Oh, Microsoft didn’t let Adobe have all the NAB fun. Here’s Beet.TV with Microsoft’s Forest Key who announces a new media player strategy for Microsoft too (based around its WPF/E technology). Here’s Adobe’s announcements on Google News and here’s Microsoft’s news, also on Google News.
So, here’s why this is important:
1) Microsoft doesn’t want to lose more market share to the future YouTube’s.
2) Adobe has more distribution than WPF/E has so far (Flash is on nearly everything and is the technology behind most of today’s popular video sites). It’s hoping to use that distribution to sell a series of servers.
3) Adobe’s development tools are more cross-platform than Microsoft’s are and are hoping its new media player keeps the Microsoft side of the fence from looking very attractive (Apple today announced that it has sold 800,000 copies of Final Cut Pro — those media developers aren’t very likely to jump on Microsoft’s bandwagon).
4) Microsoft’s technology is flashier (no pun intended) but isn’t proven in the marketplace yet. Yeah, Microsoft has pulled out some big guns that are saying they are supporting its new technology.
5) Microsoft has a HUGE lead over Adobe in HDTV. That’s going to be where Microsoft will get a lot of traction and where Adobe is still chasing Microsoft’s tail. Will that lead matter, though? Not to ABC.com. It already has all of ABC’s TV shows online in a near-HDTV format and player (based on Move Networks) and doesn’t need either Adobe or Microsoft’s stuff. Same with Joost, which is getting to be very popular if my Twitter friends are a good judge of things. Same with Stage6.divx.com. No Adobe or Microsoft stuff in either of those. So, really both Microsoft and Adobe are losing marketshare to other HDTV distribution and display technologies.
What do you think? How does Adobe’s and Microsoft’s announcements change the marketplace?
Scobleizer 
Nothing will change. MS will get their own medicine. In essence, IE is bundled with almost every computer sold, so that is what people use.
Flash is included as well, and that is what people will continue to use, develop for and keep using and developing for.
MS is spreading itself too thin to be everything to everyone. When will they learn that they need to focus on core competencies, not being an Internet company.
MS smacks me as the old guy who can learn very few new tricks, but thinks the ones he has cover all the bases.
You know as well as I do, that once a technology gets entrenched like Flash, it’s almost impossible to unseat it.
What worries me is that MS will include this technology in their OS and therefore bundle it, doing the same to Flash as they did to Netscape.
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Nothing will change. MS will get their own medicine. In essence, IE is bundled with almost every computer sold, so that is what people use.
Flash is included as well, and that is what people will continue to use, develop for and keep using and developing for.
MS is spreading itself too thin to be everything to everyone. When will they learn that they need to focus on core competencies, not being an Internet company.
MS smacks me as the old guy who can learn very few new tricks, but thinks the ones he has cover all the bases.
You know as well as I do, that once a technology gets entrenched like Flash, it’s almost impossible to unseat it.
What worries me is that MS will include this technology in their OS and therefore bundle it, doing the same to Flash as they did to Netscape.
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I’ll believe it when I don’t see non-MS platforms in the “Shitacular WM Experience” ghetto that Microsoft has worked so hard to put them in. When I can play full on WM11 video with DRM in Firefox on Linux or Mac OS X, and I can to it as a full shipping product for more than a single product cycle, I’ll believe it.
Until then, it’s just more Microsoft WM bullshit.
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I’ll believe it when I don’t see non-MS platforms in the “Shitacular WM Experience” ghetto that Microsoft has worked so hard to put them in. When I can play full on WM11 video with DRM in Firefox on Linux or Mac OS X, and I can to it as a full shipping product for more than a single product cycle, I’ll believe it.
Until then, it’s just more Microsoft WM bullshit.
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John,
Why sully your Linux experience with MS formats? 🙂
The beauty of Linux, as you well know, is simple. All I have to do is work some apt-get magic and I can watch anything online in any format.
WM sucks in any event. Anything worth watching/listening to is in other formats anyway.
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John,
Why sully your Linux experience with MS formats? 🙂
The beauty of Linux, as you well know, is simple. All I have to do is work some apt-get magic and I can watch anything online in any format.
WM sucks in any event. Anything worth watching/listening to is in other formats anyway.
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Why does WMV suck? Really, I’d like to understand. If you start talking about DRM, that’s another matter. But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc? How does it compare to Flash Video?
I like the name Silverlight. Much better than what MSFT usually comes up with.
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Why does WMV suck? Really, I’d like to understand. If you start talking about DRM, that’s another matter. But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc? How does it compare to Flash Video?
I like the name Silverlight. Much better than what MSFT usually comes up with.
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notaprguy: WMV does NOT suck. I used it at MIcrosoft for all my videos and it was great. I use MPG4 now because it has better cross-platform support and because most of my video friends are using it (Apple’s FinalCutPro has sold 800,000 copies). The quality I get is much better now than I used to get on MovieMaker at the same bit rates, but that might just be because I’m using a better tool.
Flash video generally is crappy compared to either WMV or MPG. But, nice thing about Flash is it is already on every machine so it just works. That’s why YouTube uses it. WIth other schemes you’ve gotta load some new software. Many people are unwilling/unable to do that.
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notaprguy: WMV does NOT suck. I used it at MIcrosoft for all my videos and it was great. I use MPG4 now because it has better cross-platform support and because most of my video friends are using it (Apple’s FinalCutPro has sold 800,000 copies). The quality I get is much better now than I used to get on MovieMaker at the same bit rates, but that might just be because I’m using a better tool.
Flash video generally is crappy compared to either WMV or MPG. But, nice thing about Flash is it is already on every machine so it just works. That’s why YouTube uses it. WIth other schemes you’ve gotta load some new software. Many people are unwilling/unable to do that.
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Wreck: go use your Linux. God I hate people like you.
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Wreck: go use your Linux. God I hate people like you.
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Thanks Robert.
To use an old cliche’, it’ll be a long row to hoe for Microsoft to get Silverlight out on hundreds of millions of PC’s but with their own Web properties (MS.com and MSN) they automatically have pretty nice distribution. Deals with other content providers will go a long way in getting it out there. It’ll be interesting to see if Microsoft does what they’re usually pretty good at – making the tools attractive enough to devs and content providers to get them to switch. The issue there is that they don’t offer Mac tools for designers…
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Thanks Robert.
To use an old cliche’, it’ll be a long row to hoe for Microsoft to get Silverlight out on hundreds of millions of PC’s but with their own Web properties (MS.com and MSN) they automatically have pretty nice distribution. Deals with other content providers will go a long way in getting it out there. It’ll be interesting to see if Microsoft does what they’re usually pretty good at – making the tools attractive enough to devs and content providers to get them to switch. The issue there is that they don’t offer Mac tools for designers…
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Actually Silverlight is not a new media player per se. It’s a browser plug-in for creating media-enabled apps for the Web and doesn’t include a destination app on your desktop. See the video over at http://www.on10.net if you’d like more details.
Stay tuned for more at MIX07 🙂
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Actually Silverlight is not a new media player per se. It’s a browser plug-in for creating media-enabled apps for the Web and doesn’t include a destination app on your desktop. See the video over at http://www.on10.net if you’d like more details.
Stay tuned for more at MIX07 🙂
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Hrrmph, my ‘pressy people’ said the beta and news would all hit at MIX, geee I coulda spilled the beans…(but I don’t break promises). So I guess they needed to have something to talk about at NAB. It’s a distributional system, and the NAB be more content-creator types, so the news really won’t impact that much, not compared to Final Cut news.
A new plug-in, wheeeee, just what the industry needs, the trend is going branded players, but if can wrap this in, all good, whatever works — the more ways to deliver content, the better.
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Hrrmph, my ‘pressy people’ said the beta and news would all hit at MIX, geee I coulda spilled the beans…(but I don’t break promises). So I guess they needed to have something to talk about at NAB. It’s a distributional system, and the NAB be more content-creator types, so the news really won’t impact that much, not compared to Final Cut news.
A new plug-in, wheeeee, just what the industry needs, the trend is going branded players, but if can wrap this in, all good, whatever works — the more ways to deliver content, the better.
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“But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc?”
No, it’s fine (it’s just mpeg-4 with a different blocking algorithm), but it does have issues. Microsoft ripped off mpeg-4, and by standardizing it with SMPTE, they exposed the internals and had to basically hand ot over to mpegla for licensing (VC-1). Despite not owning 98% of the technology and despite their own need to license VC-1, they license their own proprietary implementation of VC-1 at lower rates than mpegla’s VC-1 rates presenting an interesting scenario (Microsoft is paying people to use their format) and/or anyone using WMV is massively exposed to patent disputes.
Strangely (Microsoft who created such a huff about indemnification of Linux because of the SCOX trial), Microsoft only indemnifies WMV licenses on their own patents and up to the price someone already paid for the license.
So… it’s a fine codec, but it has MAJOR issues. If you want to use the codec, use VC-1 instead.
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“But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc?”
No, it’s fine (it’s just mpeg-4 with a different blocking algorithm), but it does have issues. Microsoft ripped off mpeg-4, and by standardizing it with SMPTE, they exposed the internals and had to basically hand ot over to mpegla for licensing (VC-1). Despite not owning 98% of the technology and despite their own need to license VC-1, they license their own proprietary implementation of VC-1 at lower rates than mpegla’s VC-1 rates presenting an interesting scenario (Microsoft is paying people to use their format) and/or anyone using WMV is massively exposed to patent disputes.
Strangely (Microsoft who created such a huff about indemnification of Linux because of the SCOX trial), Microsoft only indemnifies WMV licenses on their own patents and up to the price someone already paid for the license.
So… it’s a fine codec, but it has MAJOR issues. If you want to use the codec, use VC-1 instead.
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Robert – Silverlight is waaaay more than just a media player. You might want to watch the Mix keynote 🙂
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Robert – Silverlight is waaaay more than just a media player. You might want to watch the Mix keynote 🙂
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Btw, I just saw that your blog is linked from the ‘Silverlight Community’ page as an ‘industry blogger’. 🙂
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/asp.net/bb187454.aspx
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Btw, I just saw that your blog is linked from the ‘Silverlight Community’ page as an ‘industry blogger’. 🙂
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/asp.net/bb187454.aspx
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So… it’s a fine codec, but it has MAJOR issues.
Oh boy, ain’t that the truth. I mean…WMV, WMV2, WMV3, MSS2, WMVA, WVC1, WMVP, WVP2, and then WMV HD…egads. Hack up MPEG4, replace with SMPTE, create legal chaos, welcome to Microsoft.
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So… it’s a fine codec, but it has MAJOR issues.
Oh boy, ain’t that the truth. I mean…WMV, WMV2, WMV3, MSS2, WMVA, WVC1, WMVP, WVP2, and then WMV HD…egads. Hack up MPEG4, replace with SMPTE, create legal chaos, welcome to Microsoft.
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Media player? [Insert Big Laugh here]
Dude, you need to MIX with more devs more often!
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Media player? [Insert Big Laugh here]
Dude, you need to MIX with more devs more often!
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Scoble said “Adobe’s development tools are more cross-platform than Microsoft’s”
Not accurate. Macromedia (now Adobe) solved this cross-platform problem ten years ago. Without them, YouTube would not exist. Microsoft is coming up in 2007 with a pseudo-solution to a problem that was solved ten years ago. Talk about innovators…
And of course, everyone old enough knows that Microsoft is using this stuff to recruit users to the Windows platform. That’s the only thing that matters. So either Microsoft will release someday a runtime that works better, faster or better optimized for Windows (such as the Java virtual machine that they used to destroy Sun, something now called .NET) : an example of that is to rely on DirectX to render complex stuff with Windows doing it with hardware and Mac doing it with software only. Either that or customers will be simply locked it, the typical Internet Explorer-only thing.
Same old story again and again.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, the world has changed.
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Scoble said “Adobe’s development tools are more cross-platform than Microsoft’s”
Not accurate. Macromedia (now Adobe) solved this cross-platform problem ten years ago. Without them, YouTube would not exist. Microsoft is coming up in 2007 with a pseudo-solution to a problem that was solved ten years ago. Talk about innovators…
And of course, everyone old enough knows that Microsoft is using this stuff to recruit users to the Windows platform. That’s the only thing that matters. So either Microsoft will release someday a runtime that works better, faster or better optimized for Windows (such as the Java virtual machine that they used to destroy Sun, something now called .NET) : an example of that is to rely on DirectX to render complex stuff with Windows doing it with hardware and Mac doing it with software only. Either that or customers will be simply locked it, the typical Internet Explorer-only thing.
Same old story again and again.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, the world has changed.
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Ive been mucking around with pre-release WPF/E for a while now. It is quite interesting, it could certainly breath fresh life into WMV on the Mac for example. And because its XML-based, it could be a easier to have WPF/E stuff generated by server-side scripts, than binary swf.
When it comes to video, it is to wmv what a decent swf player is to flv videos, a potentially very flexible wrapper. So far there havent been mamny tools that aid the creation of WPF/E stuff, so that needs to improve dramatically to compete with Adobe (I would guess the Expression range is the natural place for Microsoft to start with that).
WPF/E has been overshadowed of confused by WPF so lets see if that improves with the new name.
I think I will stick to flash until its clear what the install base of WPF/E browser plugin turns out to be, whether it catches on. I also think it would be far more likely to suceed if they supported .mp4 video as well as wmv. This may be unlikely as it would increase the size of the plugin, and traditionally M$ want to support only their own format, but theyve just announced mpeg4 & h264 support for the xbox360 so you never know.
Mobile is the other area Microsoft could struggle against Flash. Adobe are inally going to be including flv support in Flash Lite 3.0, wheras I cant see too many mobile manufacturers being keen on including microsofts stuff.
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Ive been mucking around with pre-release WPF/E for a while now. It is quite interesting, it could certainly breath fresh life into WMV on the Mac for example. And because its XML-based, it could be a easier to have WPF/E stuff generated by server-side scripts, than binary swf.
When it comes to video, it is to wmv what a decent swf player is to flv videos, a potentially very flexible wrapper. So far there havent been mamny tools that aid the creation of WPF/E stuff, so that needs to improve dramatically to compete with Adobe (I would guess the Expression range is the natural place for Microsoft to start with that).
WPF/E has been overshadowed of confused by WPF so lets see if that improves with the new name.
I think I will stick to flash until its clear what the install base of WPF/E browser plugin turns out to be, whether it catches on. I also think it would be far more likely to suceed if they supported .mp4 video as well as wmv. This may be unlikely as it would increase the size of the plugin, and traditionally M$ want to support only their own format, but theyve just announced mpeg4 & h264 support for the xbox360 so you never know.
Mobile is the other area Microsoft could struggle against Flash. Adobe are inally going to be including flv support in Flash Lite 3.0, wheras I cant see too many mobile manufacturers being keen on including microsofts stuff.
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Why sully your Linux experience with MS formats?
The beauty of Linux, as you well know, is simple. All I have to do is work some apt-get magic and I can watch anything online in any format.
WM sucks in any event. Anything worth watching/listening to is in other formats anyway.
Because wreck, in the real world, you have to deal with WM quite a lot, and it’s not optional. There’s quite a lot of stuff I have to do that’s business related in windows.
It’s not “sullying”, it’s “getting work done”. Try to not let your religion get in the way of reality.
Why does WMV suck? Really, I’d like to understand. If you start talking about DRM, that’s another matter. But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc? How does it compare to Flash Video?M
If your entire world is WIndows, WM doesn’t suck at all. As soon as you try to move into other platform? Sucks like a Dyson in a black hole.
When it comes to video, it is to wmv what a decent swf player is to flv videos, a potentially very flexible wrapper. So far there havent been mamny tools that aid the creation of WPF/E stuff, so that needs to improve dramatically to compete with Adobe (I would guess the Expression range is the natural place for Microsoft to start with that).
On Windows, sure. On anything else? Well there’s Vi, Emacs….
I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.
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Why sully your Linux experience with MS formats?
The beauty of Linux, as you well know, is simple. All I have to do is work some apt-get magic and I can watch anything online in any format.
WM sucks in any event. Anything worth watching/listening to is in other formats anyway.
Because wreck, in the real world, you have to deal with WM quite a lot, and it’s not optional. There’s quite a lot of stuff I have to do that’s business related in windows.
It’s not “sullying”, it’s “getting work done”. Try to not let your religion get in the way of reality.
Why does WMV suck? Really, I’d like to understand. If you start talking about DRM, that’s another matter. But is there really anything bad about the WMV codecs in terms of quality, performane etc? How does it compare to Flash Video?M
If your entire world is WIndows, WM doesn’t suck at all. As soon as you try to move into other platform? Sucks like a Dyson in a black hole.
When it comes to video, it is to wmv what a decent swf player is to flv videos, a potentially very flexible wrapper. So far there havent been mamny tools that aid the creation of WPF/E stuff, so that needs to improve dramatically to compete with Adobe (I would guess the Expression range is the natural place for Microsoft to start with that).
On Windows, sure. On anything else? Well there’s Vi, Emacs….
I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.
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However, while Silverlight itself is crossplatform, it’s media experience? Not so much:
Does Silverlight support MPEG4 and H.264 video, or Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) audio, or Flash video?
No. However, content from many of these formats can be transcoded into formats that are supported by Silverlight, such as by an automated server function (many available third-party solutions support this workflow), and then incorporated into a Silverlight-based application.
Transcoding HD H.264 on the fly. Yeah. That’s a great solution.
I suppose I should be grateful that MP3 made it in:
What audio or video formats are supported in Silverlight?
Silverlight supports Windows Media Audio and Video (WMA, WMV7–9) and VC-1, as well as MP3 audio. Additional formats may be available by the final release based on customer feedback.
So it’s an improvement for WM cross platform, but it’s still behind Flash in both client and dev. platform support.
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However, while Silverlight itself is crossplatform, it’s media experience? Not so much:
Does Silverlight support MPEG4 and H.264 video, or Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) audio, or Flash video?
No. However, content from many of these formats can be transcoded into formats that are supported by Silverlight, such as by an automated server function (many available third-party solutions support this workflow), and then incorporated into a Silverlight-based application.
Transcoding HD H.264 on the fly. Yeah. That’s a great solution.
I suppose I should be grateful that MP3 made it in:
What audio or video formats are supported in Silverlight?
Silverlight supports Windows Media Audio and Video (WMA, WMV7–9) and VC-1, as well as MP3 audio. Additional formats may be available by the final release based on customer feedback.
So it’s an improvement for WM cross platform, but it’s still behind Flash in both client and dev. platform support.
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Does it matter what web sites offer? If it has got content I want then I’ll have to download whatever crappy install they offer, and sure enough it will fuck up my PC until I am done and have to uninstall it. I hate Quick Time, but I need it because people think it is cool and post videos in it. How I hate them and their evil ways.
The only think flash has got going for it is that it works.
Eventually I’ll have every download from every site and all of them will crash each other and install spyware and I’ll never know which has done what and I’ll still hate them all.
I wish W3C would wake up and sort out my problems. The sooner they spec something that the Firefox people can understand the sooner I can unspyware my ‘puter.
monk.e.boy
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Does it matter what web sites offer? If it has got content I want then I’ll have to download whatever crappy install they offer, and sure enough it will fuck up my PC until I am done and have to uninstall it. I hate Quick Time, but I need it because people think it is cool and post videos in it. How I hate them and their evil ways.
The only think flash has got going for it is that it works.
Eventually I’ll have every download from every site and all of them will crash each other and install spyware and I’ll never know which has done what and I’ll still hate them all.
I wish W3C would wake up and sort out my problems. The sooner they spec something that the Firefox people can understand the sooner I can unspyware my ‘puter.
monk.e.boy
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“Since Silverlight is a lightweight cross-platform technology, it only carries the most common codecs that are needed for Web playback.” Which are: WMA, WMV7–9 and (whew) MP3. “Lightweight” is right.
Basically a WMV wrapper, complete with PlayReady content access technology…expect lots of blather about “ecosystems”, and the cross-platform play up, when it really doesn’t add up to much more than a VC-1 plug-in.
Wheee, this is gonna be fun, workflow happy transcoding nightmares, “content from many of these formats can be transcoded into formats that are supported by Silverlight”
The Tarari Hardware-assisted Encoder Accelerator is also WMV & VC-1 only…
And I think the naming is quite odd, given “silverlight’s” nomage in things Magick, Neopagan, polytheistic Celtic, Wicca and Witchy…fitting I guess, a VC-1 Coven. Blessed Be! May the Moons find you willing…
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“Since Silverlight is a lightweight cross-platform technology, it only carries the most common codecs that are needed for Web playback.” Which are: WMA, WMV7–9 and (whew) MP3. “Lightweight” is right.
Basically a WMV wrapper, complete with PlayReady content access technology…expect lots of blather about “ecosystems”, and the cross-platform play up, when it really doesn’t add up to much more than a VC-1 plug-in.
Wheee, this is gonna be fun, workflow happy transcoding nightmares, “content from many of these formats can be transcoded into formats that are supported by Silverlight”
The Tarari Hardware-assisted Encoder Accelerator is also WMV & VC-1 only…
And I think the naming is quite odd, given “silverlight’s” nomage in things Magick, Neopagan, polytheistic Celtic, Wicca and Witchy…fitting I guess, a VC-1 Coven. Blessed Be! May the Moons find you willing…
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Okay, pulling in neopagan and Wicca to make a silverlight point?
Christopher Coulter won at the intarweb today.
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Okay, pulling in neopagan and Wicca to make a silverlight point?
Christopher Coulter won at the intarweb today.
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@1 “You know as well as I do, that once a technology gets entrenched like Flash, it’s almost impossible to unseat it.”
Weren’t you the same one making the point the it didn’t matter that Windows was entrenched in businesses and the Linux could easily replace it?
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@1 “You know as well as I do, that once a technology gets entrenched like Flash, it’s almost impossible to unseat it.”
Weren’t you the same one making the point the it didn’t matter that Windows was entrenched in businesses and the Linux could easily replace it?
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“The only [thing] flash has got going for it is that it works.”
heh, cute line. 😉
jd/adobe
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“The only [thing] flash has got going for it is that it works.”
heh, cute line. 😉
jd/adobe
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I must be the only geek on the planet that does not like using their computer for watching videos longer than five minutes. I have a perfectly nice couch and TV that offer a much more pleasant viewing experience, without all the software and DRM hassles.
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I must be the only geek on the planet that does not like using their computer for watching videos longer than five minutes. I have a perfectly nice couch and TV that offer a much more pleasant viewing experience, without all the software and DRM hassles.
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Well, even MSN Live has a Coven at #2…and it’s a name long used in Paganistic lunkhead circles.
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=silverlight&FORM=MSNH
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Well, even MSN Live has a Coven at #2…and it’s a name long used in Paganistic lunkhead circles.
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=silverlight&FORM=MSNH
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@24
Slightly different there…
Businesses are replacing Windows with Linux because it makes great business sense to do so. Why pay for licenses when you don’t need to. Despite all the lies written by the MS-sponsored TCO papers, Linux is far cheaper to deploy and maintain.
Flash is great technology. People actually like it. Windows is junk for the most part, and is far more unreliable than any *nix-based OS. I know. I’ve been a *nix sysadmin for almost 10 years. I’ve rarely had properly maintained *nix boxes go down. Almost every Windows server I’ve ever worked with has had issues at one point in time or another.
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@24
Slightly different there…
Businesses are replacing Windows with Linux because it makes great business sense to do so. Why pay for licenses when you don’t need to. Despite all the lies written by the MS-sponsored TCO papers, Linux is far cheaper to deploy and maintain.
Flash is great technology. People actually like it. Windows is junk for the most part, and is far more unreliable than any *nix-based OS. I know. I’ve been a *nix sysadmin for almost 10 years. I’ve rarely had properly maintained *nix boxes go down. Almost every Windows server I’ve ever worked with has had issues at one point in time or another.
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Wreck – so where do you get your info that businesses are replacing Windows with Linux? I’m curious. I’m guessing that if there is any significant migration to Linux it is coming at the expense of Unix servers, not Windows. Windows marketshare on the client and server is steady.
Is Linux really cheaper to manage? How so? I’ve heard that Windows tends to be cheaper to manage because (1) there are more people who know how to do it and (2) there are more admin tools avaialbe. I could be wrong.
So…why is Flash “great tehcnology?” Do you know or are you parroting the hype? Which flavors of Unix do you administer? Quick! Answer in 10 seconds or less or we’ll all know you’re blowing smoke. Just kidding.
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Wreck – so where do you get your info that businesses are replacing Windows with Linux? I’m curious. I’m guessing that if there is any significant migration to Linux it is coming at the expense of Unix servers, not Windows. Windows marketshare on the client and server is steady.
Is Linux really cheaper to manage? How so? I’ve heard that Windows tends to be cheaper to manage because (1) there are more people who know how to do it and (2) there are more admin tools avaialbe. I could be wrong.
So…why is Flash “great tehcnology?” Do you know or are you parroting the hype? Which flavors of Unix do you administer? Quick! Answer in 10 seconds or less or we’ll all know you’re blowing smoke. Just kidding.
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“I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.”
It’s the new Microsoft. Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video. You’re going to have to find other reasons to bash the company. But I see from the above post, that even your compliments are bashes, so I guess you can keep doing that for a while. It’s pretty tired though.
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“I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.”
It’s the new Microsoft. Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video. You’re going to have to find other reasons to bash the company. But I see from the above post, that even your compliments are bashes, so I guess you can keep doing that for a while. It’s pretty tired though.
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@26 I’m right there with ya. The only time I use my PC/Laptop to watch video of any value is when I’m on a plane.
@28. You are not addressing the issue. Either Windows is entrenched or it’s not. We are not talking about acquisition costs. You said once a technology is entrenched its impossible to unseat it. You’ve not provided evidence as to why it’s harder technically, to unseat Flash than it is Windows. In a greenfield environment in theory, may Linux is cheaper to deploy. But we are talking about unsteating an incumbent technology. What data points do you have to support your contention? Your anecdotal evidence is not sufficent to support your position. Do you have any broader evidence?
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@26 I’m right there with ya. The only time I use my PC/Laptop to watch video of any value is when I’m on a plane.
@28. You are not addressing the issue. Either Windows is entrenched or it’s not. We are not talking about acquisition costs. You said once a technology is entrenched its impossible to unseat it. You’ve not provided evidence as to why it’s harder technically, to unseat Flash than it is Windows. In a greenfield environment in theory, may Linux is cheaper to deploy. But we are talking about unsteating an incumbent technology. What data points do you have to support your contention? Your anecdotal evidence is not sufficent to support your position. Do you have any broader evidence?
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“Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video.”
I’d say just the opposite. Their products and culture do not match a marketing strategy they are trying to emulate so their efforts seem forced, lame, and counterproductive. (Zune and Silverline are stupid and laughable names, worthy of being made fun of.) Also, their past traditions are not dead: just look at Windows Live Service names and the SKUs for Windows.
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“Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video.”
I’d say just the opposite. Their products and culture do not match a marketing strategy they are trying to emulate so their efforts seem forced, lame, and counterproductive. (Zune and Silverline are stupid and laughable names, worthy of being made fun of.) Also, their past traditions are not dead: just look at Windows Live Service names and the SKUs for Windows.
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“(Zune and Silverline are stupid and laughable names, worthy of being made fun of.) “
LOL
You mean, like the name “iPod” was mocked when it was first released? Or like the “Xbox” name was mocked but now is a recognized household name, surpassing “Playstation” in pop-culture references? (30 Rock has had at least six shows with Halo/Xbox references.)
Goebbels, you are the laughing stock of this blog. The sad thing is that you don’t even realize it. LOL
Oh, and if you’re going to “make fun of” the name “Silverline”, at least get the name right.
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“(Zune and Silverline are stupid and laughable names, worthy of being made fun of.) “
LOL
You mean, like the name “iPod” was mocked when it was first released? Or like the “Xbox” name was mocked but now is a recognized household name, surpassing “Playstation” in pop-culture references? (30 Rock has had at least six shows with Halo/Xbox references.)
Goebbels, you are the laughing stock of this blog. The sad thing is that you don’t even realize it. LOL
Oh, and if you’re going to “make fun of” the name “Silverline”, at least get the name right.
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Oh, and Goebbels, even your MS-bashing cohort Welch admits (grudgingly, as you can see from his post) that “Silverlight” is a good name. If it’s so deserving of being made fun of, how come I’ve not seen it today, and I’ve read many message boards about it today, including many messages from MS-haters such as yourself. Not once, have I seen the name “made fun of”.
But, why am I debating with someone that names himself after one of history’s most villainous monsters? Believe whatever you want.
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Oh, and Goebbels, even your MS-bashing cohort Welch admits (grudgingly, as you can see from his post) that “Silverlight” is a good name. If it’s so deserving of being made fun of, how come I’ve not seen it today, and I’ve read many message boards about it today, including many messages from MS-haters such as yourself. Not once, have I seen the name “made fun of”.
But, why am I debating with someone that names himself after one of history’s most villainous monsters? Believe whatever you want.
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Oh boo hoo, Mr. Robinson.
If you don’t see that the iPod has been accepted as a name and is an astonishingly good name, sorry for you.
The Xbox is a decent name. Of course, the 360 was a stupid idea. I’ve even seen Gates laugh at and wonder what the hell they’ll call the next version.
Sorry, if I misspoke: I don’t give more than a few seconds to be concerned about whether I typed Silverline or Silverlight or Silverskin.
If you haven’t seen anyone questioning the name, you haven’t read the comments here.
Oh, and I could give a flying fck if anyone thinks I’m a laughing stock or not.
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Oh boo hoo, Mr. Robinson.
If you don’t see that the iPod has been accepted as a name and is an astonishingly good name, sorry for you.
The Xbox is a decent name. Of course, the 360 was a stupid idea. I’ve even seen Gates laugh at and wonder what the hell they’ll call the next version.
Sorry, if I misspoke: I don’t give more than a few seconds to be concerned about whether I typed Silverline or Silverlight or Silverskin.
If you haven’t seen anyone questioning the name, you haven’t read the comments here.
Oh, and I could give a flying fck if anyone thinks I’m a laughing stock or not.
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“I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.”
It’s the new Microsoft. Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video. You’re going to have to find other reasons to bash the company. But I see from the above post, that even your compliments are bashes, so I guess you can keep doing that for a while. It’s pretty tired though.
Oh cry me a river. I’ve been hearing “it’s the new Microsoft crapola for a decade now, and it never is. Sorry if I’m not getting Windows logo tattoos for a product *name* that not only doesn’t suck, but is kinda cool. However, the product NAME doesn’t make up for deficiencies in the PRODUCT.
And as Geobbels pointed out, if this is the “new” Microsoft, the explain, por favor, the Windows Office MSN Live *debacle* that is still unraveling?
You mean, like the name “iPod” was mocked when it was first released? Or like the “Xbox” name was mocked but now is a recognized household name, surpassing “Playstation” in pop-culture references? (30 Rock has had at least six shows with Halo/Xbox references.)
The Xbox is a more popular pop-culture reference? That means less than it used to since the Xbox 360 STILL can’t outsell the PS/2. When it’s outselling a five-year old system, you let me know.
If you’re going to call someone a laughing stock, then I will recommend that you get a better “big gun fact” than 30 ROCK. ‘Cause that kind of kills your moral high ground there.
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“I will say I’m impressed with the name. How many Bothans died to get something that decent through Microsoft’s Branding Swamp of Eternal Stench.”
It’s the new Microsoft. Their naming and packaging have been much better since they made that MS/iPod video. You’re going to have to find other reasons to bash the company. But I see from the above post, that even your compliments are bashes, so I guess you can keep doing that for a while. It’s pretty tired though.
Oh cry me a river. I’ve been hearing “it’s the new Microsoft crapola for a decade now, and it never is. Sorry if I’m not getting Windows logo tattoos for a product *name* that not only doesn’t suck, but is kinda cool. However, the product NAME doesn’t make up for deficiencies in the PRODUCT.
And as Geobbels pointed out, if this is the “new” Microsoft, the explain, por favor, the Windows Office MSN Live *debacle* that is still unraveling?
You mean, like the name “iPod” was mocked when it was first released? Or like the “Xbox” name was mocked but now is a recognized household name, surpassing “Playstation” in pop-culture references? (30 Rock has had at least six shows with Halo/Xbox references.)
The Xbox is a more popular pop-culture reference? That means less than it used to since the Xbox 360 STILL can’t outsell the PS/2. When it’s outselling a five-year old system, you let me know.
If you’re going to call someone a laughing stock, then I will recommend that you get a better “big gun fact” than 30 ROCK. ‘Cause that kind of kills your moral high ground there.
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But, John…? But, John, eve you disagree with me? Don’t you?
Oops.
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But, John…? But, John, eve you disagree with me? Don’t you?
Oops.
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It suprises me that MS haven’t done more with their media center, and web distro of TV.
I have a lot of friends who intend to have Mediacenter as their next TV experience.
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It suprises me that MS haven’t done more with their media center, and web distro of TV.
I have a lot of friends who intend to have Mediacenter as their next TV experience.
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To be honest Robert,
It will push both developers and designers to more extremes in the audio / video space and along with Animation techniques.
I doubt anyones stupid to think that Microsoft just wokeup one morning and went “ya know what, wouldn’t mind a piece of that runtime space, figure i’ll take a punt”… theres more to the story.
Overall, i think its exciting times ahead and while I don’t think SilverLight is the “Flash Killer”, I do think that Adobe will push just that little harder to do better, which translates to much smarter tools (input/output) for developers.
Guys like yourself may also get more interesting video online (ever thought of some closeups now? hehe).
Scott Barnes
Developer Evangelist
Microsoft.
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To be honest Robert,
It will push both developers and designers to more extremes in the audio / video space and along with Animation techniques.
I doubt anyones stupid to think that Microsoft just wokeup one morning and went “ya know what, wouldn’t mind a piece of that runtime space, figure i’ll take a punt”… theres more to the story.
Overall, i think its exciting times ahead and while I don’t think SilverLight is the “Flash Killer”, I do think that Adobe will push just that little harder to do better, which translates to much smarter tools (input/output) for developers.
Guys like yourself may also get more interesting video online (ever thought of some closeups now? hehe).
Scott Barnes
Developer Evangelist
Microsoft.
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“30 Rock”???? Is that show still on? What’s that pull in the ratings? About a 2? And that’s being used as a cultural barometer?
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“30 Rock”???? Is that show still on? What’s that pull in the ratings? About a 2? And that’s being used as a cultural barometer?
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It will push both developers and designers to more extremes in the audio / video space and along with Animation techniques.
As long as they don’t care about Linux users and use only Microsoft video codecs.
I doubt anyones stupid to think that Microsoft just wokeup one morning and went “ya know what, wouldn’t mind a piece of that runtime space, figure i’ll take a punt”… theres more to the story.
Sure: “Shit, people are still using stuff that isn’t WM. We aren’t the only player in that space. GRAAAAGH, BALLMER SMASH!!!”
Overall, i think its exciting times ahead and while I don’t think SilverLight is the “Flash Killer”, I do think that Adobe will push just that little harder to do better, which translates to much smarter tools (input/output) for developers.
As long as you don’t care about Linux users, and don’t mind moving your dev environments to Windows, or using text editors for your dev work. Sure, that’s a much better solution.
Guys like yourself may also get more interesting video online (ever thought of some closeups now? hehe).
As long as Robert wants to alienate Linux users, and limit himself to WIndows Video codecs.
Are you beginning to see where people who aren’t living in a solely Windows world would have issues with this. Yes, you can get a Mac version of the Silverlight plugin. For how long? Anyone can do something once. Show me they’re in this for the long haul on !Windows. Rotor 1.x was cross platform, Rotor 2? Yeah, Windows only. Active X was cross-platform once.
Where are the !Windows Dev tools, and no, i don’t mean a good XML editor.
Where’s a FF linux plugin?
Microsoft is still hitting us with PR fluff on this, and it still stinks of old “cross-platform” scams from the Windows group.
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It will push both developers and designers to more extremes in the audio / video space and along with Animation techniques.
As long as they don’t care about Linux users and use only Microsoft video codecs.
I doubt anyones stupid to think that Microsoft just wokeup one morning and went “ya know what, wouldn’t mind a piece of that runtime space, figure i’ll take a punt”… theres more to the story.
Sure: “Shit, people are still using stuff that isn’t WM. We aren’t the only player in that space. GRAAAAGH, BALLMER SMASH!!!”
Overall, i think its exciting times ahead and while I don’t think SilverLight is the “Flash Killer”, I do think that Adobe will push just that little harder to do better, which translates to much smarter tools (input/output) for developers.
As long as you don’t care about Linux users, and don’t mind moving your dev environments to Windows, or using text editors for your dev work. Sure, that’s a much better solution.
Guys like yourself may also get more interesting video online (ever thought of some closeups now? hehe).
As long as Robert wants to alienate Linux users, and limit himself to WIndows Video codecs.
Are you beginning to see where people who aren’t living in a solely Windows world would have issues with this. Yes, you can get a Mac version of the Silverlight plugin. For how long? Anyone can do something once. Show me they’re in this for the long haul on !Windows. Rotor 1.x was cross platform, Rotor 2? Yeah, Windows only. Active X was cross-platform once.
Where are the !Windows Dev tools, and no, i don’t mean a good XML editor.
Where’s a FF linux plugin?
Microsoft is still hitting us with PR fluff on this, and it still stinks of old “cross-platform” scams from the Windows group.
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“The Xbox is a more popular pop-culture reference? That means less than it used to since the Xbox 360 STILL can’t outsell the PS/2. When it’s outselling a five-year old system, you let me know. “
Welch, I’m not talking about sales, I’m talking about brand names. “Xbox” is more used in pop culture than is “Playstation”. Sorry if that pisses you off (actually, I’m not, I’m happy to see you pissed off). And that means that the name “Xbox”, initially mocked, turned out to be a good name. “iPod” was initially mocked too (but as a Jobs Sycophant, you gloss over that part).
And regarding video game console sales, you’re seriously comparing a $400 sytstem to a $130 system? Porsche has fewer sales than Hyundai, but which is more prevelant in pop-culture? Which do you see in (the god awful) music videos as status symbols? Anyway, “Playstation” is a more powerful brandname in the marketplace, but it’s not as “cool” a name as “Xbox” (and I use pop culture to back that up), which is what I was getting at.
BTW, “Xbox” is referred to in much pop-culture besides 30 Rock; that was just an example.
Oh, and 30 Rock is a great show, IMO. But to each his own. Resorting to bashing me because of a show that I like shows that you really have no argument to make. Goebbels is a joke, but you’re much worse. Because, unlike Goebbels, you’re actually intelligent. Intelligent enough to know that much of what you say is garbage, but you say it anyway. You’re also much ruder and cruder than Goebbels. I don’t know what you’re problem is, or why your posts are so often angry, but you need help.
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“The Xbox is a more popular pop-culture reference? That means less than it used to since the Xbox 360 STILL can’t outsell the PS/2. When it’s outselling a five-year old system, you let me know. “
Welch, I’m not talking about sales, I’m talking about brand names. “Xbox” is more used in pop culture than is “Playstation”. Sorry if that pisses you off (actually, I’m not, I’m happy to see you pissed off). And that means that the name “Xbox”, initially mocked, turned out to be a good name. “iPod” was initially mocked too (but as a Jobs Sycophant, you gloss over that part).
And regarding video game console sales, you’re seriously comparing a $400 sytstem to a $130 system? Porsche has fewer sales than Hyundai, but which is more prevelant in pop-culture? Which do you see in (the god awful) music videos as status symbols? Anyway, “Playstation” is a more powerful brandname in the marketplace, but it’s not as “cool” a name as “Xbox” (and I use pop culture to back that up), which is what I was getting at.
BTW, “Xbox” is referred to in much pop-culture besides 30 Rock; that was just an example.
Oh, and 30 Rock is a great show, IMO. But to each his own. Resorting to bashing me because of a show that I like shows that you really have no argument to make. Goebbels is a joke, but you’re much worse. Because, unlike Goebbels, you’re actually intelligent. Intelligent enough to know that much of what you say is garbage, but you say it anyway. You’re also much ruder and cruder than Goebbels. I don’t know what you’re problem is, or why your posts are so often angry, but you need help.
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“But, John…? But, John, eve you disagree with me? Don’t you?
Oops.”
LOL
Goebbels, what you missed is how easy it is to play Welch. He compliments Microsoft on the name, then I push his buttons a bit (very easy to do with him), and I get him all riled going against his initial position (or, at least trying to distance himself from it) and agreeing with you. It’s hilarious!
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“But, John…? But, John, eve you disagree with me? Don’t you?
Oops.”
LOL
Goebbels, what you missed is how easy it is to play Welch. He compliments Microsoft on the name, then I push his buttons a bit (very easy to do with him), and I get him all riled going against his initial position (or, at least trying to distance himself from it) and agreeing with you. It’s hilarious!
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Robinson, would you care to show me where I’ve gone against my initial position?
Hmm…let’s see:
I initially said:
I’ll believe it when I don’t see non-MS platforms in the “Shitacular WM Experience” ghetto that Microsoft has worked so hard to put them in. When I can play full on WM11 video with DRM in Firefox on Linux or Mac OS X, and I can to it as a full shipping product for more than a single product cycle, I’ll believe it. That was in comment #2
I do in fact have extreme doubts that Microsoft will support this beyond an initial release in a cross-platform stance. This is based on two points among many. First, the initial BS about Active X being cross-platform. That got double-tapped and buried in the ditch out back pretty fast. More recently, Rotor, which went from being supported on a number of platforms with version 1.x to a Windows – only toy with version 2. Another example? The way WM was, and still is by the way, treated on non-Microsoft platforms. Another example of Microsoft being full of hot air about interop? Port25, their big “Look at our open source committment” site, which quickly turned into a shill for how great WIndows is, and how you can run all your open source software on Windows.
In comment #19, I pointed out to Wreck that WM is a real issue in the business world for !MS platform users. I pointed out to notaprguy that if you are a Windows-only shop, and all your customers are Windows only, WM is just fine. It’s when you try to branch out past Microsoft platforms that it becomes a real problem, and that outside of Windows, the dev tools for Silverlight are rather limited.
I did say, and I still say, that Silverlight is a decent name. It has little to do with WPF, but it’s easy to remember, catchy, and creates a tangible image when you think of the word. That’s a great bit of marketing there, and for a company like Microsoft that specializes in turning cool names into crap, a real accomplishment.
Moving on to comment #20, that other than MP3, Silverlight only supports Microsoft codecs, so if you’re using H.264 for HD, because it’s an open standard, then you have to transcode. That’s not a great option, transcoding is never perfectly clean. Based on that information, gained from the Silverlight FAQ, I said that it’s an improvement for WM in a cross-platform sense, but that it’s not on a par with Flash at either the client or dev tools level.
#23 was just me being impressed with Coulter pulling in some cool references for Silverlight. I still am.
#36 was after you tried to use a really inane example, (Xbox references on 30 Rock as a way of showing Microsoft is cool???) and tried to justify your own mindless swilling of the Microsoft PR Flavor-Aid. I’m still being consistent. Silverlight is a cool name. But it’s one name. That’s not a “new” anything, it’s just a random occurrence, especially when compared to the continual pathetic comedy that is the WIndowsMSNOfficeLive branding clusterfuck.
I also pointed out that a cool name doesn’t make up for deficiences in the product, and that if the Xbox 360 is so cool, how come it can’t outsell the PS/2 month to month? I was kind, and left off how Microsoft got busted channel-stuffing the 360.
#41 was a reply to Scott Barnes, pointing out the limitations of Silverlight, esp. with regard to Linux and using non-MS codecs. MP3 support is hardly some blinding flash of a new open attitude. I also reiterated my point that short of using text editors or other hacks, for a company to start doing real dev work on Silverlight, they have to move that work onto Windows boxes and Microsoft tools. that’s going to be a real limitation for a segment used to working on, well, whatever.
I also pointed out that Microsoft has made grandiose interop statements before, and none of them lasted long enough to really count, and how Silverlight still reeks of the old Microsoft that is still the current Microsoft.
Also note that I disagree with Goebbels’ opinion of Silverlight. (I’m the one that likes the name, DO try to keep it straight), but I agree with his opinion that Microsoft branding/marketing is far from “fixed” as you want to believe it is based on less than a handful of products.
Dude, you have about as much “play” skills as a 3 year old, only you’re less cute. Good job on showing where I’ve tried to distance myself from my points. This whole “arguing with people out of kindergarten” is new to you, isn’t it.
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Robinson, would you care to show me where I’ve gone against my initial position?
Hmm…let’s see:
I initially said:
I’ll believe it when I don’t see non-MS platforms in the “Shitacular WM Experience” ghetto that Microsoft has worked so hard to put them in. When I can play full on WM11 video with DRM in Firefox on Linux or Mac OS X, and I can to it as a full shipping product for more than a single product cycle, I’ll believe it. That was in comment #2
I do in fact have extreme doubts that Microsoft will support this beyond an initial release in a cross-platform stance. This is based on two points among many. First, the initial BS about Active X being cross-platform. That got double-tapped and buried in the ditch out back pretty fast. More recently, Rotor, which went from being supported on a number of platforms with version 1.x to a Windows – only toy with version 2. Another example? The way WM was, and still is by the way, treated on non-Microsoft platforms. Another example of Microsoft being full of hot air about interop? Port25, their big “Look at our open source committment” site, which quickly turned into a shill for how great WIndows is, and how you can run all your open source software on Windows.
In comment #19, I pointed out to Wreck that WM is a real issue in the business world for !MS platform users. I pointed out to notaprguy that if you are a Windows-only shop, and all your customers are Windows only, WM is just fine. It’s when you try to branch out past Microsoft platforms that it becomes a real problem, and that outside of Windows, the dev tools for Silverlight are rather limited.
I did say, and I still say, that Silverlight is a decent name. It has little to do with WPF, but it’s easy to remember, catchy, and creates a tangible image when you think of the word. That’s a great bit of marketing there, and for a company like Microsoft that specializes in turning cool names into crap, a real accomplishment.
Moving on to comment #20, that other than MP3, Silverlight only supports Microsoft codecs, so if you’re using H.264 for HD, because it’s an open standard, then you have to transcode. That’s not a great option, transcoding is never perfectly clean. Based on that information, gained from the Silverlight FAQ, I said that it’s an improvement for WM in a cross-platform sense, but that it’s not on a par with Flash at either the client or dev tools level.
#23 was just me being impressed with Coulter pulling in some cool references for Silverlight. I still am.
#36 was after you tried to use a really inane example, (Xbox references on 30 Rock as a way of showing Microsoft is cool???) and tried to justify your own mindless swilling of the Microsoft PR Flavor-Aid. I’m still being consistent. Silverlight is a cool name. But it’s one name. That’s not a “new” anything, it’s just a random occurrence, especially when compared to the continual pathetic comedy that is the WIndowsMSNOfficeLive branding clusterfuck.
I also pointed out that a cool name doesn’t make up for deficiences in the product, and that if the Xbox 360 is so cool, how come it can’t outsell the PS/2 month to month? I was kind, and left off how Microsoft got busted channel-stuffing the 360.
#41 was a reply to Scott Barnes, pointing out the limitations of Silverlight, esp. with regard to Linux and using non-MS codecs. MP3 support is hardly some blinding flash of a new open attitude. I also reiterated my point that short of using text editors or other hacks, for a company to start doing real dev work on Silverlight, they have to move that work onto Windows boxes and Microsoft tools. that’s going to be a real limitation for a segment used to working on, well, whatever.
I also pointed out that Microsoft has made grandiose interop statements before, and none of them lasted long enough to really count, and how Silverlight still reeks of the old Microsoft that is still the current Microsoft.
Also note that I disagree with Goebbels’ opinion of Silverlight. (I’m the one that likes the name, DO try to keep it straight), but I agree with his opinion that Microsoft branding/marketing is far from “fixed” as you want to believe it is based on less than a handful of products.
Dude, you have about as much “play” skills as a 3 year old, only you’re less cute. Good job on showing where I’ve tried to distance myself from my points. This whole “arguing with people out of kindergarten” is new to you, isn’t it.
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http://thewpfblog.com/?p=107
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http://thewpfblog.com/?p=107
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Somehow Goebbels, I doubt that even the crackheads in Microsoft’s branding department are THAT addle-pated.
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Somehow Goebbels, I doubt that even the crackheads in Microsoft’s branding department are THAT addle-pated.
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John, that’s the point: it is a joke, and it’s even created by a Microsoft employee. I’m not the only one making the “not favorable” mental connections.
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John, that’s the point: it is a joke, and it’s even created by a Microsoft employee. I’m not the only one making the “not favorable” mental connections.
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Sorry… not an employee, but a WPF supporter.
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Sorry… not an employee, but a WPF supporter.
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“Is Linux really cheaper to manage? How so? I’ve heard that Windows tends to be cheaper to manage because (1) there are more people who know how to do it and (2) there are more admin tools avaialbe. I could be wrong.”
Of course there are 😉 Universities have been admin’ing *nix for years.
Linux tools are all there, debconf and apt-get local repo’s for Ubuntu/debian, and I know the other distribs have their own tools. Then there’s thin clients, the Linux Terminal Services Project, openLDAP, etc. Groupware programs exist as well, like Zimbra and OpenScalix and others.
Anyways I’m not an advertisement or anything, but this statement just jumped out at me.
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“Is Linux really cheaper to manage? How so? I’ve heard that Windows tends to be cheaper to manage because (1) there are more people who know how to do it and (2) there are more admin tools avaialbe. I could be wrong.”
Of course there are 😉 Universities have been admin’ing *nix for years.
Linux tools are all there, debconf and apt-get local repo’s for Ubuntu/debian, and I know the other distribs have their own tools. Then there’s thin clients, the Linux Terminal Services Project, openLDAP, etc. Groupware programs exist as well, like Zimbra and OpenScalix and others.
Anyways I’m not an advertisement or anything, but this statement just jumped out at me.
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