
As a Mac Fanboy it saddens me to agree with Robert on this one (not cos I want to pick a fight but because he is right and Apple is wrong.)
Open beats closed hands down – every time. M$ may not be perfect but at least it has created an ecosystem every other s/w company would die for…with the possible exception of IBM. That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?
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I dunno.
I’m a Linux developer.
It seems to me that Microsoft’s legal department is poisoning the waters with their latest GPLv3 fiasco.
I doubt that you’re going to be seeing a lot of Microsoft developers showing up at the next Ottawa Linux Symposium.
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I dunno.
I’m a Linux developer.
It seems to me that Microsoft’s legal department is poisoning the waters with their latest GPLv3 fiasco.
I doubt that you’re going to be seeing a lot of Microsoft developers showing up at the next Ottawa Linux Symposium.
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I dunno.
I’m a Linux developer.
It seems to me that Microsoft’s legal department is poisoning the waters with their latest GPLv3 fiasco.
I doubt that you’re going to be seeing a lot of Microsoft developers showing up at the next Ottawa Linux Symposium.
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“Open beats closed hands down – every time.”
Yep, I love my open source iPod.
“That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world.”
Unlike business, where IT and developers are the customers, in the consumer market it’s not “developers, developers, developers” it’s “consumers, consumers, consumers”. Apple’s selling a consumer gadget, not a platform. Don’t you forget it.
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“Open beats closed hands down – every time.”
Yep, I love my open source iPod.
“That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world.”
Unlike business, where IT and developers are the customers, in the consumer market it’s not “developers, developers, developers” it’s “consumers, consumers, consumers”. Apple’s selling a consumer gadget, not a platform. Don’t you forget it.
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“Open beats closed hands down – every time.”
Yep, I love my open source iPod.
“That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world.”
Unlike business, where IT and developers are the customers, in the consumer market it’s not “developers, developers, developers” it’s “consumers, consumers, consumers”. Apple’s selling a consumer gadget, not a platform. Don’t you forget it.
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OK it sounds real great there. But would it be too much trouble to actually tell people what event you’re at?
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OK it sounds real great there. But would it be too much trouble to actually tell people what event you’re at?
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OK it sounds real great there. But would it be too much trouble to actually tell people what event you’re at?
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Microsoft got where it is today because of a simple slogan “IBM Compatible.”
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Microsoft got where it is today because of a simple slogan “IBM Compatible.”
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Microsoft got where it is today because of a simple slogan “IBM Compatible.”
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“User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft”
Ok, this is too much of a straight line, even for me.
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“User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft”
Ok, this is too much of a straight line, even for me.
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“User Experience Evangelist, Microsoft”
Ok, this is too much of a straight line, even for me.
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“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
That policy is worth hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Apple. Think about it.
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“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
That policy is worth hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Apple. Think about it.
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“Apple just needs to get over the secrecy policy a little bit to get to the next level.”
That policy is worth hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Apple. Think about it.
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Wow, this turned into quite the thread.
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Wow, this turned into quite the thread.
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Wow, this turned into quite the thread.
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Hmm
Well I really don’t agree with your premise, and if you think that the whole iPhone dev teams eyeballs wont be all over this event, then hmm well. Anyway, your post here and the ensuing comments have made me realize that,it seems once an MS guy always an MS guy. It may not be fair, but it sure seems that way.
Also this amazingly short sighted view that a majority is needed to win in a marketplace this big is nuts. You also mention a stock buy in a comment, well your right of course, but move that purchase to 1996 or 97 and see what your results are today. Anyway I am rambling and it seems, even with some rather smart counter points, that your mind is already made up, Apple has lost the phone market already. Boy that was quick.
Also for Dennis H, “That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?”
I am sure that yes, quite a few um, thousand people will eat tonight, maybe make a mortgage payment or two because of the Apple ecosystem and its community , or maybe even the iPod ecosystem, and I am not even talking about registered/active software developers.
BK
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Hmm
Well I really don’t agree with your premise, and if you think that the whole iPhone dev teams eyeballs wont be all over this event, then hmm well. Anyway, your post here and the ensuing comments have made me realize that,it seems once an MS guy always an MS guy. It may not be fair, but it sure seems that way.
Also this amazingly short sighted view that a majority is needed to win in a marketplace this big is nuts. You also mention a stock buy in a comment, well your right of course, but move that purchase to 1996 or 97 and see what your results are today. Anyway I am rambling and it seems, even with some rather smart counter points, that your mind is already made up, Apple has lost the phone market already. Boy that was quick.
Also for Dennis H, “That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?”
I am sure that yes, quite a few um, thousand people will eat tonight, maybe make a mortgage payment or two because of the Apple ecosystem and its community , or maybe even the iPod ecosystem, and I am not even talking about registered/active software developers.
BK
LikeLike
Hmm
Well I really don’t agree with your premise, and if you think that the whole iPhone dev teams eyeballs wont be all over this event, then hmm well. Anyway, your post here and the ensuing comments have made me realize that,it seems once an MS guy always an MS guy. It may not be fair, but it sure seems that way.
Also this amazingly short sighted view that a majority is needed to win in a marketplace this big is nuts. You also mention a stock buy in a comment, well your right of course, but move that purchase to 1996 or 97 and see what your results are today. Anyway I am rambling and it seems, even with some rather smart counter points, that your mind is already made up, Apple has lost the phone market already. Boy that was quick.
Also for Dennis H, “That’s feeding a LOT of developers around the world. Can we say the same of Apple?”
I am sure that yes, quite a few um, thousand people will eat tonight, maybe make a mortgage payment or two because of the Apple ecosystem and its community , or maybe even the iPod ecosystem, and I am not even talking about registered/active software developers.
BK
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Rick: I said what event I’m at on Twitter, on Pownce, on Jaiku, on Facebook, and in earlier posts here on my blog.
It’s iPhoneDevCamp. In San Francisco.
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Rick: I said what event I’m at on Twitter, on Pownce, on Jaiku, on Facebook, and in earlier posts here on my blog.
It’s iPhoneDevCamp. In San Francisco.
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Rick: I said what event I’m at on Twitter, on Pownce, on Jaiku, on Facebook, and in earlier posts here on my blog.
It’s iPhoneDevCamp. In San Francisco.
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Eric
>It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching?
You have a point there. This is one of the better events I’ve been to. But it’s mostly because of the newness of the platform which attracted a good cross-section of geeks.
I disagree with your other points, by the way.
In the 1990s I remember developers who were pissed at Apple because Apple made it very hard to build apps for the Mac. Not only were there a lot of rules, but there weren’t many tools and also if you created something good Apple would come in and grab it. Ask Marc Canter or Dave Winer about the early Apple days and how bad Apple was toward developers.
The real problem is that the iPhone doesn’t have a good developer platform. More on that over the next few days but developers here are hitting all the walls.
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Eric
>It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching?
You have a point there. This is one of the better events I’ve been to. But it’s mostly because of the newness of the platform which attracted a good cross-section of geeks.
I disagree with your other points, by the way.
In the 1990s I remember developers who were pissed at Apple because Apple made it very hard to build apps for the Mac. Not only were there a lot of rules, but there weren’t many tools and also if you created something good Apple would come in and grab it. Ask Marc Canter or Dave Winer about the early Apple days and how bad Apple was toward developers.
The real problem is that the iPhone doesn’t have a good developer platform. More on that over the next few days but developers here are hitting all the walls.
LikeLike
Eric
>It’s basically a ‘hacker conference’ and what’s the fun of that when big brother is watching?
You have a point there. This is one of the better events I’ve been to. But it’s mostly because of the newness of the platform which attracted a good cross-section of geeks.
I disagree with your other points, by the way.
In the 1990s I remember developers who were pissed at Apple because Apple made it very hard to build apps for the Mac. Not only were there a lot of rules, but there weren’t many tools and also if you created something good Apple would come in and grab it. Ask Marc Canter or Dave Winer about the early Apple days and how bad Apple was toward developers.
The real problem is that the iPhone doesn’t have a good developer platform. More on that over the next few days but developers here are hitting all the walls.
LikeLike
Robert, have you ever developed for the Mac? While I agree that Apple doesn’t get developer relations as well as Microsoft, I’d say they get the development platform better than Microsoft. As for the iPhone being open to developers, I have two points:
1. Stop pretending that the same rules apply to Apple as to MS. Apple is not targeting business customers. If I was to buy an iPhone would I care about corporate apps or productivity apps? No, these are the sorts of things guys in suites care about. Apple cares about people out of their work clothes, consumers. Apple targets consumers because nobody else really does. MS gets business really well but just can’t get a grasp on consumers, Apple is the other way around
2. Apple and Microsoft take different approaches to development. Apple releases OS X 10.0 in 2001 and updates it almost every year, giving 6 versions in 6 years, introducing technologies destined for Longhorn/Vista years before they shipped. Microsoft prefers to get the complete product out there. Ship fewer versions and do more in each version. The former is a great development ideal. Make a solid core and improve on it. Because the iPhone is 90% software they can improve on it fairly easily. It doesn’t have flash support? Meh, add it in an update, it’s easy to do.
The iPhone doesn’t need an SDK at the moment. Imagine you’d just written a great application and used an internal SDK to do some stuff, would you:
a. delay the SDK and release the application
b. delay the application to clean up the SDK and release together
c. release the SDK with the application even though the SDK is messy and not really fit for developers to use
Apple is taking route a.
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Robert, have you ever developed for the Mac? While I agree that Apple doesn’t get developer relations as well as Microsoft, I’d say they get the development platform better than Microsoft. As for the iPhone being open to developers, I have two points:
1. Stop pretending that the same rules apply to Apple as to MS. Apple is not targeting business customers. If I was to buy an iPhone would I care about corporate apps or productivity apps? No, these are the sorts of things guys in suites care about. Apple cares about people out of their work clothes, consumers. Apple targets consumers because nobody else really does. MS gets business really well but just can’t get a grasp on consumers, Apple is the other way around
2. Apple and Microsoft take different approaches to development. Apple releases OS X 10.0 in 2001 and updates it almost every year, giving 6 versions in 6 years, introducing technologies destined for Longhorn/Vista years before they shipped. Microsoft prefers to get the complete product out there. Ship fewer versions and do more in each version. The former is a great development ideal. Make a solid core and improve on it. Because the iPhone is 90% software they can improve on it fairly easily. It doesn’t have flash support? Meh, add it in an update, it’s easy to do.
The iPhone doesn’t need an SDK at the moment. Imagine you’d just written a great application and used an internal SDK to do some stuff, would you:
a. delay the SDK and release the application
b. delay the application to clean up the SDK and release together
c. release the SDK with the application even though the SDK is messy and not really fit for developers to use
Apple is taking route a.
LikeLike
Robert, have you ever developed for the Mac? While I agree that Apple doesn’t get developer relations as well as Microsoft, I’d say they get the development platform better than Microsoft. As for the iPhone being open to developers, I have two points:
1. Stop pretending that the same rules apply to Apple as to MS. Apple is not targeting business customers. If I was to buy an iPhone would I care about corporate apps or productivity apps? No, these are the sorts of things guys in suites care about. Apple cares about people out of their work clothes, consumers. Apple targets consumers because nobody else really does. MS gets business really well but just can’t get a grasp on consumers, Apple is the other way around
2. Apple and Microsoft take different approaches to development. Apple releases OS X 10.0 in 2001 and updates it almost every year, giving 6 versions in 6 years, introducing technologies destined for Longhorn/Vista years before they shipped. Microsoft prefers to get the complete product out there. Ship fewer versions and do more in each version. The former is a great development ideal. Make a solid core and improve on it. Because the iPhone is 90% software they can improve on it fairly easily. It doesn’t have flash support? Meh, add it in an update, it’s easy to do.
The iPhone doesn’t need an SDK at the moment. Imagine you’d just written a great application and used an internal SDK to do some stuff, would you:
a. delay the SDK and release the application
b. delay the application to clean up the SDK and release together
c. release the SDK with the application even though the SDK is messy and not really fit for developers to use
Apple is taking route a.
LikeLike
While we would love to have Apple at the event (they were invited), we really don’t need them. The fact that they are not here is a lost opportunity for THEM, not necessarily for us. There is an Apple community, but Apple isn’t really a part of it. Is that such a bad thing? Perhaps leaving us alone is the best thing they can do. Hopefully they will listen to our voices, but at the end of the day do WE really care…
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While we would love to have Apple at the event (they were invited), we really don’t need them. The fact that they are not here is a lost opportunity for THEM, not necessarily for us. There is an Apple community, but Apple isn’t really a part of it. Is that such a bad thing? Perhaps leaving us alone is the best thing they can do. Hopefully they will listen to our voices, but at the end of the day do WE really care…
LikeLike
While we would love to have Apple at the event (they were invited), we really don’t need them. The fact that they are not here is a lost opportunity for THEM, not necessarily for us. There is an Apple community, but Apple isn’t really a part of it. Is that such a bad thing? Perhaps leaving us alone is the best thing they can do. Hopefully they will listen to our voices, but at the end of the day do WE really care…
LikeLike
Microsoft is trying desperately to hold on. All of their latest stuff has more or less flopped.
Let’s see…
Zune: failure
Vista: people hate it. I know of more people staying or going back to Vista, or even to linux.
Bill Gates and his “let’s hire more and more foreigners” while there are talented people aplenty right here in the US. Anyone who says otherwise does not know the IT industry like I do. There is no shortage of talented IT workers here in the US. What there is is a shortage of people not stupid enough to work for the pittance most Indians, etc. are willing to work for.
I miss the days when people actually had to have boat loads of credentials to get a good job. I miss talking with people who think they know everything because they use the Internet but have no real skills, let alone real computer skills.
Microsoft is desperately trying to remain relevant in a world that needs them less and less. GPLv3 is something Microsoft is not going to deal with very easily, especially now that they are in bed with Linux companies. The few linux companies that did get into bed with them will not be around much longer anyway. The real players like Red Hat and Ubuntu are holding firm for open standards.
Good luck, Microsoft, you’re going to need it.
LikeLike
Microsoft is trying desperately to hold on. All of their latest stuff has more or less flopped.
Let’s see…
Zune: failure
Vista: people hate it. I know of more people staying or going back to Vista, or even to linux.
Bill Gates and his “let’s hire more and more foreigners” while there are talented people aplenty right here in the US. Anyone who says otherwise does not know the IT industry like I do. There is no shortage of talented IT workers here in the US. What there is is a shortage of people not stupid enough to work for the pittance most Indians, etc. are willing to work for.
I miss the days when people actually had to have boat loads of credentials to get a good job. I miss talking with people who think they know everything because they use the Internet but have no real skills, let alone real computer skills.
Microsoft is desperately trying to remain relevant in a world that needs them less and less. GPLv3 is something Microsoft is not going to deal with very easily, especially now that they are in bed with Linux companies. The few linux companies that did get into bed with them will not be around much longer anyway. The real players like Red Hat and Ubuntu are holding firm for open standards.
Good luck, Microsoft, you’re going to need it.
LikeLike
Microsoft is trying desperately to hold on. All of their latest stuff has more or less flopped.
Let’s see…
Zune: failure
Vista: people hate it. I know of more people staying or going back to Vista, or even to linux.
Bill Gates and his “let’s hire more and more foreigners” while there are talented people aplenty right here in the US. Anyone who says otherwise does not know the IT industry like I do. There is no shortage of talented IT workers here in the US. What there is is a shortage of people not stupid enough to work for the pittance most Indians, etc. are willing to work for.
I miss the days when people actually had to have boat loads of credentials to get a good job. I miss talking with people who think they know everything because they use the Internet but have no real skills, let alone real computer skills.
Microsoft is desperately trying to remain relevant in a world that needs them less and less. GPLv3 is something Microsoft is not going to deal with very easily, especially now that they are in bed with Linux companies. The few linux companies that did get into bed with them will not be around much longer anyway. The real players like Red Hat and Ubuntu are holding firm for open standards.
Good luck, Microsoft, you’re going to need it.
LikeLike
Scoble wrote,
“Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!”
The iPhone NEEDS 1000 games? I think not.
“Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!”
I can’t stress enough how Apple, is not, repeat, not, going after the enterprise, and once again, it doesn’t have to in order for the iPhone to be successful. It just doesn’t. Yet, we have a few iPhone users at work who are already getting email from our hosted Exchange server. Yes, the host has IMAP turned on, to my surprise, and they have to wait 15 minutes to get new emails. So what? It works when all the ZDNet pundits said it wouldn’t, and Apple just HAD to work with MSFT to get it to. Where are they now? Not a peep from them in a week. Thanks for that feature, Apple!
“Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!”
Let’s see: iLife, iTunes, Keynote, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut Pro Suite, iCal, Mail (Apple relies on Office for Mac, just like everyone else does)…how many do you want? You act like Apple can’t write good apps.
You talk features, features, features. Did the iPhone not come with any features or software? And Apple has a built-in upgrade system (iTunes, brilliant move!) to put whatever they build right onto the iPhone seemlessly.
This is 2007, not 1989. I just don’t get this MSFT mentality to all things computing. It’s like there is no other way to be a successful company other than to “own the desktop.” I guess since Apple doesn’t, they are doomed to fail.
Good luck with that philosopy.
LikeLike
Scoble wrote,
“Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!”
The iPhone NEEDS 1000 games? I think not.
“Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!”
I can’t stress enough how Apple, is not, repeat, not, going after the enterprise, and once again, it doesn’t have to in order for the iPhone to be successful. It just doesn’t. Yet, we have a few iPhone users at work who are already getting email from our hosted Exchange server. Yes, the host has IMAP turned on, to my surprise, and they have to wait 15 minutes to get new emails. So what? It works when all the ZDNet pundits said it wouldn’t, and Apple just HAD to work with MSFT to get it to. Where are they now? Not a peep from them in a week. Thanks for that feature, Apple!
“Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!”
Let’s see: iLife, iTunes, Keynote, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut Pro Suite, iCal, Mail (Apple relies on Office for Mac, just like everyone else does)…how many do you want? You act like Apple can’t write good apps.
You talk features, features, features. Did the iPhone not come with any features or software? And Apple has a built-in upgrade system (iTunes, brilliant move!) to put whatever they build right onto the iPhone seemlessly.
This is 2007, not 1989. I just don’t get this MSFT mentality to all things computing. It’s like there is no other way to be a successful company other than to “own the desktop.” I guess since Apple doesn’t, they are doomed to fail.
Good luck with that philosopy.
LikeLike
Scoble wrote,
“Who is going to build 1,000 games? Apple?
Hah!”
The iPhone NEEDS 1000 games? I think not.
“Who is going to build corporate applications? Apple?
Hah!”
I can’t stress enough how Apple, is not, repeat, not, going after the enterprise, and once again, it doesn’t have to in order for the iPhone to be successful. It just doesn’t. Yet, we have a few iPhone users at work who are already getting email from our hosted Exchange server. Yes, the host has IMAP turned on, to my surprise, and they have to wait 15 minutes to get new emails. So what? It works when all the ZDNet pundits said it wouldn’t, and Apple just HAD to work with MSFT to get it to. Where are they now? Not a peep from them in a week. Thanks for that feature, Apple!
“Who is going to build productivity apps? Apple?
Hah!”
Let’s see: iLife, iTunes, Keynote, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut Pro Suite, iCal, Mail (Apple relies on Office for Mac, just like everyone else does)…how many do you want? You act like Apple can’t write good apps.
You talk features, features, features. Did the iPhone not come with any features or software? And Apple has a built-in upgrade system (iTunes, brilliant move!) to put whatever they build right onto the iPhone seemlessly.
This is 2007, not 1989. I just don’t get this MSFT mentality to all things computing. It’s like there is no other way to be a successful company other than to “own the desktop.” I guess since Apple doesn’t, they are doomed to fail.
Good luck with that philosopy.
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BK – I’d suggest you miss the point. As others have said – this is 2007, not 1989. This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies. When there is a closed system a la Apple, the choices are limited. And that doesn’t bode well for *users* in the longer term.
The problem is one of management style. Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change. That’s a simple fact and not a judgment.
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BK – I’d suggest you miss the point. As others have said – this is 2007, not 1989. This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies. When there is a closed system a la Apple, the choices are limited. And that doesn’t bode well for *users* in the longer term.
The problem is one of management style. Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change. That’s a simple fact and not a judgment.
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BK – I’d suggest you miss the point. As others have said – this is 2007, not 1989. This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies. When there is a closed system a la Apple, the choices are limited. And that doesn’t bode well for *users* in the longer term.
The problem is one of management style. Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change. That’s a simple fact and not a judgment.
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So, wait. You’re basically saying that because Apple sent no employees to an event where people optimize web pages for the iPhone, they suck? I’m pretty sure EVERYTHING about that can be found here. Being a web developer myself, my job isn’t that fucking complicated. Web development is probably one of the best jobs if you can plug in to customers correctly. And while you probably CAN make some neat applications using the Safari browser, there’s not that much potential (especially with AT&T’s EDGE, what the fuck was Apple thinking?)
If you’re going to bash Apple, do it correctly.
They totally fucked up, not because of the lack of Apple conferences on “optimizing” web sites for Safari on iPhone, but because there’s no built in application development for the phone! Even Microsoft’s dreadful mobile smart phones run developer applications, and the phones suck. iPhone, however can be updated, and I’m confident that with the release of Leopard will come updates through iTunes, with many improvements.
But I’ve rambled to long, and looking back at the post I’m not even going to get started on how Microsoft got it’s market share. There are many types of developers, sir. Some do it for the money, some do it to increase productivity and sell their creations on the side, and many for do it for fun. Apple not telling them to use standards on web pages doesn’t show that they, as a company, are worse than Microsoft.
Using standards is common sense.
Considering I have to hack my code and css into oblivion on even IE 7, while Safari renders is fine (thank you WebKit), maybe Microsoft should have some conferences on how to use the IE7 js library until they fix their piece of shit browser.
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So, wait. You’re basically saying that because Apple sent no employees to an event where people optimize web pages for the iPhone, they suck? I’m pretty sure EVERYTHING about that can be found here. Being a web developer myself, my job isn’t that fucking complicated. Web development is probably one of the best jobs if you can plug in to customers correctly. And while you probably CAN make some neat applications using the Safari browser, there’s not that much potential (especially with AT&T’s EDGE, what the fuck was Apple thinking?)
If you’re going to bash Apple, do it correctly.
They totally fucked up, not because of the lack of Apple conferences on “optimizing” web sites for Safari on iPhone, but because there’s no built in application development for the phone! Even Microsoft’s dreadful mobile smart phones run developer applications, and the phones suck. iPhone, however can be updated, and I’m confident that with the release of Leopard will come updates through iTunes, with many improvements.
But I’ve rambled to long, and looking back at the post I’m not even going to get started on how Microsoft got it’s market share. There are many types of developers, sir. Some do it for the money, some do it to increase productivity and sell their creations on the side, and many for do it for fun. Apple not telling them to use standards on web pages doesn’t show that they, as a company, are worse than Microsoft.
Using standards is common sense.
Considering I have to hack my code and css into oblivion on even IE 7, while Safari renders is fine (thank you WebKit), maybe Microsoft should have some conferences on how to use the IE7 js library until they fix their piece of shit browser.
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So, wait. You’re basically saying that because Apple sent no employees to an event where people optimize web pages for the iPhone, they suck? I’m pretty sure EVERYTHING about that can be found here. Being a web developer myself, my job isn’t that fucking complicated. Web development is probably one of the best jobs if you can plug in to customers correctly. And while you probably CAN make some neat applications using the Safari browser, there’s not that much potential (especially with AT&T’s EDGE, what the fuck was Apple thinking?)
If you’re going to bash Apple, do it correctly.
They totally fucked up, not because of the lack of Apple conferences on “optimizing” web sites for Safari on iPhone, but because there’s no built in application development for the phone! Even Microsoft’s dreadful mobile smart phones run developer applications, and the phones suck. iPhone, however can be updated, and I’m confident that with the release of Leopard will come updates through iTunes, with many improvements.
But I’ve rambled to long, and looking back at the post I’m not even going to get started on how Microsoft got it’s market share. There are many types of developers, sir. Some do it for the money, some do it to increase productivity and sell their creations on the side, and many for do it for fun. Apple not telling them to use standards on web pages doesn’t show that they, as a company, are worse than Microsoft.
Using standards is common sense.
Considering I have to hack my code and css into oblivion on even IE 7, while Safari renders is fine (thank you WebKit), maybe Microsoft should have some conferences on how to use the IE7 js library until they fix their piece of shit browser.
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“That requires MORE FEATURES.”
Way to miss the point, dude. The reason why all the “iPhone killers” failed to draw blood is that they believe it’s all about checking more boxes.
Homework assignment: Why did the Zune fail?
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“That requires MORE FEATURES.”
Way to miss the point, dude. The reason why all the “iPhone killers” failed to draw blood is that they believe it’s all about checking more boxes.
Homework assignment: Why did the Zune fail?
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“That requires MORE FEATURES.”
Way to miss the point, dude. The reason why all the “iPhone killers” failed to draw blood is that they believe it’s all about checking more boxes.
Homework assignment: Why did the Zune fail?
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“Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change”
Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.
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“Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change”
Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.
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“Jobs/Ballmer are ‘old school’ who are incapable of recognising change”
Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.
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web
as
a
platform
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web
as
a
platform
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web
as
a
platform
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@13 Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporation”
ActiveSync. And while the iPhone can sync with email servers via IMAP, the better experience in the enterprise would be for someone to get ActiveSync working on the iPhone.
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@13 Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporation”
ActiveSync. And while the iPhone can sync with email servers via IMAP, the better experience in the enterprise would be for someone to get ActiveSync working on the iPhone.
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@13 Robert, could you name please one HUGE MS Mobile app. That app ” why Windows Mobile gets brought into a ton of corporation”
ActiveSync. And while the iPhone can sync with email servers via IMAP, the better experience in the enterprise would be for someone to get ActiveSync working on the iPhone.
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When are people going to learn that doing what Microsoft does is no way to beat Microsoft? If Apple has learned anything since Jobs returned, it’s that having the balls to just make great products and f$ck competing with Msoft directly pays better.
Not being Microsoft is exactly what has made Apple so successful in recent years.
And I can’t help but laugh at the suggestions made here that Microsoft is more “open” anx Apple is more “closed.” Are you serious? AAC, H.264, Ajax, push IMAP. These are “open” standards. Not owned by Apple or anyone else. Windows media, Janus DRM, Exchange. These are proprietary. So are Flash and RIM’s Blackberry email.
All that being said, I don’t think it would hurt Apple to show up at these types of events, if only to make excited developers feel even more Apple love. I don’t think it will make or break the platform, but it couldn’t hurt.
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When are people going to learn that doing what Microsoft does is no way to beat Microsoft? If Apple has learned anything since Jobs returned, it’s that having the balls to just make great products and f$ck competing with Msoft directly pays better.
Not being Microsoft is exactly what has made Apple so successful in recent years.
And I can’t help but laugh at the suggestions made here that Microsoft is more “open” anx Apple is more “closed.” Are you serious? AAC, H.264, Ajax, push IMAP. These are “open” standards. Not owned by Apple or anyone else. Windows media, Janus DRM, Exchange. These are proprietary. So are Flash and RIM’s Blackberry email.
All that being said, I don’t think it would hurt Apple to show up at these types of events, if only to make excited developers feel even more Apple love. I don’t think it will make or break the platform, but it couldn’t hurt.
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When are people going to learn that doing what Microsoft does is no way to beat Microsoft? If Apple has learned anything since Jobs returned, it’s that having the balls to just make great products and f$ck competing with Msoft directly pays better.
Not being Microsoft is exactly what has made Apple so successful in recent years.
And I can’t help but laugh at the suggestions made here that Microsoft is more “open” anx Apple is more “closed.” Are you serious? AAC, H.264, Ajax, push IMAP. These are “open” standards. Not owned by Apple or anyone else. Windows media, Janus DRM, Exchange. These are proprietary. So are Flash and RIM’s Blackberry email.
All that being said, I don’t think it would hurt Apple to show up at these types of events, if only to make excited developers feel even more Apple love. I don’t think it will make or break the platform, but it couldn’t hurt.
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@anona: you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.
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@anona: you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.
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@anona: you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.
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.
When there are so many words typed, by those who feel such strong need to hide their identities, then a reasonable reader really must wonder….
.
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When there are so many words typed, by those who feel such strong need to hide their identities, then a reasonable reader really must wonder….
.
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When there are so many words typed, by those who feel such strong need to hide their identities, then a reasonable reader really must wonder….
.
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“you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.”
So Apple had nothing to do with the ‘management of the future’ of digital music? And now mobile communications? Are you daft?
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“you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.”
So Apple had nothing to do with the ‘management of the future’ of digital music? And now mobile communications? Are you daft?
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“you miss the point – this is about management of the future, not features or product.”
So Apple had nothing to do with the ‘management of the future’ of digital music? And now mobile communications? Are you daft?
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“meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share.”
In the US sure, but not the rest of the world. There Symbian is king.
I think this is all a bit premature and makes for good copy. Steve Jobs’ comment during his D5 interview with Walt elude to a “proper” iPhone SDK coming later in the year. They are thinking about it, about how to do it right and simply not rushing in to anything.
For the meantime, as others have pointed out, the iPhone SDK is the web. Basically these are people getting together to talk HTML, CSS, etc? HTML, CSS – they shouldn’t let Microsoft in to anything involving such topics. They have no ideas about standards and are likely to botch things up! 🙂
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“meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share.”
In the US sure, but not the rest of the world. There Symbian is king.
I think this is all a bit premature and makes for good copy. Steve Jobs’ comment during his D5 interview with Walt elude to a “proper” iPhone SDK coming later in the year. They are thinking about it, about how to do it right and simply not rushing in to anything.
For the meantime, as others have pointed out, the iPhone SDK is the web. Basically these are people getting together to talk HTML, CSS, etc? HTML, CSS – they shouldn’t let Microsoft in to anything involving such topics. They have no ideas about standards and are likely to botch things up! 🙂
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“meanguy: you might look at Microsoft’s cell phone market share.”
In the US sure, but not the rest of the world. There Symbian is king.
I think this is all a bit premature and makes for good copy. Steve Jobs’ comment during his D5 interview with Walt elude to a “proper” iPhone SDK coming later in the year. They are thinking about it, about how to do it right and simply not rushing in to anything.
For the meantime, as others have pointed out, the iPhone SDK is the web. Basically these are people getting together to talk HTML, CSS, etc? HTML, CSS – they shouldn’t let Microsoft in to anything involving such topics. They have no ideas about standards and are likely to botch things up! 🙂
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I always get a kick out of people who mention the “tipping point”. MS has been making big mistakes for a long time, but Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. Don’t expect Longhorn or Vista or Ballmer’s comments to be that magic point either. Every big enterprise makes mistakes (Newton).
When I first came to Japan in 1989 I was surprised how many Macs were selling here. Apparently, supporting Asian fonts was considered a benefit by Asians. It took awhile, but MS started to offer ways to support kanji and the Apple market gains vanished like a blip on a radar screen.
I was doing work for Chevron when they wanted to switch their entire operations to Apple systems. We jumped through tremendous hoops to be allowed by Apple to migrate critical tools to Macs. Even so the process for us was painful and apparently for Chevron as well: Less than two years into the project they abandoned it as futile.
Scoble’s point that Apple has been limited by their act of limiting developers is exactly correct.
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I always get a kick out of people who mention the “tipping point”. MS has been making big mistakes for a long time, but Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. Don’t expect Longhorn or Vista or Ballmer’s comments to be that magic point either. Every big enterprise makes mistakes (Newton).
When I first came to Japan in 1989 I was surprised how many Macs were selling here. Apparently, supporting Asian fonts was considered a benefit by Asians. It took awhile, but MS started to offer ways to support kanji and the Apple market gains vanished like a blip on a radar screen.
I was doing work for Chevron when they wanted to switch their entire operations to Apple systems. We jumped through tremendous hoops to be allowed by Apple to migrate critical tools to Macs. Even so the process for us was painful and apparently for Chevron as well: Less than two years into the project they abandoned it as futile.
Scoble’s point that Apple has been limited by their act of limiting developers is exactly correct.
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I always get a kick out of people who mention the “tipping point”. MS has been making big mistakes for a long time, but Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. Don’t expect Longhorn or Vista or Ballmer’s comments to be that magic point either. Every big enterprise makes mistakes (Newton).
When I first came to Japan in 1989 I was surprised how many Macs were selling here. Apparently, supporting Asian fonts was considered a benefit by Asians. It took awhile, but MS started to offer ways to support kanji and the Apple market gains vanished like a blip on a radar screen.
I was doing work for Chevron when they wanted to switch their entire operations to Apple systems. We jumped through tremendous hoops to be allowed by Apple to migrate critical tools to Macs. Even so the process for us was painful and apparently for Chevron as well: Less than two years into the project they abandoned it as futile.
Scoble’s point that Apple has been limited by their act of limiting developers is exactly correct.
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@anona – OK – be petty if you want and no, I’m not daft but charaterise me that way if it suits your position.
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@anona – OK – be petty if you want and no, I’m not daft but charaterise me that way if it suits your position.
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@anona – OK – be petty if you want and no, I’m not daft but charaterise me that way if it suits your position.
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Robert,
I’m not talking about the Apple of the 1990’s but that of today. Today’s Apple assumes it’s users are smart, for better or worse. They put out tools and get out of the way to let creative people figure out clever ways to use them. Microsoft just cannot bring itself to get out of the way. That’s not bad, or good, just different. In fact, it used to be the other way around. Way back when MS was selling great compilers and stuff. The old Apple assumed that developers were dumb and couldn’t write software that conformed to their lofty ideals (and they were probably right, it’s hard to get the UI right). Thus, the made an intentionally(?) high barrier to entry for developers. Only those passionate enough would be willing to push over the barrier. This means you get fewer but generally better apps.
I also don’t think it’s an accident that Apple has left the iPhone and AppleTV so easy to hack. Heck people even have a terminal running on the iPhone. (Anyone there got that up and running?) While you guys are there trying to figure out how to play by the rules, there’s another world trying to circumvent those rules. And making a lot of progress. It all generates excitement.
Like I said before (on Macintouch), what we need is an iPAMP (iPhone, Apache, MySQL, PHP) server for running all those cool apps the guys there are developing offline. Fortunately, our backroom hacker brothers and sisters are getting fairly close to making this a reality.
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Robert,
I’m not talking about the Apple of the 1990’s but that of today. Today’s Apple assumes it’s users are smart, for better or worse. They put out tools and get out of the way to let creative people figure out clever ways to use them. Microsoft just cannot bring itself to get out of the way. That’s not bad, or good, just different. In fact, it used to be the other way around. Way back when MS was selling great compilers and stuff. The old Apple assumed that developers were dumb and couldn’t write software that conformed to their lofty ideals (and they were probably right, it’s hard to get the UI right). Thus, the made an intentionally(?) high barrier to entry for developers. Only those passionate enough would be willing to push over the barrier. This means you get fewer but generally better apps.
I also don’t think it’s an accident that Apple has left the iPhone and AppleTV so easy to hack. Heck people even have a terminal running on the iPhone. (Anyone there got that up and running?) While you guys are there trying to figure out how to play by the rules, there’s another world trying to circumvent those rules. And making a lot of progress. It all generates excitement.
Like I said before (on Macintouch), what we need is an iPAMP (iPhone, Apache, MySQL, PHP) server for running all those cool apps the guys there are developing offline. Fortunately, our backroom hacker brothers and sisters are getting fairly close to making this a reality.
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Robert,
I’m not talking about the Apple of the 1990’s but that of today. Today’s Apple assumes it’s users are smart, for better or worse. They put out tools and get out of the way to let creative people figure out clever ways to use them. Microsoft just cannot bring itself to get out of the way. That’s not bad, or good, just different. In fact, it used to be the other way around. Way back when MS was selling great compilers and stuff. The old Apple assumed that developers were dumb and couldn’t write software that conformed to their lofty ideals (and they were probably right, it’s hard to get the UI right). Thus, the made an intentionally(?) high barrier to entry for developers. Only those passionate enough would be willing to push over the barrier. This means you get fewer but generally better apps.
I also don’t think it’s an accident that Apple has left the iPhone and AppleTV so easy to hack. Heck people even have a terminal running on the iPhone. (Anyone there got that up and running?) While you guys are there trying to figure out how to play by the rules, there’s another world trying to circumvent those rules. And making a lot of progress. It all generates excitement.
Like I said before (on Macintouch), what we need is an iPAMP (iPhone, Apache, MySQL, PHP) server for running all those cool apps the guys there are developing offline. Fortunately, our backroom hacker brothers and sisters are getting fairly close to making this a reality.
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Dennis H
“This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies.”
Actually other than the iPhone ( right now ) this is how many would describe the tools , environment and opportunities presented by Apple at this moment in time, your right its not the same as it was in the 80s90s, Im sure many a developer has war stories of that time for doing even the simplest things ( see Chevron post above ) I believe Apple , like IBM understands the future is open and no one, can extrapolate the future from one event, ( I know you did not, but RS is) Im sure I can find many that went to MS events last year for anything and when they left said to themselves “man thats why Linux, Mac whatever, will win in the end” Anyway In a few years Everything will be so different than it is today that we will , most of us , enjoy the ride , the “Cluetrain” is even more important today than it ever was.
BK
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Dennis H
“This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies.”
Actually other than the iPhone ( right now ) this is how many would describe the tools , environment and opportunities presented by Apple at this moment in time, your right its not the same as it was in the 80s90s, Im sure many a developer has war stories of that time for doing even the simplest things ( see Chevron post above ) I believe Apple , like IBM understands the future is open and no one, can extrapolate the future from one event, ( I know you did not, but RS is) Im sure I can find many that went to MS events last year for anything and when they left said to themselves “man thats why Linux, Mac whatever, will win in the end” Anyway In a few years Everything will be so different than it is today that we will , most of us , enjoy the ride , the “Cluetrain” is even more important today than it ever was.
BK
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Dennis H
“This is a world where vendors are attractive to the extent that they allow creative developers to execute their ideas by the ease with which they can apply their ideas to new technologies.”
Actually other than the iPhone ( right now ) this is how many would describe the tools , environment and opportunities presented by Apple at this moment in time, your right its not the same as it was in the 80s90s, Im sure many a developer has war stories of that time for doing even the simplest things ( see Chevron post above ) I believe Apple , like IBM understands the future is open and no one, can extrapolate the future from one event, ( I know you did not, but RS is) Im sure I can find many that went to MS events last year for anything and when they left said to themselves “man thats why Linux, Mac whatever, will win in the end” Anyway In a few years Everything will be so different than it is today that we will , most of us , enjoy the ride , the “Cluetrain” is even more important today than it ever was.
BK
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The difference is Apples and well…
Apple is a hardware company, MS a software company. MS thrived because they listened to developers and Apple is growing because of the product designers they hire.
The company that comes to mind when you say listening to developers is Macromedia (now Adobe). Just look at the rapid development of Flash and Dreamweaver. All “flash sucks” comments aside, look at it’s penetration and use. It became that way by listening to it’s developers. Just funny that this latest hardware doesn’t use that software.
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The difference is Apples and well…
Apple is a hardware company, MS a software company. MS thrived because they listened to developers and Apple is growing because of the product designers they hire.
The company that comes to mind when you say listening to developers is Macromedia (now Adobe). Just look at the rapid development of Flash and Dreamweaver. All “flash sucks” comments aside, look at it’s penetration and use. It became that way by listening to it’s developers. Just funny that this latest hardware doesn’t use that software.
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The difference is Apples and well…
Apple is a hardware company, MS a software company. MS thrived because they listened to developers and Apple is growing because of the product designers they hire.
The company that comes to mind when you say listening to developers is Macromedia (now Adobe). Just look at the rapid development of Flash and Dreamweaver. All “flash sucks” comments aside, look at it’s penetration and use. It became that way by listening to it’s developers. Just funny that this latest hardware doesn’t use that software.
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“Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. ”
It’s not Apple that will topple the empire, it’s the empire’s own subjects, and the toppling is well underway. Apple will be a major beneficiary, as will the Linux vendors.
Too bad for Gasee that he didn’t launch Be this year. MS’s power to twist the OEM’s arms has been drastically curtailed since Vista landed with a thud.
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“Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. ”
It’s not Apple that will topple the empire, it’s the empire’s own subjects, and the toppling is well underway. Apple will be a major beneficiary, as will the Linux vendors.
Too bad for Gasee that he didn’t launch Be this year. MS’s power to twist the OEM’s arms has been drastically curtailed since Vista landed with a thud.
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“Apple has never been able to turn them into a tipping point. ”
It’s not Apple that will topple the empire, it’s the empire’s own subjects, and the toppling is well underway. Apple will be a major beneficiary, as will the Linux vendors.
Too bad for Gasee that he didn’t launch Be this year. MS’s power to twist the OEM’s arms has been drastically curtailed since Vista landed with a thud.
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You guys are hilarious. I’m a designer, i.e., full on member of the apple cult.
Goddamit, I should be buying apple stock instead of….
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You guys are hilarious. I’m a designer, i.e., full on member of the apple cult.
Goddamit, I should be buying apple stock instead of….
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You guys are hilarious. I’m a designer, i.e., full on member of the apple cult.
Goddamit, I should be buying apple stock instead of….
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Microshit is so game over. Garbageware is soo 90’s
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Microshit is so game over. Garbageware is soo 90’s
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Microshit is so game over. Garbageware is soo 90’s
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Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
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Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
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Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
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Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
LikeLike
Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
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Dave Fortuna,
I would cut the empire some slack w/r/t hiring foreigners. The fact is, the number of Americans willing to work for them has been sharply curtailed by Ballmer’s mismanagement, and the end of the “work here five years and be a millionaire” scenario.
Any kid coming out of school now who gets offers from Microsoft or a start-up would have to be nuts to pass on the start-up, where they still have a chance of getting rich, or at least leaving without a major stain on their resume.
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@68 “Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.”
Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod. And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released. Apple is doing nothing different than what they did after Jobs visited PARC in 1979.
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@68 “Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.”
Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod. And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released. Apple is doing nothing different than what they did after Jobs visited PARC in 1979.
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@68 “Dude, what, for example, was the iPod/iTunes phenomenon, if not recognizing and leading change?
Ballmer apes change, Jobs creates it.”
Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod. And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released. Apple is doing nothing different than what they did after Jobs visited PARC in 1979.
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“Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod.”
If you can’t tell the difference between invention and innovation, there isn’t much I can do to help you. Apple is not in the invention business.
“And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released.”
Obviously, you think Apple is in the ‘features’ business. You really are oblivious to what has made AAPL a $115 billion business in about 5 years, aren’t you?
Get a clue.
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“Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod.”
If you can’t tell the difference between invention and innovation, there isn’t much I can do to help you. Apple is not in the invention business.
“And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released.”
Obviously, you think Apple is in the ‘features’ business. You really are oblivious to what has made AAPL a $115 billion business in about 5 years, aren’t you?
Get a clue.
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“Uhhhh,..please tell me you aren’t suggesting that this technology did not exist before Apple released the iPod.”
If you can’t tell the difference between invention and innovation, there isn’t much I can do to help you. Apple is not in the invention business.
“And that the features on the iPhone didn’t exist before the iPhone released.”
Obviously, you think Apple is in the ‘features’ business. You really are oblivious to what has made AAPL a $115 billion business in about 5 years, aren’t you?
Get a clue.
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Yawn… spoken like a true corporate kiss-ass living in the past. Developers want/need openness, not t-shirts, stickers and “free” (hah!) dev tools, and MS isn’t delivering any more then Apple.
That’s how MS got 90% market share? Now that’s rewriting history…
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Yawn… spoken like a true corporate kiss-ass living in the past. Developers want/need openness, not t-shirts, stickers and “free” (hah!) dev tools, and MS isn’t delivering any more then Apple.
That’s how MS got 90% market share? Now that’s rewriting history…
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Yawn… spoken like a true corporate kiss-ass living in the past. Developers want/need openness, not t-shirts, stickers and “free” (hah!) dev tools, and MS isn’t delivering any more then Apple.
That’s how MS got 90% market share? Now that’s rewriting history…
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Rick: MS is a LOT more open than Apple is. Windows Mobile has a solid API, a solid runtime, and tons of apps shipping on it.
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Rick: MS is a LOT more open than Apple is. Windows Mobile has a solid API, a solid runtime, and tons of apps shipping on it.
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Jesus christ I really need to stop reading this weblog. There’s so much wrong with just this one post, I’m amazed.
Robert, you’re not a programmer and never will be. Why do you think you’re qualified to write about the developer relations different companies carry out?
Xcode is free with every copy of Mac OS X, Visual Studio costs money. Microsoft t-shirts and stickers suck. If you ask Microsoft evangelists hard questions they dodge them and get defensive and pissy the way you do, Robert.
Microsoft got market share from breaking the law and getting lucky (remember IBM and DOS?). How you could fail to mention that in a discussion of market share is beyond me. Does it bother you that you worked for a company that repeatededly, intentionally broke the law for years?
Apple’s developer documentation is much higher-quality. MSDN sucks. You don’t know about these things because you aren’t a programmer. You don’t understand why a language that is merely “Java done right” with 80+ keywords and more on the way is uninspiring.
Bill Gates’s keynotes suck and the people that prepare them should be fired, not praised.
To say that MS is more open than Apple is is laughable. You don’t know why IronRuby is going to take a long time to release, but a major factor is that Microsoft fires anyone who looks at open source/free software code. How is that open?
Go ahead and defend the convicted monopolist megacorporation if you want, fatty.
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Jesus christ I really need to stop reading this weblog. There’s so much wrong with just this one post, I’m amazed.
Robert, you’re not a programmer and never will be. Why do you think you’re qualified to write about the developer relations different companies carry out?
Xcode is free with every copy of Mac OS X, Visual Studio costs money. Microsoft t-shirts and stickers suck. If you ask Microsoft evangelists hard questions they dodge them and get defensive and pissy the way you do, Robert.
Microsoft got market share from breaking the law and getting lucky (remember IBM and DOS?). How you could fail to mention that in a discussion of market share is beyond me. Does it bother you that you worked for a company that repeatededly, intentionally broke the law for years?
Apple’s developer documentation is much higher-quality. MSDN sucks. You don’t know about these things because you aren’t a programmer. You don’t understand why a language that is merely “Java done right” with 80+ keywords and more on the way is uninspiring.
Bill Gates’s keynotes suck and the people that prepare them should be fired, not praised.
To say that MS is more open than Apple is is laughable. You don’t know why IronRuby is going to take a long time to release, but a major factor is that Microsoft fires anyone who looks at open source/free software code. How is that open?
Go ahead and defend the convicted monopolist megacorporation if you want, fatty.
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metacircular: Microsoft gives away a free version of Visual Studio.
Apple’s developer documentation is higher quality? Not according to any of the iPhone developers I talked with tonight.
Microsoft got its market share by serving developers, and making shrewd business decisions. It wasn’t until the late 1990s when they started breaking the law. By then they had monopoly market share.
This isn’t about open source.
Have you looked at the iPhone? Really?
Were you an Apple developer back in 1989? Do you remember how bad the developer tools were compared to Microsoft’s tools? I do. I don’t need to be a developer. I know plenty of developers who lived through those cycles.
And anyone who pulls out “fatty” as an insult doesn’t deserve to be listened to. Go back to Digg. It’s pretty obvious you are an idiot.
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metacircular: Microsoft gives away a free version of Visual Studio.
Apple’s developer documentation is higher quality? Not according to any of the iPhone developers I talked with tonight.
Microsoft got its market share by serving developers, and making shrewd business decisions. It wasn’t until the late 1990s when they started breaking the law. By then they had monopoly market share.
This isn’t about open source.
Have you looked at the iPhone? Really?
Were you an Apple developer back in 1989? Do you remember how bad the developer tools were compared to Microsoft’s tools? I do. I don’t need to be a developer. I know plenty of developers who lived through those cycles.
And anyone who pulls out “fatty” as an insult doesn’t deserve to be listened to. Go back to Digg. It’s pretty obvious you are an idiot.
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metacircular: Microsoft gives away a free version of Visual Studio.
Apple’s developer documentation is higher quality? Not according to any of the iPhone developers I talked with tonight.
Microsoft got its market share by serving developers, and making shrewd business decisions. It wasn’t until the late 1990s when they started breaking the law. By then they had monopoly market share.
This isn’t about open source.
Have you looked at the iPhone? Really?
Were you an Apple developer back in 1989? Do you remember how bad the developer tools were compared to Microsoft’s tools? I do. I don’t need to be a developer. I know plenty of developers who lived through those cycles.
And anyone who pulls out “fatty” as an insult doesn’t deserve to be listened to. Go back to Digg. It’s pretty obvious you are an idiot.
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As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers). This was all starting in 1992. I had a front-row seat to how Microsoft gained market share. I was back stage during Access 1.0 and Office 1.0 launches. Much of my career has been working with programmers and studying why they do the things that they do.
Many many programmers came up to me today at the Apple event and said I was right.
Go read Dori Smith. She’s been in the programming community a LONG time. http://www.backupbrain.com — she says she’s been saying exactly this about Apple for years. That they HURT developers by not showing up and by being secretive.
She’s not the only one.
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As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers). This was all starting in 1992. I had a front-row seat to how Microsoft gained market share. I was back stage during Access 1.0 and Office 1.0 launches. Much of my career has been working with programmers and studying why they do the things that they do.
Many many programmers came up to me today at the Apple event and said I was right.
Go read Dori Smith. She’s been in the programming community a LONG time. http://www.backupbrain.com — she says she’s been saying exactly this about Apple for years. That they HURT developers by not showing up and by being secretive.
She’s not the only one.
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As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers). This was all starting in 1992. I had a front-row seat to how Microsoft gained market share. I was back stage during Access 1.0 and Office 1.0 launches. Much of my career has been working with programmers and studying why they do the things that they do.
Many many programmers came up to me today at the Apple event and said I was right.
Go read Dori Smith. She’s been in the programming community a LONG time. http://www.backupbrain.com — she says she’s been saying exactly this about Apple for years. That they HURT developers by not showing up and by being secretive.
She’s not the only one.
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“she says she’s been saying exactly this about Apple for years.”
And she’s angling for a job at Apple? Coincidence? You be the judge.
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“she says she’s been saying exactly this about Apple for years.”
And she’s angling for a job at Apple? Coincidence? You be the judge.
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Mac is always trying to go it alone. there is cbit and other tech fairs and there is “Mac world”. They’re on their own planet and at the same time tryin to “be in everyhousehold and living room”, come on, with 5% market and tools only perfessional service people know how to fix? Microsoft goes with every PC and laptop and people like me can make it work with any hardware i want in my box, that’s why 90% of the world uses it.
As for phones and palms, Windows moble is everywhere but where is Mac? only eventually in the iphone. when it comes down to it not every one wants the “hip” thing, we just want it easyly avalible and on any platform we like and the is where Windows wins yet again.
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Mac is always trying to go it alone. there is cbit and other tech fairs and there is “Mac world”. They’re on their own planet and at the same time tryin to “be in everyhousehold and living room”, come on, with 5% market and tools only perfessional service people know how to fix? Microsoft goes with every PC and laptop and people like me can make it work with any hardware i want in my box, that’s why 90% of the world uses it.
As for phones and palms, Windows moble is everywhere but where is Mac? only eventually in the iphone. when it comes down to it not every one wants the “hip” thing, we just want it easyly avalible and on any platform we like and the is where Windows wins yet again.
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Mac is always trying to go it alone. there is cbit and other tech fairs and there is “Mac world”. They’re on their own planet and at the same time tryin to “be in everyhousehold and living room”, come on, with 5% market and tools only perfessional service people know how to fix? Microsoft goes with every PC and laptop and people like me can make it work with any hardware i want in my box, that’s why 90% of the world uses it.
As for phones and palms, Windows moble is everywhere but where is Mac? only eventually in the iphone. when it comes down to it not every one wants the “hip” thing, we just want it easyly avalible and on any platform we like and the is where Windows wins yet again.
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Your history’s faulty. I do remember 1989 and Apple had no sort of lead at all. The world was ruled by DOS and Apple was a minor player. The Mac has never had a commanding lead in the market. It’s never crossed beyond 20% market share at the best.
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Your history’s faulty. I do remember 1989 and Apple had no sort of lead at all. The world was ruled by DOS and Apple was a minor player. The Mac has never had a commanding lead in the market. It’s never crossed beyond 20% market share at the best.
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Your history’s faulty. I do remember 1989 and Apple had no sort of lead at all. The world was ruled by DOS and Apple was a minor player. The Mac has never had a commanding lead in the market. It’s never crossed beyond 20% market share at the best.
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Apple are overated. All you apple fans talk up so much how good they are but seriously. Iphone.
-2g talk about SLOW!
-only one network. great…..
-copy + paste? anyone? but its so useful?(especially when you dont have a keyboard) nope? ok.
OS X is fine if you want to use the web or listen to some music but once you get into the real world hardly any appz work. Where I work at a large University they just gave the go ahead to stop getting macs. They dont work with SO many things that employees use.
How about apple make a real App like exchange? rather than making an OS where all the hard things have already been done by unix and you just build ontop of it.
market share anyone? how many macs are used? yeah exactly.
goodluck to the over-hyped over-priced over-rated iphone
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Apple are overated. All you apple fans talk up so much how good they are but seriously. Iphone.
-2g talk about SLOW!
-only one network. great…..
-copy + paste? anyone? but its so useful?(especially when you dont have a keyboard) nope? ok.
OS X is fine if you want to use the web or listen to some music but once you get into the real world hardly any appz work. Where I work at a large University they just gave the go ahead to stop getting macs. They dont work with SO many things that employees use.
How about apple make a real App like exchange? rather than making an OS where all the hard things have already been done by unix and you just build ontop of it.
market share anyone? how many macs are used? yeah exactly.
goodluck to the over-hyped over-priced over-rated iphone
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Robert,
All the talks I’ve been having Microsoft recently are ALL about reaching out into the community. The conversations about actual products are very much secondary.
There’s a social side to MSFT that Apple just does not have.
I agree with you that Apple have a huge opportunity with the iPhone. We’ll see how long they can keep hold of it.
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Robert,
All the talks I’ve been having Microsoft recently are ALL about reaching out into the community. The conversations about actual products are very much secondary.
There’s a social side to MSFT that Apple just does not have.
I agree with you that Apple have a huge opportunity with the iPhone. We’ll see how long they can keep hold of it.
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Ooops. Meant to say, “All the talks I’ve been having WITH Microsoft…”
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Ooops. Meant to say, “All the talks I’ve been having WITH Microsoft…”
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Robert, you may be correct that it is in Apple’s interest to attend more of these type of development conferences.
But, it is a bad inference from of Apple vs. Microsoft OS battle of the 80 and 90’s to draw such a conclusion. The article would have been better had you focussed on what Apples says is in its best interests and then shown how by not showing up at these development conferences, Apple is misunderstanding its best interests.
Here is why the inference is bad. The OS battle is largely misunderstood. But, you in fact provided the correct clues to why Apple lost the OS war in terms of market share.
You said about OS/2 ” I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.”
Same experience with a Mac machine. Jobs recently made the same remark -more people were using non-Mac software and network effects largely confined Mac users to environments outside IT departments. Jobs seems resigned to that reality for the Mac continuing.
It is worthwhile to note, also, some of the losers in the computer PC hardware business: IBM, Compaq, etc.
The apps weren’t there because MS was “kind” to developers. Remember all the MS vaporware announcements? But the number of apps overwhelmed the buying public, who wanted, in effect, a Turing machine for a computer. Despite only using 2-3 apps, the public generally accepted that it “needed” a machine capable of doing anything.
(One might argue, that, MS actually “lost” the OS war in that its biggest competitor is itself -getting those pesky window’s 95, 98 and XP users to upgrade.)
Jobs et. al. have always been about reducing individual choice, eg the human interface restrictions. Now they are consciously producing digital gadgets and not Turing machines.
The iPod was a success because it was a well designed gadget that fit pretty much with what people wanted it do, in an elegant manner, and provided individuals with the ability to pay for music online.
Are mobile phones gadgets or Turing machines? Is the browser an acceptable interface to the OS, or do you need a SDK for a mobile phone? Is an iPhone a mobile phone/browser or is a wireless tablet? Apple has made its bet, consistent with its past decisions. Whether they are right or wrong has little to do with they are “friendly” with developers, or not.
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Robert, you may be correct that it is in Apple’s interest to attend more of these type of development conferences.
But, it is a bad inference from of Apple vs. Microsoft OS battle of the 80 and 90’s to draw such a conclusion. The article would have been better had you focussed on what Apples says is in its best interests and then shown how by not showing up at these development conferences, Apple is misunderstanding its best interests.
Here is why the inference is bad. The OS battle is largely misunderstood. But, you in fact provided the correct clues to why Apple lost the OS war in terms of market share.
You said about OS/2 ” I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.”
Same experience with a Mac machine. Jobs recently made the same remark -more people were using non-Mac software and network effects largely confined Mac users to environments outside IT departments. Jobs seems resigned to that reality for the Mac continuing.
It is worthwhile to note, also, some of the losers in the computer PC hardware business: IBM, Compaq, etc.
The apps weren’t there because MS was “kind” to developers. Remember all the MS vaporware announcements? But the number of apps overwhelmed the buying public, who wanted, in effect, a Turing machine for a computer. Despite only using 2-3 apps, the public generally accepted that it “needed” a machine capable of doing anything.
(One might argue, that, MS actually “lost” the OS war in that its biggest competitor is itself -getting those pesky window’s 95, 98 and XP users to upgrade.)
Jobs et. al. have always been about reducing individual choice, eg the human interface restrictions. Now they are consciously producing digital gadgets and not Turing machines.
The iPod was a success because it was a well designed gadget that fit pretty much with what people wanted it do, in an elegant manner, and provided individuals with the ability to pay for music online.
Are mobile phones gadgets or Turing machines? Is the browser an acceptable interface to the OS, or do you need a SDK for a mobile phone? Is an iPhone a mobile phone/browser or is a wireless tablet? Apple has made its bet, consistent with its past decisions. Whether they are right or wrong has little to do with they are “friendly” with developers, or not.
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Robert, you may be correct that it is in Apple’s interest to attend more of these type of development conferences.
But, it is a bad inference from of Apple vs. Microsoft OS battle of the 80 and 90’s to draw such a conclusion. The article would have been better had you focussed on what Apples says is in its best interests and then shown how by not showing up at these development conferences, Apple is misunderstanding its best interests.
Here is why the inference is bad. The OS battle is largely misunderstood. But, you in fact provided the correct clues to why Apple lost the OS war in terms of market share.
You said about OS/2 ” I had it loaded and I kept being forced back to Windows cause Windows had more apps and everyone around me had those same apps.”
Same experience with a Mac machine. Jobs recently made the same remark -more people were using non-Mac software and network effects largely confined Mac users to environments outside IT departments. Jobs seems resigned to that reality for the Mac continuing.
It is worthwhile to note, also, some of the losers in the computer PC hardware business: IBM, Compaq, etc.
The apps weren’t there because MS was “kind” to developers. Remember all the MS vaporware announcements? But the number of apps overwhelmed the buying public, who wanted, in effect, a Turing machine for a computer. Despite only using 2-3 apps, the public generally accepted that it “needed” a machine capable of doing anything.
(One might argue, that, MS actually “lost” the OS war in that its biggest competitor is itself -getting those pesky window’s 95, 98 and XP users to upgrade.)
Jobs et. al. have always been about reducing individual choice, eg the human interface restrictions. Now they are consciously producing digital gadgets and not Turing machines.
The iPod was a success because it was a well designed gadget that fit pretty much with what people wanted it do, in an elegant manner, and provided individuals with the ability to pay for music online.
Are mobile phones gadgets or Turing machines? Is the browser an acceptable interface to the OS, or do you need a SDK for a mobile phone? Is an iPhone a mobile phone/browser or is a wireless tablet? Apple has made its bet, consistent with its past decisions. Whether they are right or wrong has little to do with they are “friendly” with developers, or not.
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The lack of love for developers should be a massive concern for those stock holders in the apple orchard. I know people were pretty upset by the safari only web apps for the iphone, and now they refuse to rep? They should step out of the sharper image hallogen spot light and refocus their spotlight on what matters. The developing community that will make or break their future.
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The lack of love for developers should be a massive concern for those stock holders in the apple orchard. I know people were pretty upset by the safari only web apps for the iphone, and now they refuse to rep? They should step out of the sharper image hallogen spot light and refocus their spotlight on what matters. The developing community that will make or break their future.
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Not sure why the surprise, this is Apple’s traditional (and proven)business model – make a new market with a closed value chain and then sit back and cream c 10 – 20% of the game you created into perpetuity with a massive surplus.
Whats not to like if you’re Apple?
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Not sure why the surprise, this is Apple’s traditional (and proven)business model – make a new market with a closed value chain and then sit back and cream c 10 – 20% of the game you created into perpetuity with a massive surplus.
Whats not to like if you’re Apple?
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PS I use Wintel / open source in preference, but I admire the Apple strategy. And *someone* needed to kick the phone handset manufacturers in the pants……..
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PS I use Wintel / open source in preference, but I admire the Apple strategy. And *someone* needed to kick the phone handset manufacturers in the pants……..
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@87 “If you can’t tell the difference between invention and innovation, there isn’t much I can do to help you. Apple is not in the invention business.”
By that definition either is MS. Now, we can debate who does “innovation” better. Clearly Apple does, but then again they control both the hardware and the software (what was someone saying about openness?). But, I guess one’s man’s “apeing” is another man’s “innovation”
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@87 “If you can’t tell the difference between invention and innovation, there isn’t much I can do to help you. Apple is not in the invention business.”
By that definition either is MS. Now, we can debate who does “innovation” better. Clearly Apple does, but then again they control both the hardware and the software (what was someone saying about openness?). But, I guess one’s man’s “apeing” is another man’s “innovation”
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Well no matter who from Microsoft was there, at least someone was there. It is not easy being a mobile developer and now you have to find things out about Apple iphone development from other blogs like this one and on Real Tech by Burning Bird: http://realtech.burningbird.net/devices/hello-iphone/
We work with the Microsoft emerging business team as a SaaS partner and although it seems like it takes an eternity sometimes to get things done, we do get some perks and special development support….and hoepfully some marketing support soon as well. They are at least trying….but having worked with large companies before, I know you have to have the patience of a saint. Marc Andreessen says it well on his The Moby Dick theory of big companies post: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the-pmarca-gu-3.html.
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Well no matter who from Microsoft was there, at least someone was there. It is not easy being a mobile developer and now you have to find things out about Apple iphone development from other blogs like this one and on Real Tech by Burning Bird: http://realtech.burningbird.net/devices/hello-iphone/
We work with the Microsoft emerging business team as a SaaS partner and although it seems like it takes an eternity sometimes to get things done, we do get some perks and special development support….and hoepfully some marketing support soon as well. They are at least trying….but having worked with large companies before, I know you have to have the patience of a saint. Marc Andreessen says it well on his The Moby Dick theory of big companies post: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the-pmarca-gu-3.html.
LikeLike
Well no matter who from Microsoft was there, at least someone was there. It is not easy being a mobile developer and now you have to find things out about Apple iphone development from other blogs like this one and on Real Tech by Burning Bird: http://realtech.burningbird.net/devices/hello-iphone/
We work with the Microsoft emerging business team as a SaaS partner and although it seems like it takes an eternity sometimes to get things done, we do get some perks and special development support….and hoepfully some marketing support soon as well. They are at least trying….but having worked with large companies before, I know you have to have the patience of a saint. Marc Andreessen says it well on his The Moby Dick theory of big companies post: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the-pmarca-gu-3.html.
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@92.”As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers)”
Isn’t that sort of like saying Roger Ebert can be an Academy Award winning movie director?…afterall he must know his stuff; he writes about it. Sheesh!
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@92.”As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers)”
Isn’t that sort of like saying Roger Ebert can be an Academy Award winning movie director?…afterall he must know his stuff; he writes about it. Sheesh!
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@92.”As to my qualifications: I worked on a computer programming magazine (BasicPro, then Visual Basic Programmer’s Journal. Then moved to planning conferences for programmers)”
Isn’t that sort of like saying Roger Ebert can be an Academy Award winning movie director?…afterall he must know his stuff; he writes about it. Sheesh!
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LayZ: did I say I could develop? No. I said I knew what developers wanted because I hang with them. Over and over yesterday people came up to me at the iPhoneDevCamp and said “you’re right, where’s Apple?”
I’m just the messenger here and I AM qualified to be that messenger.
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LayZ: did I say I could develop? No. I said I knew what developers wanted because I hang with them. Over and over yesterday people came up to me at the iPhoneDevCamp and said “you’re right, where’s Apple?”
I’m just the messenger here and I AM qualified to be that messenger.
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LayZ: did I say I could develop? No. I said I knew what developers wanted because I hang with them. Over and over yesterday people came up to me at the iPhoneDevCamp and said “you’re right, where’s Apple?”
I’m just the messenger here and I AM qualified to be that messenger.
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Robert, I notice in your qualifications you didn’t mention a single bit about anything to do with Mac development, let alone OS X development, which is an entirely different ball game. Try actually looking at what Apple offers before you start making your comments. If you want real credibility you’ll research before posting and just say you don’t know when you haven’t had experience with something. Trying to paint what you have been told by others as your own experience is bad. Do I make a large number of comments about Windows development? No, because I don’t have a huge amount of experience with Windows development. My comments on developer relations with MS are largely based on their allowing staff blogs and an open bug database (two things that developers would love Apple to do).
That said, I see nothing worthwhile on Windows development wise that would make me switch from being a Mac developer. It’s just too hard to be successful as an indie on Windows compared to the Mac
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Robert, I notice in your qualifications you didn’t mention a single bit about anything to do with Mac development, let alone OS X development, which is an entirely different ball game. Try actually looking at what Apple offers before you start making your comments. If you want real credibility you’ll research before posting and just say you don’t know when you haven’t had experience with something. Trying to paint what you have been told by others as your own experience is bad. Do I make a large number of comments about Windows development? No, because I don’t have a huge amount of experience with Windows development. My comments on developer relations with MS are largely based on their allowing staff blogs and an open bug database (two things that developers would love Apple to do).
That said, I see nothing worthwhile on Windows development wise that would make me switch from being a Mac developer. It’s just too hard to be successful as an indie on Windows compared to the Mac
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Robert, I notice in your qualifications you didn’t mention a single bit about anything to do with Mac development, let alone OS X development, which is an entirely different ball game. Try actually looking at what Apple offers before you start making your comments. If you want real credibility you’ll research before posting and just say you don’t know when you haven’t had experience with something. Trying to paint what you have been told by others as your own experience is bad. Do I make a large number of comments about Windows development? No, because I don’t have a huge amount of experience with Windows development. My comments on developer relations with MS are largely based on their allowing staff blogs and an open bug database (two things that developers would love Apple to do).
That said, I see nothing worthwhile on Windows development wise that would make me switch from being a Mac developer. It’s just too hard to be successful as an indie on Windows compared to the Mac
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Martin: you’re funny. I was using a Mac back in 1988 and was quoted in MacWorld magazine back in 1992. That was all before I switched to Windows.
You also must have missed some other key things in my life. I befriended Steve Wozniak back in 1989 and talked him out of $40,000 for our journalism department. I also sold cameras to MANY Apple developers and executives. Including Jean-Louis Gassée, who, many years later personally remembers me. He told me lots of things about Apple development.
You might have missed that last week in line I spent hours with Bill Atkinson. Apple’s first software developer. He told me all sorts of stuff about Apple.
I also worked with Dan’l Lewin, who co-founded NeXT with Steve Jobs. He now works at Microsoft and told me a lot about why Microsoft beat NeXT and Apple in the developer markets.
I could go on…
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Martin: you’re funny. I was using a Mac back in 1988 and was quoted in MacWorld magazine back in 1992. That was all before I switched to Windows.
You also must have missed some other key things in my life. I befriended Steve Wozniak back in 1989 and talked him out of $40,000 for our journalism department. I also sold cameras to MANY Apple developers and executives. Including Jean-Louis Gassée, who, many years later personally remembers me. He told me lots of things about Apple development.
You might have missed that last week in line I spent hours with Bill Atkinson. Apple’s first software developer. He told me all sorts of stuff about Apple.
I also worked with Dan’l Lewin, who co-founded NeXT with Steve Jobs. He now works at Microsoft and told me a lot about why Microsoft beat NeXT and Apple in the developer markets.
I could go on…
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Martin: you’re funny. I was using a Mac back in 1988 and was quoted in MacWorld magazine back in 1992. That was all before I switched to Windows.
You also must have missed some other key things in my life. I befriended Steve Wozniak back in 1989 and talked him out of $40,000 for our journalism department. I also sold cameras to MANY Apple developers and executives. Including Jean-Louis Gassée, who, many years later personally remembers me. He told me lots of things about Apple development.
You might have missed that last week in line I spent hours with Bill Atkinson. Apple’s first software developer. He told me all sorts of stuff about Apple.
I also worked with Dan’l Lewin, who co-founded NeXT with Steve Jobs. He now works at Microsoft and told me a lot about why Microsoft beat NeXT and Apple in the developer markets.
I could go on…
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anona @93: “And she’s angling for a job at Apple? Coincidence? You be the judge.”
I’ve been unemployed since 1998–I’m angling for a gig with ANYONE! 😉 (hey, I’ve been told Starbucks gives benefits to baristas…).
But that won’t stop me from speaking bluntly about how I see things. I’ve been blogging since 1999 and given that I’ve got years of online opinions, it’s too late for me to suddenly start playing nice.
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anona @93: “And she’s angling for a job at Apple? Coincidence? You be the judge.”
I’ve been unemployed since 1998–I’m angling for a gig with ANYONE! 😉 (hey, I’ve been told Starbucks gives benefits to baristas…).
But that won’t stop me from speaking bluntly about how I see things. I’ve been blogging since 1999 and given that I’ve got years of online opinions, it’s too late for me to suddenly start playing nice.
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So, Robert: people take you to task for having basically no coding cred at all, and you try to counter that with having worked on magazines and hanging out with Bill Atkinson, and Dan’l Lewin (who, as it happens, isn’t a software developer).
Let’s cut to the chase: show us any CODE you’ve written.
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So, Robert: people take you to task for having basically no coding cred at all, and you try to counter that with having worked on magazines and hanging out with Bill Atkinson, and Dan’l Lewin (who, as it happens, isn’t a software developer).
Let’s cut to the chase: show us any CODE you’ve written.
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History certainly isn’t repeating itself. Apple not being at this event has absolutely no bearing on the future of the iPhone. The assumption that you need hundreds or thousands of applications for the iPhone to be successful is certainly 90’s-style thinking. So is thinking that unless thousands of developers get a real SDK, the iPhone won’t be successful.
Apple doesn’t do lowest common denominator platforms. That’s been Microsoft’s business strategy since the DOS days. If you haven’t noticed, the industry is shifting away from this.
Apple intentionally doesn’t play in this space–they build a lowest common denominator platform and license it to lots of folks and let any developer do whatever they want. Sure, they could sell lots of hardware that way, but the user experience would be lost.
Yes, it was hard back in the 80’s to develop Mac software, mainly because developers were used to doing text-based apps on DOS machines and dealing with a GUI was still foreign to many of them. It was much easier to create a text app than a GUI app then. It wasn’t until Microsoft learned how to create a GUI-based operating system by developing for the Macintosh (Multiplan, Word and later, Excel) did creating a GUI app become standard.
Apple is a very clever company–it’s not coincidence that we now have Safari running on three platforms and Apple is really pushing AJAX/Web 2.0, which is pretty open. Get developers used to the challenges and constraints of doing web-based iPhone apps before they do a real SDK.
Lets talk in a year about marketshare numbers regarding the iPhone and the rest of the industry. As cool as the dev camp probably was, Apple has already turned the cell phone industry upside down–without a single vertical market app or SDK. Microsoft’s lowest common denominator strategy is a relic that will continue to fail in market after market. It already has with music and video; it will with cell phones.
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History certainly isn’t repeating itself. Apple not being at this event has absolutely no bearing on the future of the iPhone. The assumption that you need hundreds or thousands of applications for the iPhone to be successful is certainly 90’s-style thinking. So is thinking that unless thousands of developers get a real SDK, the iPhone won’t be successful.
Apple doesn’t do lowest common denominator platforms. That’s been Microsoft’s business strategy since the DOS days. If you haven’t noticed, the industry is shifting away from this.
Apple intentionally doesn’t play in this space–they build a lowest common denominator platform and license it to lots of folks and let any developer do whatever they want. Sure, they could sell lots of hardware that way, but the user experience would be lost.
Yes, it was hard back in the 80’s to develop Mac software, mainly because developers were used to doing text-based apps on DOS machines and dealing with a GUI was still foreign to many of them. It was much easier to create a text app than a GUI app then. It wasn’t until Microsoft learned how to create a GUI-based operating system by developing for the Macintosh (Multiplan, Word and later, Excel) did creating a GUI app become standard.
Apple is a very clever company–it’s not coincidence that we now have Safari running on three platforms and Apple is really pushing AJAX/Web 2.0, which is pretty open. Get developers used to the challenges and constraints of doing web-based iPhone apps before they do a real SDK.
Lets talk in a year about marketshare numbers regarding the iPhone and the rest of the industry. As cool as the dev camp probably was, Apple has already turned the cell phone industry upside down–without a single vertical market app or SDK. Microsoft’s lowest common denominator strategy is a relic that will continue to fail in market after market. It already has with music and video; it will with cell phones.
LikeLike
History certainly isn’t repeating itself. Apple not being at this event has absolutely no bearing on the future of the iPhone. The assumption that you need hundreds or thousands of applications for the iPhone to be successful is certainly 90’s-style thinking. So is thinking that unless thousands of developers get a real SDK, the iPhone won’t be successful.
Apple doesn’t do lowest common denominator platforms. That’s been Microsoft’s business strategy since the DOS days. If you haven’t noticed, the industry is shifting away from this.
Apple intentionally doesn’t play in this space–they build a lowest common denominator platform and license it to lots of folks and let any developer do whatever they want. Sure, they could sell lots of hardware that way, but the user experience would be lost.
Yes, it was hard back in the 80’s to develop Mac software, mainly because developers were used to doing text-based apps on DOS machines and dealing with a GUI was still foreign to many of them. It was much easier to create a text app than a GUI app then. It wasn’t until Microsoft learned how to create a GUI-based operating system by developing for the Macintosh (Multiplan, Word and later, Excel) did creating a GUI app become standard.
Apple is a very clever company–it’s not coincidence that we now have Safari running on three platforms and Apple is really pushing AJAX/Web 2.0, which is pretty open. Get developers used to the challenges and constraints of doing web-based iPhone apps before they do a real SDK.
Lets talk in a year about marketshare numbers regarding the iPhone and the rest of the industry. As cool as the dev camp probably was, Apple has already turned the cell phone industry upside down–without a single vertical market app or SDK. Microsoft’s lowest common denominator strategy is a relic that will continue to fail in market after market. It already has with music and video; it will with cell phones.
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Al,
I think that in the next year or so a couple of companies are going to try to make an “iPhone compatible” mobile OS platform. IOW, we’ll see companies like Palm and Symbian scrambling to bring up WebKit-based browsers. They won’t be as good as an iPhone, but they’ll probably be far cheaper.
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Al,
I think that in the next year or so a couple of companies are going to try to make an “iPhone compatible” mobile OS platform. IOW, we’ll see companies like Palm and Symbian scrambling to bring up WebKit-based browsers. They won’t be as good as an iPhone, but they’ll probably be far cheaper.
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Al,
I think that in the next year or so a couple of companies are going to try to make an “iPhone compatible” mobile OS platform. IOW, we’ll see companies like Palm and Symbian scrambling to bring up WebKit-based browsers. They won’t be as good as an iPhone, but they’ll probably be far cheaper.
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@100 Michael
I agree with you. Robert seems to want the iPhone to be an uber PDA appliance. Based on the way Apple is handling this, I’d bet that Jobs views it as a video iPod with a phone and a browser.
I don’t own an iPod, and I don’t plan to buy an iPhone. Those are consumer devices and have no appeal to me. No amount of ‘cool factor’ is going to change that for me.
Why is the phone activated through iTunes? It’s an iPod.
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@100 Michael
I agree with you. Robert seems to want the iPhone to be an uber PDA appliance. Based on the way Apple is handling this, I’d bet that Jobs views it as a video iPod with a phone and a browser.
I don’t own an iPod, and I don’t plan to buy an iPhone. Those are consumer devices and have no appeal to me. No amount of ‘cool factor’ is going to change that for me.
Why is the phone activated through iTunes? It’s an iPod.
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@100 Michael
I agree with you. Robert seems to want the iPhone to be an uber PDA appliance. Based on the way Apple is handling this, I’d bet that Jobs views it as a video iPod with a phone and a browser.
I don’t own an iPod, and I don’t plan to buy an iPhone. Those are consumer devices and have no appeal to me. No amount of ‘cool factor’ is going to change that for me.
Why is the phone activated through iTunes? It’s an iPod.
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Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
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Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
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Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
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Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
LikeLike
Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
LikeLike
Robert, all you did was list even more places you heard about Mac development from someone else and it’s all to do with Mac development in the late 80s/early 90s. So I’m going to ask you these two questions:
1. Do you have any experience of software development on the Mac since 2001?
2. Do you have any FIRST HAND experience of software development on the Mac at all?
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The iPhone is activated through iTunes because tens of millions of users on Mac OS X and Windows already use it. Yes, they use it for their iPods, but it’s pretty clear that syncing calendar and contacts data is also something else it can do.
I would argue that the iPhone is being marketed to consumers, but it’s not a consumer device. It runs OS X, which is by no means a consumer operating system. If you’ve used an iPhone, it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that this is a high end device, not a consumer cell phone with a nice UI and a browser. I get it that unless it talks natively to an Exchange server, it won’t be considered a real business device, but we know that’s coming, plus lots of other enhancements.
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The iPhone is activated through iTunes because tens of millions of users on Mac OS X and Windows already use it. Yes, they use it for their iPods, but it’s pretty clear that syncing calendar and contacts data is also something else it can do.
I would argue that the iPhone is being marketed to consumers, but it’s not a consumer device. It runs OS X, which is by no means a consumer operating system. If you’ve used an iPhone, it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that this is a high end device, not a consumer cell phone with a nice UI and a browser. I get it that unless it talks natively to an Exchange server, it won’t be considered a real business device, but we know that’s coming, plus lots of other enhancements.
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