Fortune Magazine says that AppleTV is a dud.
Apple hits back and says they are bringing YouTube to Apple TV.
UPDATE: Engadget’s Ryan Block covers Steve Jobs’ announcement at the D Conference. Jobs says that Apple TV is “a hobby.” But says lots of other things too.
How did Fortune disparage it? By calling it “Zune like.” Ouch!
Personally Fortune is right, but doesn’t quite expose the elephant standing in the middle of the room.
The elephant in the room? Simple: Apple could have really taken over the HDTV world and held it for decades. Instead it has left the door open to its competitors.
Microsoft loves competitors like Apple who leave doors open.
What am I talking about?
Do we have a wide-screen iPod yet? One that matches the form factor of my 60-inch HDTV? No. Microsoft executives say that a wide-screen, 16:9 form factor, Zune is on the way this fall.
Do we have a 16:9 1080-full-res MacBookPro out yet? No. Dell has one. So does Acer. Just look for an WUXGA screen. But Apple hasn’t shipped one of those yet in a laptop.
Do we have HDTV iTunes yet? No. But ABC.com is giving us HDTV Lost. Stage6.divx.com has tons of close-to-HDTV content. Joost is going to bring us close-to-HDTV content. Where’s Apple?
Do we have an entertainment system that joins our computers and our big screens? Microsoft has Media Center and Xbox. Plus Xbox Live now joins gamers on PCs with those on Xbox. Why hasn’t Apple made a deal with Sony yet to bring PlayStation 3 to MacBookPros?
But, actually, the AppleTV +is+ going in the right direction. Apple should take over the HDTV market. The fact that it’s not is emboldening its competitors. It’s just that AppleTV’s reliance on HDTV, without having the other parts of the ecosystem in place, is exposing Apple’s weakness in dealing with HDTV.
That said, I love my AppleTV. If you actually get some high resolution stuff into iTunes it works really well. I watch tons of stuff on my AppleTV. It’s just that folks who have a big HDTV screen expect a lot more than Apple’s delivering currently.
Scobleizer 
“Do we have a 16:9 1080-full-res MacBookPro out yet? No. Dell has one. So does Acer. Just look for an WUXGA screen. But Apple hasn’t shipped one of those yet.”
That is exactly the thing that has kept me from taking the plunge on an MBP. For that kind of money, I want more resolution in a 15″/17″. My 5 year old Sager has a 15″ 1600×1200. For $3000, I don’t want to downsize my resolution.
Now, to Apples benefit, it renders to those resolution much better than XP does (I don’t use Vista, so I can’t speak for it). Resizing things on OSX always looks better than resizing things on XP.
I’d be curious to see how 10.5 changes the game with the resolution independent UI.
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“Do we have a 16:9 1080-full-res MacBookPro out yet? No. Dell has one. So does Acer. Just look for an WUXGA screen. But Apple hasn’t shipped one of those yet.”
That is exactly the thing that has kept me from taking the plunge on an MBP. For that kind of money, I want more resolution in a 15″/17″. My 5 year old Sager has a 15″ 1600×1200. For $3000, I don’t want to downsize my resolution.
Now, to Apples benefit, it renders to those resolution much better than XP does (I don’t use Vista, so I can’t speak for it). Resizing things on OSX always looks better than resizing things on XP.
I’d be curious to see how 10.5 changes the game with the resolution independent UI.
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PS3 is an expensive also-ran in the gaming console space. I’m not sure how a Sony / Apple partnership would benefit either company, especially since they directly compete in many categories (notebooks, media devices, phones, etc). If Apple does partner with a console manufacturer (I’m not sure that this is necessary), Nintendo makes more sense.
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PS3 is an expensive also-ran in the gaming console space. I’m not sure how a Sony / Apple partnership would benefit either company, especially since they directly compete in many categories (notebooks, media devices, phones, etc). If Apple does partner with a console manufacturer (I’m not sure that this is necessary), Nintendo makes more sense.
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You did not just use the word “emboldening”.
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You did not just use the word “emboldening”.
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Why not let some Joost take the arrows, prove it out and then acquire them? (thinking about Coverflow, et al. which Apple has either bought out or licensed). They’re only going to do so much and still do it reasonably well.
I’d *LOVE* to see them buy DivX. That would so totally rock!
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Why not let some Joost take the arrows, prove it out and then acquire them? (thinking about Coverflow, et al. which Apple has either bought out or licensed). They’re only going to do so much and still do it reasonably well.
I’d *LOVE* to see them buy DivX. That would so totally rock!
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Do we have an entertainment system that joins our computers and our big screens? Microsoft has Media Center and Xbox. Plus Xbox Live now joins gamers on PCs with those on Xbox.
So why are Xbox 360 sales so abysmal in 2007? if you just use the NPD numbers, they’ve dropped 20% or so every month starting with January. Yet the Wii, which has no HD, no Hard Drive, a bare bones online presence had a 40% *increase* in sales for April. The 360 has yet to outsell the PS2. If you look at the VG numbers, since it’s launch in early November, the Wii has sold just over 7.6 million units in the US and Japan. So in what, just under seven months, they’ve sold over a million units a month. In comparison, the 360, which launched in mid-Nov of 2005 took until December of 2006 to get to that same sales level. To date, with a year head start, it’s only sold a little more than 2 million units over the Wii in the US and japan, and based on current sales rates, the Wii will be leaving it behind shortly. You STILL can’t find one.
People talk about Halo 3 creating tons of sales, but the Xbox 360 has around 9.8 million sales to date, but from what i’ve seen, around 4-5 million Halo 3 preorders. That looks more like preaching to the converted than generating new sales, and unlike Nintendo, I don’t think the 360 is generating a profit per unit yet, whereas the Wii has done so since day one.
You keep talking about HD like it’s this magic spell of success, but it’s not. If it was, the fact that the 360 *doesn’t* ship with an HD-DVD player standard would be hurting its sales vs the PS3, yet that’s obviously not happening. If HD were the ONLY factor, then the PS3 sales wouldn’t have DROPPED so badly in April after a wee uptick in March.
HD is only one aspect of it, and contrary to what you and Buzz tried to convince me of in January, HD is NOT a religious experience. It’s just prettier TV, nothing more. I have friends with HD. It’s real pretty. But that’s all. If HD was the only thing you need for a success, then the Wii and other non-HD devices would not be selling at all, much less in the kinds of quantities they are.
Stop letting your hardon for HD blind you to the other things that people who don’t live in your little tech circlejerk world care about.
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Do we have an entertainment system that joins our computers and our big screens? Microsoft has Media Center and Xbox. Plus Xbox Live now joins gamers on PCs with those on Xbox.
So why are Xbox 360 sales so abysmal in 2007? if you just use the NPD numbers, they’ve dropped 20% or so every month starting with January. Yet the Wii, which has no HD, no Hard Drive, a bare bones online presence had a 40% *increase* in sales for April. The 360 has yet to outsell the PS2. If you look at the VG numbers, since it’s launch in early November, the Wii has sold just over 7.6 million units in the US and Japan. So in what, just under seven months, they’ve sold over a million units a month. In comparison, the 360, which launched in mid-Nov of 2005 took until December of 2006 to get to that same sales level. To date, with a year head start, it’s only sold a little more than 2 million units over the Wii in the US and japan, and based on current sales rates, the Wii will be leaving it behind shortly. You STILL can’t find one.
People talk about Halo 3 creating tons of sales, but the Xbox 360 has around 9.8 million sales to date, but from what i’ve seen, around 4-5 million Halo 3 preorders. That looks more like preaching to the converted than generating new sales, and unlike Nintendo, I don’t think the 360 is generating a profit per unit yet, whereas the Wii has done so since day one.
You keep talking about HD like it’s this magic spell of success, but it’s not. If it was, the fact that the 360 *doesn’t* ship with an HD-DVD player standard would be hurting its sales vs the PS3, yet that’s obviously not happening. If HD were the ONLY factor, then the PS3 sales wouldn’t have DROPPED so badly in April after a wee uptick in March.
HD is only one aspect of it, and contrary to what you and Buzz tried to convince me of in January, HD is NOT a religious experience. It’s just prettier TV, nothing more. I have friends with HD. It’s real pretty. But that’s all. If HD was the only thing you need for a success, then the Wii and other non-HD devices would not be selling at all, much less in the kinds of quantities they are.
Stop letting your hardon for HD blind you to the other things that people who don’t live in your little tech circlejerk world care about.
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Putting aside Fortunes claimed problems with AppleTV’s feature set (btw, some of the comparisons to Zune are reaching, to say the least), the most damning part is, “You get the feeling that Apple didn’t create this thing because it was insanely great but in order to freeze competitors out of downloadable video.” Finally, the mainstream media is removing Apple’s halo. This will be quite bitter for Apple fanboys who aren’t used to seeing Apple treated like this.
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Putting aside Fortunes claimed problems with AppleTV’s feature set (btw, some of the comparisons to Zune are reaching, to say the least), the most damning part is, “You get the feeling that Apple didn’t create this thing because it was insanely great but in order to freeze competitors out of downloadable video.” Finally, the mainstream media is removing Apple’s halo. This will be quite bitter for Apple fanboys who aren’t used to seeing Apple treated like this.
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Welch, the reason Xbox 360 has “slow” sales is simply because it’s pricepoint is beyond what people expect for a game console. Despite that, its sales are tracking ahead of Xbox’s sales, at twice the price.
BTW, it’s traditional that sales drop each month from Jan through August. Wii is defying that (well, actually it’s sales were dropping until last month), but Wii is “special” in doing so.
Xbox 360 destroys Wii in game quality and game sales (both volume and attach rate). Go over to GAF and you’ll find numerous Wii owners that no longer play it or only break it out at parties.
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Welch, the reason Xbox 360 has “slow” sales is simply because it’s pricepoint is beyond what people expect for a game console. Despite that, its sales are tracking ahead of Xbox’s sales, at twice the price.
BTW, it’s traditional that sales drop each month from Jan through August. Wii is defying that (well, actually it’s sales were dropping until last month), but Wii is “special” in doing so.
Xbox 360 destroys Wii in game quality and game sales (both volume and attach rate). Go over to GAF and you’ll find numerous Wii owners that no longer play it or only break it out at parties.
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I don’t have a ton of time here, so I won’t get into the whole HD thing (aside from that, having been streaming via my 360 for years now, I sort of didn’t get what the big deal with Apple TV was), but re: the Zune comparison–
The Zune, relative to its preexisting competitors (or competitor, as the case may be) tries to add distinguishing features, like Wi-Fi and FM radio. The Apple TV, relative to its existing competitors, tries to make it easier / more visible to the average customer (I suppose). So in that regard, the comparison may be a little off. But the other notes Forbes makes are apt. I suppose both are products meant to gain a foothold in a new market, that’ll be revised / upgraded down the line.
One last thing to end on:
“Maybe the cellphone equivalent of Nintendo’s Wii.”
I can imagine it now… a different gesture for each contact! Hey, that’d actually be kind of neat. Not sure how it’d beat voice rec or even just ordinary speeddial, but it’d be kind of fun. 🙂
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I don’t have a ton of time here, so I won’t get into the whole HD thing (aside from that, having been streaming via my 360 for years now, I sort of didn’t get what the big deal with Apple TV was), but re: the Zune comparison–
The Zune, relative to its preexisting competitors (or competitor, as the case may be) tries to add distinguishing features, like Wi-Fi and FM radio. The Apple TV, relative to its existing competitors, tries to make it easier / more visible to the average customer (I suppose). So in that regard, the comparison may be a little off. But the other notes Forbes makes are apt. I suppose both are products meant to gain a foothold in a new market, that’ll be revised / upgraded down the line.
One last thing to end on:
“Maybe the cellphone equivalent of Nintendo’s Wii.”
I can imagine it now… a different gesture for each contact! Hey, that’d actually be kind of neat. Not sure how it’d beat voice rec or even just ordinary speeddial, but it’d be kind of fun. 🙂
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Jobs called the AppleTV a hobby because no one (he mentions TiVo and Microsoft) has yet been able to make it a business (i.e., profitable). And clearly Apple hasn’t either. But Jobs said he’s giving it at least another 18-24 months to grow into one. He raised download speed and quality as issues, and in time, there will be bigger pipes to homes and quality will go up.
As you say, Apple doesn’t control the Internet video download ecosystem. It depends on content providers’ willingness to make content available. Not providing a DVR (like TiVo and Microsoft) or DVD player/ripper clearly reduces Apple’s ability to make content “available”, but Apple seems committed to exploring this path, regardless of what we think is wise. Which makes for an interesting case study.
In any case, Apple had to enter at some point. AppleTV is just a toe in the water, YouTube is another toe, and other toes and feet could be placed in soon. I say “could” because it’s also not clear what’s preventing the broadcast/cable networks (especially Disney) from putting their online content through AppleTV in the same way as YouTube. Is Apple fighting advertising in the stream? Is Apple saying no due to user complexity, i.e., one version for streaming, another version for download for iPod? Are the networks asking for money (i.e., share of AppleTV sales)? Is Apple saying no as it would cut into iTunes download sales? Are the networks refusing for now while trying experiments with different models?
Clearly, the AppleTV is not as successful as Apple hoped. (It would be great to see Apple’s forecasts.) Maybe Apple misjudged the willingness of content providers to partner, their own ability to develop AppleTV software features, or the demand in the market. Maybe Apple expected the slow uptake, as they did announce the rolling revenue accrual model pretty soon after release.
In any case, this will continue to be an interesting case study going forward.
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Jobs called the AppleTV a hobby because no one (he mentions TiVo and Microsoft) has yet been able to make it a business (i.e., profitable). And clearly Apple hasn’t either. But Jobs said he’s giving it at least another 18-24 months to grow into one. He raised download speed and quality as issues, and in time, there will be bigger pipes to homes and quality will go up.
As you say, Apple doesn’t control the Internet video download ecosystem. It depends on content providers’ willingness to make content available. Not providing a DVR (like TiVo and Microsoft) or DVD player/ripper clearly reduces Apple’s ability to make content “available”, but Apple seems committed to exploring this path, regardless of what we think is wise. Which makes for an interesting case study.
In any case, Apple had to enter at some point. AppleTV is just a toe in the water, YouTube is another toe, and other toes and feet could be placed in soon. I say “could” because it’s also not clear what’s preventing the broadcast/cable networks (especially Disney) from putting their online content through AppleTV in the same way as YouTube. Is Apple fighting advertising in the stream? Is Apple saying no due to user complexity, i.e., one version for streaming, another version for download for iPod? Are the networks asking for money (i.e., share of AppleTV sales)? Is Apple saying no as it would cut into iTunes download sales? Are the networks refusing for now while trying experiments with different models?
Clearly, the AppleTV is not as successful as Apple hoped. (It would be great to see Apple’s forecasts.) Maybe Apple misjudged the willingness of content providers to partner, their own ability to develop AppleTV software features, or the demand in the market. Maybe Apple expected the slow uptake, as they did announce the rolling revenue accrual model pretty soon after release.
In any case, this will continue to be an interesting case study going forward.
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Apple TV being a “dud” (or, at least declared as such by the mainstream media) should be worrying to Apple shareholders. As Scoble has said countless times on this blog, Wall Street is interested in potential future earnings, not present actual ones. A company can make a billion dollars per day, but if expectations are that the company’s profits will remain a “only” one billion per day for the forseeable future, its stock price will be flat, in accordance with its flat earnings increase. On the other hand, if a company makes orders of magnitude less profit but has a reputation for releasing sexy products that keep increasing its profits over time, then its stock price goes up in accordane with the speculative earnings increase based on future products.
Well, AAPL’s stock price is out of whack with its earnings and is based on the perception that Jobs can do no wrong, everything he touches turns to gold, and therefore future earnings will go up and up and up. But if Apple TV is a “dud” and iPhone flops, that’ll be two straight *major* high-profile initiatives that flopped. This would cause Jobs’ “can do no wrong” perception to take a huge hit, and therefore AAPL goes back down to reasonable levels.
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Apple TV being a “dud” (or, at least declared as such by the mainstream media) should be worrying to Apple shareholders. As Scoble has said countless times on this blog, Wall Street is interested in potential future earnings, not present actual ones. A company can make a billion dollars per day, but if expectations are that the company’s profits will remain a “only” one billion per day for the forseeable future, its stock price will be flat, in accordance with its flat earnings increase. On the other hand, if a company makes orders of magnitude less profit but has a reputation for releasing sexy products that keep increasing its profits over time, then its stock price goes up in accordane with the speculative earnings increase based on future products.
Well, AAPL’s stock price is out of whack with its earnings and is based on the perception that Jobs can do no wrong, everything he touches turns to gold, and therefore future earnings will go up and up and up. But if Apple TV is a “dud” and iPhone flops, that’ll be two straight *major* high-profile initiatives that flopped. This would cause Jobs’ “can do no wrong” perception to take a huge hit, and therefore AAPL goes back down to reasonable levels.
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Ironically, I like the music and sound quality of the Zune over the iPod, granted Archos beats them both, but for a raw comparison, I am not joining the slog the Zune crowd. Zune hardware and UI interface is pretty good (still too Tobshibaish tho), but the sync app software is horrid, better with 1.3 (and 1.3 firmware) but still a mess. But with a few hacks, like the Guest Free and the ‘Mount as HD’ hack, bam it’s functional. Why Microsoft is holding back on features this late in the games (codecs/podcasts) still amazes me. But on the other hand, Apple TV is pretty pedestrian, YouTubing it up to keep the hype alive. I think people that hate the Zune, do so without even trying it, as the sound quality is better by quite a measure. And I am not the only one…Zune coming in first per CNET Crave’s recent blind iPod vs Zune challenge.
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Ironically, I like the music and sound quality of the Zune over the iPod, granted Archos beats them both, but for a raw comparison, I am not joining the slog the Zune crowd. Zune hardware and UI interface is pretty good (still too Tobshibaish tho), but the sync app software is horrid, better with 1.3 (and 1.3 firmware) but still a mess. But with a few hacks, like the Guest Free and the ‘Mount as HD’ hack, bam it’s functional. Why Microsoft is holding back on features this late in the games (codecs/podcasts) still amazes me. But on the other hand, Apple TV is pretty pedestrian, YouTubing it up to keep the hype alive. I think people that hate the Zune, do so without even trying it, as the sound quality is better by quite a measure. And I am not the only one…Zune coming in first per CNET Crave’s recent blind iPod vs Zune challenge.
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What could Apple be working on to “solve” the HD downloads problem? My guess would be a new compression algorythm for Quicktime. Using the iTunes store to establish it’s dominance they would later move to make it a standard. No one is expecting the needed ISP speed to solve this issue in the next 18 months. Google could move content into their distributed server network and feed it through local ISP networks.
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What could Apple be working on to “solve” the HD downloads problem? My guess would be a new compression algorythm for Quicktime. Using the iTunes store to establish it’s dominance they would later move to make it a standard. No one is expecting the needed ISP speed to solve this issue in the next 18 months. Google could move content into their distributed server network and feed it through local ISP networks.
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“But if Apple TV is a ‘dud’ and iPhone flops, that’ll be two straight *major* high-profile initiatives that flopped.”
Yeah, man, what if Steve dies, huh? How about Leopard flops too? What if the product that comes after iPhone 1.0 has maggots in it? What if they discover this weird bug in QuickTime 8.2 that causes one’s balls to shrink? Who’d buy AAPL then, no? Tell it like it is, man. Straight up.
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“But if Apple TV is a ‘dud’ and iPhone flops, that’ll be two straight *major* high-profile initiatives that flopped.”
Yeah, man, what if Steve dies, huh? How about Leopard flops too? What if the product that comes after iPhone 1.0 has maggots in it? What if they discover this weird bug in QuickTime 8.2 that causes one’s balls to shrink? Who’d buy AAPL then, no? Tell it like it is, man. Straight up.
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Looks like Kenny “MS Fanboy” Batson shorted Apple Stock.
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Looks like Kenny “MS Fanboy” Batson shorted Apple Stock.
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What’s a Zune? Has anyone seen one in the wild or has Microsoft given their employees and stuffed the channel so much with freebies that (really) they pretty much don’t exist?
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What’s a Zune? Has anyone seen one in the wild or has Microsoft given their employees and stuffed the channel so much with freebies that (really) they pretty much don’t exist?
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Oh, and I remembered something else:
This seems like a good time for Microsoft to integrate Soapbox with Xbox Live. Halo 3 will feature saved game recordings; Burnout did the same. They could build a user videos section, bring in the top videos on Soapbox, and host the Xbox videos on Soapbox.
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Oh, and I remembered something else:
This seems like a good time for Microsoft to integrate Soapbox with Xbox Live. Halo 3 will feature saved game recordings; Burnout did the same. They could build a user videos section, bring in the top videos on Soapbox, and host the Xbox videos on Soapbox.
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The Apple TV and the Zune are first Gen products that are simply there to establish a toehold in an
existing market,the latter genration models will be better focused.
And I agree with Christopher Coulter, the sound quality on the Zune is better than that on my ipod.
As for Roberts rants about Apples lack of certain features in some of it’s Macbooks, what’s new, this is almost always the case when it come to this kind of stuff,it comes out on the pc side of things(usually for less money as well), and Apple eventually intros it later.
Nothing new here.
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The Apple TV and the Zune are first Gen products that are simply there to establish a toehold in an
existing market,the latter genration models will be better focused.
And I agree with Christopher Coulter, the sound quality on the Zune is better than that on my ipod.
As for Roberts rants about Apples lack of certain features in some of it’s Macbooks, what’s new, this is almost always the case when it come to this kind of stuff,it comes out on the pc side of things(usually for less money as well), and Apple eventually intros it later.
Nothing new here.
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Looks like Al “Jobs Sycophant” Matt can’t stand the fact that Apple TV didn’t live up to the huge hype and is scared to death that iPhone might flop as well (due to price, mainly).
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Looks like Al “Jobs Sycophant” Matt can’t stand the fact that Apple TV didn’t live up to the huge hype and is scared to death that iPhone might flop as well (due to price, mainly).
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Looks like Al “Jobs Sycophant” Matt can’t stand the fact that Apple TV didn’t live up to the huge hype and is scared to death that iPhone might flop as well (due to price, mainly).
Comment by Kenny Batson — May 30, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
I think the iphone may be a hit, but only time will tell, will it be another ipod? no, this isn’t the same kind of market where one dominant leader(Sony) basicly left itself open to attack, the cellphone market is brutally competative with model intros every few months.
The one question that I haven’t heard anybody ask is, will the iphone be the only phone Apple intros in a few months, or are they planing on releasing possibly more than one model shortly afterwords.
food for thought.
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Looks like Al “Jobs Sycophant” Matt can’t stand the fact that Apple TV didn’t live up to the huge hype and is scared to death that iPhone might flop as well (due to price, mainly).
Comment by Kenny Batson — May 30, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
I think the iphone may be a hit, but only time will tell, will it be another ipod? no, this isn’t the same kind of market where one dominant leader(Sony) basicly left itself open to attack, the cellphone market is brutally competative with model intros every few months.
The one question that I haven’t heard anybody ask is, will the iphone be the only phone Apple intros in a few months, or are they planing on releasing possibly more than one model shortly afterwords.
food for thought.
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Welch, the reason Xbox 360 has “slow” sales is simply because it’s pricepoint is beyond what people expect for a game console. Despite that, its sales are tracking ahead of Xbox’s sales, at twice the price.
A new console is beating the previous version? That’s a notable fact? Funny, I’d have thought that it was called a “big no-shitter”, but hey, when you can’t outsell the PS2, you grab what you can I suppose.
The price thing is bullshit. If the 360 was that insanely good, it would be moving bigger numbers. The fact that it isn’t shows that people don’t want the same thing with higher specs.
BTW, it’s traditional that sales drop each month from Jan through August. Wii is defying that (well, actually it’s sales were dropping until last month), but Wii is “special” in doing so.
Even dropping, it was still outselling the 360 and the PS3. So much for HD being a requirement for success.
Xbox 360 destroys Wii in game quality and game sales (both volume and attach rate). Go over to GAF and you’ll find numerous Wii owners that no longer play it or only break it out at parties.
That’s funny, breaking it out at parties is what nintendo wants. And if the game attach rate is so horrid, why did EA shag ass to hire more Wii developers.
I love it how the same arguments come up from the 360/PS3 fanboys to explain why the Wii, (and the PS2 for that matter) are smoking them like a ham, inspite of worse graphics and slower CPUs. It’s always price and shit like the game attach rate. Considering Nintendo is profiting off of every Wii sold, I’m sure they’re crying buckets all the way to the bank.
Same thing with the Apple TV. You can bitch, whine, and cry about no HD, but it doesn’t seem to matter outside of the HD fanboy crowd. Meanwhile, the thing is selling nicely. Is it perfect, no, but it is simple to use, and the HD potential is there. But right now, the infrastructure for large-scale 1080p downloads is not. It’s getting there, but it’s not there yet.
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Welch, the reason Xbox 360 has “slow” sales is simply because it’s pricepoint is beyond what people expect for a game console. Despite that, its sales are tracking ahead of Xbox’s sales, at twice the price.
A new console is beating the previous version? That’s a notable fact? Funny, I’d have thought that it was called a “big no-shitter”, but hey, when you can’t outsell the PS2, you grab what you can I suppose.
The price thing is bullshit. If the 360 was that insanely good, it would be moving bigger numbers. The fact that it isn’t shows that people don’t want the same thing with higher specs.
BTW, it’s traditional that sales drop each month from Jan through August. Wii is defying that (well, actually it’s sales were dropping until last month), but Wii is “special” in doing so.
Even dropping, it was still outselling the 360 and the PS3. So much for HD being a requirement for success.
Xbox 360 destroys Wii in game quality and game sales (both volume and attach rate). Go over to GAF and you’ll find numerous Wii owners that no longer play it or only break it out at parties.
That’s funny, breaking it out at parties is what nintendo wants. And if the game attach rate is so horrid, why did EA shag ass to hire more Wii developers.
I love it how the same arguments come up from the 360/PS3 fanboys to explain why the Wii, (and the PS2 for that matter) are smoking them like a ham, inspite of worse graphics and slower CPUs. It’s always price and shit like the game attach rate. Considering Nintendo is profiting off of every Wii sold, I’m sure they’re crying buckets all the way to the bank.
Same thing with the Apple TV. You can bitch, whine, and cry about no HD, but it doesn’t seem to matter outside of the HD fanboy crowd. Meanwhile, the thing is selling nicely. Is it perfect, no, but it is simple to use, and the HD potential is there. But right now, the infrastructure for large-scale 1080p downloads is not. It’s getting there, but it’s not there yet.
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Wow, Welch.
You don’t strike me as a video game player, why do you want Xbox 360 to fail so badly?
Xbox 360 has great games, that’s why it has a high attach rate. Xbox 360 games dominated the various annual game awards for 2006, including AIAS and GDC GOTY. Xbox 360 games have great review scores at gamerankings.com, destroying Wii and PS3 wrt AAA games (i.e. games with 90% or higher scores).
And sorry, parties are not enough for Nintendo to live on. If Wii is getting most of its play at parties, its getting much less playtime than its competitors.
Oh, and I like how you dismissed the fact that Xbox 360 is tracking ahead of Xbox in sales despite being twice the price. You claimed that such always happens. Well guess what: SNES outsold Nintendo 64 which in turn outsold Nintendo GameCube. As a Nintendo fanboy (you were the first to break out the “fanboy” insults), I’m surprised you didn’t know that Nintendo has a history of new consoles selling fewer than their predecessors. Hell, Atari 5200 and 7800 sold less than the 2600. I don’t know where you got the idea that new consoles always sell more than their predecessors. This is the big problem with your arguments: you don’t know your history. Not just regarding video games, but just in general.
One last thing (quoting your hero Steve Jobs):
You say, “Considering Nintendo is profiting off of every Wii sold, I’m sure they’re crying buckets all the way to the bank.” I care more about the actual games, not company’s profits. But we’ve seen that about you: you’re about profits (e.g. Apple’s and Nintendo’s) rather than the actual user experience. Nintendo makes profit by charging a high profit margin for a relatively low-cost system and shovelling out shallow but low-cost development games (except Zelda). So users get a quick thrill, then find the games and the system lacking, so put it in the closet. Nintendo’s made their money off cheap-to-make hardware and software, which you celebrate, but the users got to play Wii Sports for a week until the “wow” wore off.
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Wow, Welch.
You don’t strike me as a video game player, why do you want Xbox 360 to fail so badly?
Xbox 360 has great games, that’s why it has a high attach rate. Xbox 360 games dominated the various annual game awards for 2006, including AIAS and GDC GOTY. Xbox 360 games have great review scores at gamerankings.com, destroying Wii and PS3 wrt AAA games (i.e. games with 90% or higher scores).
And sorry, parties are not enough for Nintendo to live on. If Wii is getting most of its play at parties, its getting much less playtime than its competitors.
Oh, and I like how you dismissed the fact that Xbox 360 is tracking ahead of Xbox in sales despite being twice the price. You claimed that such always happens. Well guess what: SNES outsold Nintendo 64 which in turn outsold Nintendo GameCube. As a Nintendo fanboy (you were the first to break out the “fanboy” insults), I’m surprised you didn’t know that Nintendo has a history of new consoles selling fewer than their predecessors. Hell, Atari 5200 and 7800 sold less than the 2600. I don’t know where you got the idea that new consoles always sell more than their predecessors. This is the big problem with your arguments: you don’t know your history. Not just regarding video games, but just in general.
One last thing (quoting your hero Steve Jobs):
You say, “Considering Nintendo is profiting off of every Wii sold, I’m sure they’re crying buckets all the way to the bank.” I care more about the actual games, not company’s profits. But we’ve seen that about you: you’re about profits (e.g. Apple’s and Nintendo’s) rather than the actual user experience. Nintendo makes profit by charging a high profit margin for a relatively low-cost system and shovelling out shallow but low-cost development games (except Zelda). So users get a quick thrill, then find the games and the system lacking, so put it in the closet. Nintendo’s made their money off cheap-to-make hardware and software, which you celebrate, but the users got to play Wii Sports for a week until the “wow” wore off.
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Do we *really* need HDTV on an iPod-sized device!?!? Have we gone insane? I can watch 16:9 movies converted to the iPod with no major suffering or twitching of the eyes.
Would my 17″ MacBook Pro be nicer with a full-1080 screen on it? Possibly, but I am quite OK watching DVDs full-screen as it is now.
I think there is some form of crazed commercial push towards HDTV which the largest amount of mortals would neither appreciate, neither have the capabilities (or money) to use.
Oh, and Joost…offering HDTV? Or even *close*? On what sort of bandwidth? Because streaming YouTube videos sometimes is hard enough…
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Do we *really* need HDTV on an iPod-sized device!?!? Have we gone insane? I can watch 16:9 movies converted to the iPod with no major suffering or twitching of the eyes.
Would my 17″ MacBook Pro be nicer with a full-1080 screen on it? Possibly, but I am quite OK watching DVDs full-screen as it is now.
I think there is some form of crazed commercial push towards HDTV which the largest amount of mortals would neither appreciate, neither have the capabilities (or money) to use.
Oh, and Joost…offering HDTV? Or even *close*? On what sort of bandwidth? Because streaming YouTube videos sometimes is hard enough…
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You don’t strike me as a video game player, why do you want Xbox 360 to fail so badly?
I don’t care, since the chances of me buying one or a PS3 are precisely zero. They have never had a good selection of games for younger gamers, and the current generation is the same as the previous generation but with better graphics. Nintendo is my choice because they have a wider range of games that aren’t all sports or “Bust a cap in yo’ ass” or “AnimeDeathFest 3000”
I don’t want it to fail. But the fact is, sales wise, the Wii is killing it and everything else, and I love the fact that the OMGHDISALL crowd keep insisting that HD is all anyone cares about, when the Wii shows that no, actually, it is not.
Xbox 360 has great games, that’s why it has a high attach rate. Xbox 360 games dominated the various annual game awards for 2006, including AIAS and GDC GOTY. Xbox 360 games have great review scores at gamerankings.com, destroying Wii and PS3 wrt AAA games (i.e. games with 90% or higher scores).
And sorry, parties are not enough for Nintendo to live on. If Wii is getting most of its play at parties, its getting much less playtime than its competitors.
(waves hand dismissively). Then the Wii sales should have started tanking…yet they have not. Hmm. Funny that.
Oh, and I like how you dismissed the fact that Xbox 360 is tracking ahead of Xbox in sales despite being twice the price. You claimed that such always happens. Well guess what: SNES outsold Nintendo 64 which in turn outsold Nintendo GameCube. As a Nintendo fanboy (you were the first to break out the “fanboy” insults), I’m surprised you didn’t know that Nintendo has a history of new consoles selling fewer than their predecessors. Hell, Atari 5200 and 7800 sold less than the 2600. I don’t know where you got the idea that new consoles always sell more than their predecessors. This is the big problem with your arguments: you don’t know your history. Not just regarding video games, but just in general.
Actually, speaking as someone who owned and dearly loved a Colecovision, I bet I have a better grasp of that history than most GAMERZZZZ today. The 2600 having monster sales is such a stupid point for you to make…it was the only choice for quite a few years. Even when it had some competition, it was stuff like the Intellivision and Coleco. Not really solid competitors, at least not enough to take away THAT lead. The 5200 was poorly designed, (worst controllers EVER), and by the time the 7800 came out, the market was tanking. And Atari was being run by idiots.
And you can’t even quote right. I never said that the new versions *always* outsell the old ones. Learn to read better. I said that a new console outselling the old one being some major news is what I’d call a big “no shitter”, because that’s what’s SUPPOSED to happen. However, the reason I didn’t say it ALWAYS happens is because in addition to your historical example, the PS3 is a CURRENT example of that.
Nor am I a Nintendo fanboy. I just think that Nintendo, with the Wii, is making the first real effort in a long time to reach out to the general public instead of fellating gamers. It’s working quite well too. Will it still be working in another six months? well, we’ll have to see, but at least they’re trying to reach out to people who have no use for the current gaming philosphies exemplified by the 360 and the PS3.
I care more about the actual games, not company’s profits. But we’ve seen that about you: you’re about profits (e.g. Apple’s and Nintendo’s) rather than the actual user experience.
BAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…A MICROSOFT fanboy telling me I don’t care about user experience? AAAHAAHAHAHAHAH…Go dial a PPC 6700 without a stylus and tell me about MSMicrosoft'”great” user experience. BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Nintendo makes profit by charging a high profit margin for a relatively low-cost system and shovelling out shallow but low-cost development games (except Zelda).
Madden ’07 and ’08. Rayman. Pirates. Spiderman, etc. New games are coming out for the Wii not from Nintendo at a solid clip. Your refusal to like this changes nothing.
Nintendo’s made their money off cheap-to-make hardware and software, which you celebrate, but the users got to play Wii Sports for a week until the “wow” wore off.
Right. You and your gamer friends keep telling yourself this. Makes me real curious as to who you work for, sounds like you have quite the agenda there.
I think there is some form of crazed commercial push towards HDTV which the largest amount of mortals would neither appreciate, neither have the capabilities (or money) to use.
Mike, the OMGHD crowd is exactly as silly as a crowd of MacMacs, and in just as desperate need of a good slapping.
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You don’t strike me as a video game player, why do you want Xbox 360 to fail so badly?
I don’t care, since the chances of me buying one or a PS3 are precisely zero. They have never had a good selection of games for younger gamers, and the current generation is the same as the previous generation but with better graphics. Nintendo is my choice because they have a wider range of games that aren’t all sports or “Bust a cap in yo’ ass” or “AnimeDeathFest 3000”
I don’t want it to fail. But the fact is, sales wise, the Wii is killing it and everything else, and I love the fact that the OMGHDISALL crowd keep insisting that HD is all anyone cares about, when the Wii shows that no, actually, it is not.
Xbox 360 has great games, that’s why it has a high attach rate. Xbox 360 games dominated the various annual game awards for 2006, including AIAS and GDC GOTY. Xbox 360 games have great review scores at gamerankings.com, destroying Wii and PS3 wrt AAA games (i.e. games with 90% or higher scores).
And sorry, parties are not enough for Nintendo to live on. If Wii is getting most of its play at parties, its getting much less playtime than its competitors.
(waves hand dismissively). Then the Wii sales should have started tanking…yet they have not. Hmm. Funny that.
Oh, and I like how you dismissed the fact that Xbox 360 is tracking ahead of Xbox in sales despite being twice the price. You claimed that such always happens. Well guess what: SNES outsold Nintendo 64 which in turn outsold Nintendo GameCube. As a Nintendo fanboy (you were the first to break out the “fanboy” insults), I’m surprised you didn’t know that Nintendo has a history of new consoles selling fewer than their predecessors. Hell, Atari 5200 and 7800 sold less than the 2600. I don’t know where you got the idea that new consoles always sell more than their predecessors. This is the big problem with your arguments: you don’t know your history. Not just regarding video games, but just in general.
Actually, speaking as someone who owned and dearly loved a Colecovision, I bet I have a better grasp of that history than most GAMERZZZZ today. The 2600 having monster sales is such a stupid point for you to make…it was the only choice for quite a few years. Even when it had some competition, it was stuff like the Intellivision and Coleco. Not really solid competitors, at least not enough to take away THAT lead. The 5200 was poorly designed, (worst controllers EVER), and by the time the 7800 came out, the market was tanking. And Atari was being run by idiots.
And you can’t even quote right. I never said that the new versions *always* outsell the old ones. Learn to read better. I said that a new console outselling the old one being some major news is what I’d call a big “no shitter”, because that’s what’s SUPPOSED to happen. However, the reason I didn’t say it ALWAYS happens is because in addition to your historical example, the PS3 is a CURRENT example of that.
Nor am I a Nintendo fanboy. I just think that Nintendo, with the Wii, is making the first real effort in a long time to reach out to the general public instead of fellating gamers. It’s working quite well too. Will it still be working in another six months? well, we’ll have to see, but at least they’re trying to reach out to people who have no use for the current gaming philosphies exemplified by the 360 and the PS3.
I care more about the actual games, not company’s profits. But we’ve seen that about you: you’re about profits (e.g. Apple’s and Nintendo’s) rather than the actual user experience.
BAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…A MICROSOFT fanboy telling me I don’t care about user experience? AAAHAAHAHAHAHAH…Go dial a PPC 6700 without a stylus and tell me about MSMicrosoft'”great” user experience. BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Nintendo makes profit by charging a high profit margin for a relatively low-cost system and shovelling out shallow but low-cost development games (except Zelda).
Madden ’07 and ’08. Rayman. Pirates. Spiderman, etc. New games are coming out for the Wii not from Nintendo at a solid clip. Your refusal to like this changes nothing.
Nintendo’s made their money off cheap-to-make hardware and software, which you celebrate, but the users got to play Wii Sports for a week until the “wow” wore off.
Right. You and your gamer friends keep telling yourself this. Makes me real curious as to who you work for, sounds like you have quite the agenda there.
I think there is some form of crazed commercial push towards HDTV which the largest amount of mortals would neither appreciate, neither have the capabilities (or money) to use.
Mike, the OMGHD crowd is exactly as silly as a crowd of MacMacs, and in just as desperate need of a good slapping.
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YouTube on the TV? Been done already … Get a Wii.
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YouTube on the TV? Been done already … Get a Wii.
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““This is the first time users can easily browse, find and watch YouTube videos right from their living room couch, and it’s really, really fun,” said Steve Jobs”
Seriously … He can’t have missed the Internet Channel on the Nintendo Wii. I know marketing is about bending truths, but this is an outright lie.
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““This is the first time users can easily browse, find and watch YouTube videos right from their living room couch, and it’s really, really fun,” said Steve Jobs”
Seriously … He can’t have missed the Internet Channel on the Nintendo Wii. I know marketing is about bending truths, but this is an outright lie.
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I just updated my AppleTV today. It’s official, I’m a YouTubotato.
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I just updated my AppleTV today. It’s official, I’m a YouTubotato.
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Ok my impressions of Youtube and AppleTV.
Overall I like the fact I recvd a new feature without having to pay anything..HOWEVER
1. inputting letters via the apple remote for a search is PAINFUL
2. when you get search results they offer a fraction of videos that you get if you do the same search on the PC version of Youtube why is this?
3. if you save a video as a favorite using AppleTV it shows up on your favorites if you then log into Youtube.com on your PC. However the reverse is NOT true. I saved the skateboard bulldog clip on my PC and when I logged into that same account on AppleTV nowhere to be found…
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Ok my impressions of Youtube and AppleTV.
Overall I like the fact I recvd a new feature without having to pay anything..HOWEVER
1. inputting letters via the apple remote for a search is PAINFUL
2. when you get search results they offer a fraction of videos that you get if you do the same search on the PC version of Youtube why is this?
3. if you save a video as a favorite using AppleTV it shows up on your favorites if you then log into Youtube.com on your PC. However the reverse is NOT true. I saved the skateboard bulldog clip on my PC and when I logged into that same account on AppleTV nowhere to be found…
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