Liz Lawley wonders why I hyped up all things Microsoft when I worked there, but now don’t get excited anymore. She missed that I was only talking about Internet stuff that goes in the Web browser, not stuff that Microsoft is more traditionally known for like Windows and Xbox and all that. I don’t remember too many things I hyped up back then that were Web services. Virtual Earth is one glaring example. Yeah, that still wows me. I still love a lot about Microsoft (the first time, if you remember, I saw Office 2007’s new interface I said “wow”) but look at the examples Liz got excited about. Do they really make you go “wow?”
I still get excited by Vista, Halo, Tablet PCs, new mice, etc.
UPDATE: One area where I was wow’ed and now am seeing that wow tempered is Windows Presentation Foundation. It builds the coolest demos (see Tim Sneath’s blog). But now that I have a Macintosh I find it isn’t nearly as interesting as when I lived in Windows-only world. Why? Cause WPF/E isn’t done, doesn’t run every WPF application, and for tools developers will need to use Windows (the best tools, Expression and Visual Studio are Windows only).
Oh, and Liz, I hate your comments. I have to register just to leave you a comment. That sucks.
The real point here is to look at the commentary my post started. Not many people could come up with things that Microsoft has done lately that get them excited about its stance on the Internet. Can anyone else come up with some?
Scobleizer 
Liz is right you don’t wow us anymore!
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Liz is right you don’t wow us anymore!
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Liz is right you don’t wow us anymore!
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Al, OK, so what “wow’s” you about Microsoft lately? I have seen a lot of attacks but not a whole lot of disagreement. The only ones who are disagreeing are Microsoft employees, people who’ve been associated with Microsoft, MVPs, or people who are long-time fans. That’s the WHOLE problem. Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces, which are where most of Microsoft’s future growth will come from (according to Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s president, when he spoke to our group).
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Al, OK, so what “wow’s” you about Microsoft lately? I have seen a lot of attacks but not a whole lot of disagreement. The only ones who are disagreeing are Microsoft employees, people who’ve been associated with Microsoft, MVPs, or people who are long-time fans. That’s the WHOLE problem. Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces, which are where most of Microsoft’s future growth will come from (according to Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s president, when he spoke to our group).
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Al, OK, so what “wow’s” you about Microsoft lately? I have seen a lot of attacks but not a whole lot of disagreement. The only ones who are disagreeing are Microsoft employees, people who’ve been associated with Microsoft, MVPs, or people who are long-time fans. That’s the WHOLE problem. Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces, which are where most of Microsoft’s future growth will come from (according to Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s president, when he spoke to our group).
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Robert, do you know about the new Xbox Rewards program?
It is set along the lines of achievements/gamerscore, in which you are “rewarded” with completing a challenge. The current challenge is to raise your gamerscore by 1,500 points. It is a first come, first serve for the prizes though.
http://xboxrewards.msgamestudios.com/
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Robert, do you know about the new Xbox Rewards program?
It is set along the lines of achievements/gamerscore, in which you are “rewarded” with completing a challenge. The current challenge is to raise your gamerscore by 1,500 points. It is a first come, first serve for the prizes though.
http://xboxrewards.msgamestudios.com/
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Robert, do you know about the new Xbox Rewards program?
It is set along the lines of achievements/gamerscore, in which you are “rewarded” with completing a challenge. The current challenge is to raise your gamerscore by 1,500 points. It is a first come, first serve for the prizes though.
http://xboxrewards.msgamestudios.com/
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from a developer’s side robert Microsoft has severely screwed up with Visual Studio / NET 3.0 / Vista / SP1 (VS for Vista). Just do a search on that and you’ll see the rumblings of some very upset developers.
The whole implementation for being able to do WPF applications was haphazard at best IMO so really how can you expect developers to rush out programs to take advantage of WPF when their tools to do so don’t work right.
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from a developer’s side robert Microsoft has severely screwed up with Visual Studio / NET 3.0 / Vista / SP1 (VS for Vista). Just do a search on that and you’ll see the rumblings of some very upset developers.
The whole implementation for being able to do WPF applications was haphazard at best IMO so really how can you expect developers to rush out programs to take advantage of WPF when their tools to do so don’t work right.
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from a developer’s side robert Microsoft has severely screwed up with Visual Studio / NET 3.0 / Vista / SP1 (VS for Vista). Just do a search on that and you’ll see the rumblings of some very upset developers.
The whole implementation for being able to do WPF applications was haphazard at best IMO so really how can you expect developers to rush out programs to take advantage of WPF when their tools to do so don’t work right.
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I say again: ASP.Net 2.0
The 75% or so in code reduction is no lie.
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I say again: ASP.Net 2.0
The 75% or so in code reduction is no lie.
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I say again: ASP.Net 2.0
The 75% or so in code reduction is no lie.
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Outside of gaming who *is* getting excited over Microsoft? Vista != WOW (unless you say it with teenage sarcasm voice).
I was a MVP, Aspinsider, community leader and other Microsoft development ra-ra-ra cheerleading type stuff. *Was* a long-term fan. Switched to Mac. I have never been happier.
Microsoft does do some things well. Doing things competently doesn’t get people excited, let’s see something *outstanding*!
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Outside of gaming who *is* getting excited over Microsoft? Vista != WOW (unless you say it with teenage sarcasm voice).
I was a MVP, Aspinsider, community leader and other Microsoft development ra-ra-ra cheerleading type stuff. *Was* a long-term fan. Switched to Mac. I have never been happier.
Microsoft does do some things well. Doing things competently doesn’t get people excited, let’s see something *outstanding*!
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Outside of gaming who *is* getting excited over Microsoft? Vista != WOW (unless you say it with teenage sarcasm voice).
I was a MVP, Aspinsider, community leader and other Microsoft development ra-ra-ra cheerleading type stuff. *Was* a long-term fan. Switched to Mac. I have never been happier.
Microsoft does do some things well. Doing things competently doesn’t get people excited, let’s see something *outstanding*!
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I worked with Scoble at Microsoft Evangelism and now I am a Microsoft Partner. I agree with Robert. Expression rocks (seriuously, if you use Windows, download the trials, it’s worth it), but the lack of Macintosh support and the delayed launch of WPF/E hurt adoption.
I think a bigger problem is how badly Microsoft distributes its own free technology today. Flash and JVMs are common today because of bundling with IE4 in the late nineties. In contrast, Microsoft always did a very bad job distributing all versions of the .NET Framework. Vista has .NET FX 3.0 out of the box, but Microsoft should be giving incentives for XP users to install it. Wide distribution and universality of the runtime environment is more important than the quality of the development tools.
And the final version of WPF/E should be as quick and simple to install as Flash Player. People upgrade Flash Player all the time, without even noticing. Adobe’s secret: cool content – people are always willing to update Flash Player to see the latest Nike hotsite. WPF/E should be launched with some rocking early adopters to receive the same treatment.
Other than that, there’s enough in Expression, WPF and WPF/E to wow even hardcore Adobe/Macromedia folks. However, there’s inertia, and Microsoft needs to make clear why designers/developers need to learn yet another set of tools. I list below some reasons:
In my own experience, I think Expression Web is cleaner and more standards-oriented than Dreamweaver. Try for yourself.
Expression Blend is the best application prototyping/design environment I ever saw; version 1.0 won’t support WPF/E (shame), so it will be more valuable for .NET desktop developers (corporate and ISV). Once WPF/E support is there, Adobe Flex will be an even weaker proposition than it is today. If Microsoft does a decent job of supporting other platforms and distributing WPF/E, there will be many Flash switchers out there.
Expression Design is a niche tool, but one that complements very well the arsenal of tools of any designer/developer; by using it the right way, combined with Expression Blend’s resource dictionaries, you can design very sophisticated custom control palletes that can boost produtivity 10 times for complex interactive applications.
Expression media is a nice asset management tool, large studios and development teams will like it.
The weak spots? Besides the delays in WPF/E, one thing that takes a lot of the charm of Expression is the weak support of Visual Studio Team System.
With an universal Web-based runtime (WPF/E) correctly deployed and integration to Visual Studio Team System in place Microsoft can make a revolution in niches such as Internet Banking and E-Commerce. Problem is, there’s no clear roadmaps for those to happen.
Finally, but this is too far-fetched to become a reality, Microsoft should partner with someone in the Java/PHP camp to develop XAML support in LAMP tools and Eclipse. It doesn’t take genius to realize that it would help adoption of XAML and WPF/E as true standards.
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I worked with Scoble at Microsoft Evangelism and now I am a Microsoft Partner. I agree with Robert. Expression rocks (seriuously, if you use Windows, download the trials, it’s worth it), but the lack of Macintosh support and the delayed launch of WPF/E hurt adoption.
I think a bigger problem is how badly Microsoft distributes its own free technology today. Flash and JVMs are common today because of bundling with IE4 in the late nineties. In contrast, Microsoft always did a very bad job distributing all versions of the .NET Framework. Vista has .NET FX 3.0 out of the box, but Microsoft should be giving incentives for XP users to install it. Wide distribution and universality of the runtime environment is more important than the quality of the development tools.
And the final version of WPF/E should be as quick and simple to install as Flash Player. People upgrade Flash Player all the time, without even noticing. Adobe’s secret: cool content – people are always willing to update Flash Player to see the latest Nike hotsite. WPF/E should be launched with some rocking early adopters to receive the same treatment.
Other than that, there’s enough in Expression, WPF and WPF/E to wow even hardcore Adobe/Macromedia folks. However, there’s inertia, and Microsoft needs to make clear why designers/developers need to learn yet another set of tools. I list below some reasons:
In my own experience, I think Expression Web is cleaner and more standards-oriented than Dreamweaver. Try for yourself.
Expression Blend is the best application prototyping/design environment I ever saw; version 1.0 won’t support WPF/E (shame), so it will be more valuable for .NET desktop developers (corporate and ISV). Once WPF/E support is there, Adobe Flex will be an even weaker proposition than it is today. If Microsoft does a decent job of supporting other platforms and distributing WPF/E, there will be many Flash switchers out there.
Expression Design is a niche tool, but one that complements very well the arsenal of tools of any designer/developer; by using it the right way, combined with Expression Blend’s resource dictionaries, you can design very sophisticated custom control palletes that can boost produtivity 10 times for complex interactive applications.
Expression media is a nice asset management tool, large studios and development teams will like it.
The weak spots? Besides the delays in WPF/E, one thing that takes a lot of the charm of Expression is the weak support of Visual Studio Team System.
With an universal Web-based runtime (WPF/E) correctly deployed and integration to Visual Studio Team System in place Microsoft can make a revolution in niches such as Internet Banking and E-Commerce. Problem is, there’s no clear roadmaps for those to happen.
Finally, but this is too far-fetched to become a reality, Microsoft should partner with someone in the Java/PHP camp to develop XAML support in LAMP tools and Eclipse. It doesn’t take genius to realize that it would help adoption of XAML and WPF/E as true standards.
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I have been playing a lot with Windows Live Search for my phone… I’m using it on my Cingular 8525. I have to say that it’s pretty nice for one spectacular reason:
Traffic.
It’s way more accurate than Google traffic on my same device. I don’t like the traffic implementation in WLS Mobile as much (refreshes the whole map vs. an overlay), but it’s accurate and precise (i.e. it actually has my freeway on it where Google does not). Google traffic is just plain wrong or absent in many locations.
I drove through Marin, Oakland, Berkeley etc. all this weekend and knew where / when to go because of it. I even went shopping in Petaluma using it (did a search, scrolled around as we drove to find the next destination).
I have a TrafficGauge for the Bay Area as well. While its single-purpose use and interface is great, I travel a lot and need to take the traffic with me. North Marin isn’t represented either.
Also, WPF/E is going to be good. As a company, we’re looking at “what’s next” for our UI, and we’re pondering not going to WPF at all, but writing everything as WPF/E. That way we support a broader audience.
I’ve also been working a lot with MOSS in the wiki and blogging functions. There is a lot of value there, but it’s a little off the mark. I wish the commentary aspect of the wiki from wikimedia was in MOSS. There’s no reason for it not to be. It’s the missing collaborative element.
The wiki/blog experience has been mind-opening at the company though… I’m the lone crusader so far, but it’s winning people over despite the complaints over structure etc. The fact it’s baked into sites right next to other SharePoint functions is huge.
TTFN
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I have been playing a lot with Windows Live Search for my phone… I’m using it on my Cingular 8525. I have to say that it’s pretty nice for one spectacular reason:
Traffic.
It’s way more accurate than Google traffic on my same device. I don’t like the traffic implementation in WLS Mobile as much (refreshes the whole map vs. an overlay), but it’s accurate and precise (i.e. it actually has my freeway on it where Google does not). Google traffic is just plain wrong or absent in many locations.
I drove through Marin, Oakland, Berkeley etc. all this weekend and knew where / when to go because of it. I even went shopping in Petaluma using it (did a search, scrolled around as we drove to find the next destination).
I have a TrafficGauge for the Bay Area as well. While its single-purpose use and interface is great, I travel a lot and need to take the traffic with me. North Marin isn’t represented either.
Also, WPF/E is going to be good. As a company, we’re looking at “what’s next” for our UI, and we’re pondering not going to WPF at all, but writing everything as WPF/E. That way we support a broader audience.
I’ve also been working a lot with MOSS in the wiki and blogging functions. There is a lot of value there, but it’s a little off the mark. I wish the commentary aspect of the wiki from wikimedia was in MOSS. There’s no reason for it not to be. It’s the missing collaborative element.
The wiki/blog experience has been mind-opening at the company though… I’m the lone crusader so far, but it’s winning people over despite the complaints over structure etc. The fact it’s baked into sites right next to other SharePoint functions is huge.
TTFN
LikeLike
I have been playing a lot with Windows Live Search for my phone… I’m using it on my Cingular 8525. I have to say that it’s pretty nice for one spectacular reason:
Traffic.
It’s way more accurate than Google traffic on my same device. I don’t like the traffic implementation in WLS Mobile as much (refreshes the whole map vs. an overlay), but it’s accurate and precise (i.e. it actually has my freeway on it where Google does not). Google traffic is just plain wrong or absent in many locations.
I drove through Marin, Oakland, Berkeley etc. all this weekend and knew where / when to go because of it. I even went shopping in Petaluma using it (did a search, scrolled around as we drove to find the next destination).
I have a TrafficGauge for the Bay Area as well. While its single-purpose use and interface is great, I travel a lot and need to take the traffic with me. North Marin isn’t represented either.
Also, WPF/E is going to be good. As a company, we’re looking at “what’s next” for our UI, and we’re pondering not going to WPF at all, but writing everything as WPF/E. That way we support a broader audience.
I’ve also been working a lot with MOSS in the wiki and blogging functions. There is a lot of value there, but it’s a little off the mark. I wish the commentary aspect of the wiki from wikimedia was in MOSS. There’s no reason for it not to be. It’s the missing collaborative element.
The wiki/blog experience has been mind-opening at the company though… I’m the lone crusader so far, but it’s winning people over despite the complaints over structure etc. The fact it’s baked into sites right next to other SharePoint functions is huge.
TTFN
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Windows Live Writer is not bad (apart from the fact that it only runs on Windows!)
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Windows Live Writer is not bad (apart from the fact that it only runs on Windows!)
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Windows Live Writer is not bad (apart from the fact that it only runs on Windows!)
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A quick Google for Flip flop and guess who is the #1 result?
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A quick Google for Flip flop and guess who is the #1 result?
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A quick Google for Flip flop and guess who is the #1 result?
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> Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces
Really? So startups are writing web sites that work only on Firefox and Safari and fail to load in IE6 or IE7? So web-based spreadsheets can be incompatible with Excel files?
Define “important”. Define “relevant”.
Microsoft has problems, but they’re standard big company problems. The battleship doesn’t turn fast enough.
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> Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces
Really? So startups are writing web sites that work only on Firefox and Safari and fail to load in IE6 or IE7? So web-based spreadsheets can be incompatible with Excel files?
Define “important”. Define “relevant”.
Microsoft has problems, but they’re standard big company problems. The battleship doesn’t turn fast enough.
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> Microsoft isn’t convincing anyone else that it’s important or relevant anymore — at least in the Internet and advertising spaces
Really? So startups are writing web sites that work only on Firefox and Safari and fail to load in IE6 or IE7? So web-based spreadsheets can be incompatible with Excel files?
Define “important”. Define “relevant”.
Microsoft has problems, but they’re standard big company problems. The battleship doesn’t turn fast enough.
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Jeff, only a Microsoft fanboy would think important means locking out the competition.
Microsoft’s “importance” problem is that it continues to lock out competitors despite its claim of potential platform independencies.
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Jeff, only a Microsoft fanboy would think important means locking out the competition.
Microsoft’s “importance” problem is that it continues to lock out competitors despite its claim of potential platform independencies.
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Jeff, only a Microsoft fanboy would think important means locking out the competition.
Microsoft’s “importance” problem is that it continues to lock out competitors despite its claim of potential platform independencies.
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Jeff and Keith: I think I get where we’re having a disconnect.
Let’s separate out status quo from where Microsoft (or the software industry) will see growth.
That’s why I don’t think SQL Server, or new features on MSN Messenger, or Windows Vista/Office are all that exciting. Microsoft simply won’t see much growth from those (at least not more than the growth rates they have seen for the last four years, which is why the stock market has only increased Microsoft’s stock around 20% since I became a Microsoft employee).
When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects. Things that are different today than yesterday. Or things that’ll get developers to switch from Google, or Adobe, or Apple and toward Microsoft stuff (or vice versa).
ASP.NET 2.0? Not interesting, even though there are millions of people using it (and who, even, love it). I just don’t see it growing Microsoft’s market that much. Now, you might disagree, and I’d love to hear your reasons (they make good fodder when I interview people involved in the Linux industry).
When I say I see a lot of people moving away from Microsoft approaches and/or that Ray Ozzie’s silence is growing louder, that’s what I’m talking about.
And, internally, Kevin Johnson told us that Microsoft’s future growth will come on Internet and advertising. That’s Microsoft’s own leadership saying that. He knows what field the ball is on. ASP.NET might play a role there, but they haven’t shown developers yet how the ball gets into the goal with ASP.NET or WPF yet.
Tomorrow Adobe is doing a big show and tell. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of that, and then what Microsoft does to keep developers on its team.
It’s interesting that despite having tens of thousands of readers, including many influential developers from around the world, that the above 12 comments are the best that Microsoft can garner.
This is a street fight over developers and the developers are leaving for Amazon, Google, and Adobe. How do I know that? I just interviewed a ton of them and I read 600 of the world’s most interesting tech blogs and I haven’t seen anyone really dispute that in any real way. I know Ray Ozzie is reading this stuff (Mini sure is, he linked this morning).
I guess we’ll have to wait until May to hear what Microsoft is doing for developers. The posts above show the developers are restless at minimum and are actively leaving the Microsoft camp at worst. Either story is not good for Microsoft long term.
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Jeff and Keith: I think I get where we’re having a disconnect.
Let’s separate out status quo from where Microsoft (or the software industry) will see growth.
That’s why I don’t think SQL Server, or new features on MSN Messenger, or Windows Vista/Office are all that exciting. Microsoft simply won’t see much growth from those (at least not more than the growth rates they have seen for the last four years, which is why the stock market has only increased Microsoft’s stock around 20% since I became a Microsoft employee).
When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects. Things that are different today than yesterday. Or things that’ll get developers to switch from Google, or Adobe, or Apple and toward Microsoft stuff (or vice versa).
ASP.NET 2.0? Not interesting, even though there are millions of people using it (and who, even, love it). I just don’t see it growing Microsoft’s market that much. Now, you might disagree, and I’d love to hear your reasons (they make good fodder when I interview people involved in the Linux industry).
When I say I see a lot of people moving away from Microsoft approaches and/or that Ray Ozzie’s silence is growing louder, that’s what I’m talking about.
And, internally, Kevin Johnson told us that Microsoft’s future growth will come on Internet and advertising. That’s Microsoft’s own leadership saying that. He knows what field the ball is on. ASP.NET might play a role there, but they haven’t shown developers yet how the ball gets into the goal with ASP.NET or WPF yet.
Tomorrow Adobe is doing a big show and tell. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of that, and then what Microsoft does to keep developers on its team.
It’s interesting that despite having tens of thousands of readers, including many influential developers from around the world, that the above 12 comments are the best that Microsoft can garner.
This is a street fight over developers and the developers are leaving for Amazon, Google, and Adobe. How do I know that? I just interviewed a ton of them and I read 600 of the world’s most interesting tech blogs and I haven’t seen anyone really dispute that in any real way. I know Ray Ozzie is reading this stuff (Mini sure is, he linked this morning).
I guess we’ll have to wait until May to hear what Microsoft is doing for developers. The posts above show the developers are restless at minimum and are actively leaving the Microsoft camp at worst. Either story is not good for Microsoft long term.
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Jeff and Keith: I think I get where we’re having a disconnect.
Let’s separate out status quo from where Microsoft (or the software industry) will see growth.
That’s why I don’t think SQL Server, or new features on MSN Messenger, or Windows Vista/Office are all that exciting. Microsoft simply won’t see much growth from those (at least not more than the growth rates they have seen for the last four years, which is why the stock market has only increased Microsoft’s stock around 20% since I became a Microsoft employee).
When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects. Things that are different today than yesterday. Or things that’ll get developers to switch from Google, or Adobe, or Apple and toward Microsoft stuff (or vice versa).
ASP.NET 2.0? Not interesting, even though there are millions of people using it (and who, even, love it). I just don’t see it growing Microsoft’s market that much. Now, you might disagree, and I’d love to hear your reasons (they make good fodder when I interview people involved in the Linux industry).
When I say I see a lot of people moving away from Microsoft approaches and/or that Ray Ozzie’s silence is growing louder, that’s what I’m talking about.
And, internally, Kevin Johnson told us that Microsoft’s future growth will come on Internet and advertising. That’s Microsoft’s own leadership saying that. He knows what field the ball is on. ASP.NET might play a role there, but they haven’t shown developers yet how the ball gets into the goal with ASP.NET or WPF yet.
Tomorrow Adobe is doing a big show and tell. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of that, and then what Microsoft does to keep developers on its team.
It’s interesting that despite having tens of thousands of readers, including many influential developers from around the world, that the above 12 comments are the best that Microsoft can garner.
This is a street fight over developers and the developers are leaving for Amazon, Google, and Adobe. How do I know that? I just interviewed a ton of them and I read 600 of the world’s most interesting tech blogs and I haven’t seen anyone really dispute that in any real way. I know Ray Ozzie is reading this stuff (Mini sure is, he linked this morning).
I guess we’ll have to wait until May to hear what Microsoft is doing for developers. The posts above show the developers are restless at minimum and are actively leaving the Microsoft camp at worst. Either story is not good for Microsoft long term.
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I think their biggest problems are twofold:
1. A lot of the people developing on the web either use LAMP or they develop their stuff on the mac. They are fighting a fight up the hill against people that just don’t trust MS anymore. F.i. @ 8 Marcello makes the remark that in his opinion expression is more standards oriented than Dreamweaver. It’s nice to note that, but making claims that Microsoft is more standards compliant than whatever what will always be related to the bad rep they’ve got with respect to their implementation of standards in IE. Most developers only for that reason have an aversion against MS. (it has costed them time which is valuable). Let’s not forget that this company also gave us frontpage and the frontpage extensions… There are indeed a lot of .Net programmers out there, but most of them reside in the enterprise.
2. It’s great to use the MS tools when you’re in an all MS environment. But outside of it, most stuff won’t work. WPF/E might be great, but unless I can develop for it using the environment I’m comfortable with, and run it i won’t even bother to investigate it.
I can understand why they take the route they take, and it makes perfect sense, but also don’t expect the web people to invest a lot of time in learning new tools and environments.
With regards to the Wow factor, the last time i had the wow was when i read the bare specs of the Zune. (Actually I really liked the WiFi part, but they ruined it later on with their implementation).
One thing I’ve noted is that they start very early in the process talking about their stuff, but delivery seems to take a very long time. (And I’m not talking about Vista). My take is that they should keep the marketing people out of the door as is possible and put stuff very fast out on the market as far as the web is concerned. Something like photosynth is nice, but they showed it last year, wowed a lot of people and now when they put it to the market the real wow factor is gone with those that influence..
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I think their biggest problems are twofold:
1. A lot of the people developing on the web either use LAMP or they develop their stuff on the mac. They are fighting a fight up the hill against people that just don’t trust MS anymore. F.i. @ 8 Marcello makes the remark that in his opinion expression is more standards oriented than Dreamweaver. It’s nice to note that, but making claims that Microsoft is more standards compliant than whatever what will always be related to the bad rep they’ve got with respect to their implementation of standards in IE. Most developers only for that reason have an aversion against MS. (it has costed them time which is valuable). Let’s not forget that this company also gave us frontpage and the frontpage extensions… There are indeed a lot of .Net programmers out there, but most of them reside in the enterprise.
2. It’s great to use the MS tools when you’re in an all MS environment. But outside of it, most stuff won’t work. WPF/E might be great, but unless I can develop for it using the environment I’m comfortable with, and run it i won’t even bother to investigate it.
I can understand why they take the route they take, and it makes perfect sense, but also don’t expect the web people to invest a lot of time in learning new tools and environments.
With regards to the Wow factor, the last time i had the wow was when i read the bare specs of the Zune. (Actually I really liked the WiFi part, but they ruined it later on with their implementation).
One thing I’ve noted is that they start very early in the process talking about their stuff, but delivery seems to take a very long time. (And I’m not talking about Vista). My take is that they should keep the marketing people out of the door as is possible and put stuff very fast out on the market as far as the web is concerned. Something like photosynth is nice, but they showed it last year, wowed a lot of people and now when they put it to the market the real wow factor is gone with those that influence..
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NEVER trust someone to be objective about their employers products vs alternatives. It’s not human nature, it’s certainly not smiled upon by most companies, and there are always more objective sources to go to.
It *is* useful to have an insiders perspective on a company, and for such insiders to establish their credibility they have to avoid statements that are verifiably false. But there is certainly no dearth of people willing and able to speak up on behalf of Microsoft, including people who have relatives on the payroll at the Washington Post.
View the comments for this article, written by Bill gates:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301697.html
What you’ll find is that among ordinary people, not technogeeks (well some of those in there too including mine) people’s opinions about Microsoft are almost uniformly negative. Even when Bill Gates makes several statements that most people would agree with, we almost universally question his motives.
Actions speak louder than words. We all know that. What the world waits for is some indication, not an open letter or a press release, that the company has changed its attitude about how it competes, and how its products fit into the vast world of technology.
The insatiable, palpably pathological urge for a few top executive to dominate, rather than just contribute to the “technosphere” worries the average informed person, and with good reason. What is needed is for these tendencies to not just be curbed, but *eliminated*.
Still watching for signs of (real) change.
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NEVER trust someone to be objective about their employers products vs alternatives. It’s not human nature, it’s certainly not smiled upon by most companies, and there are always more objective sources to go to.
It *is* useful to have an insiders perspective on a company, and for such insiders to establish their credibility they have to avoid statements that are verifiably false. But there is certainly no dearth of people willing and able to speak up on behalf of Microsoft, including people who have relatives on the payroll at the Washington Post.
View the comments for this article, written by Bill gates:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301697.html
What you’ll find is that among ordinary people, not technogeeks (well some of those in there too including mine) people’s opinions about Microsoft are almost uniformly negative. Even when Bill Gates makes several statements that most people would agree with, we almost universally question his motives.
Actions speak louder than words. We all know that. What the world waits for is some indication, not an open letter or a press release, that the company has changed its attitude about how it competes, and how its products fit into the vast world of technology.
The insatiable, palpably pathological urge for a few top executive to dominate, rather than just contribute to the “technosphere” worries the average informed person, and with good reason. What is needed is for these tendencies to not just be curbed, but *eliminated*.
Still watching for signs of (real) change.
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NEVER trust someone to be objective about their employers products vs alternatives. It’s not human nature, it’s certainly not smiled upon by most companies, and there are always more objective sources to go to.
It *is* useful to have an insiders perspective on a company, and for such insiders to establish their credibility they have to avoid statements that are verifiably false. But there is certainly no dearth of people willing and able to speak up on behalf of Microsoft, including people who have relatives on the payroll at the Washington Post.
View the comments for this article, written by Bill gates:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301697.html
What you’ll find is that among ordinary people, not technogeeks (well some of those in there too including mine) people’s opinions about Microsoft are almost uniformly negative. Even when Bill Gates makes several statements that most people would agree with, we almost universally question his motives.
Actions speak louder than words. We all know that. What the world waits for is some indication, not an open letter or a press release, that the company has changed its attitude about how it competes, and how its products fit into the vast world of technology.
The insatiable, palpably pathological urge for a few top executive to dominate, rather than just contribute to the “technosphere” worries the average informed person, and with good reason. What is needed is for these tendencies to not just be curbed, but *eliminated*.
Still watching for signs of (real) change.
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How can you get excited about Vista. I think its the Dumbest thing Microsoft has made.
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How can you get excited about Vista. I think its the Dumbest thing Microsoft has made.
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“When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects.”
Speaking of “Wow”…Wow, Robert’s become an insurance salesman!
It sounds like you’re loading the semantics of the question to support your theory that MS doesn’t have anything exciting. If “wow” is about market potential, fine, but that’s not what excites me as a developer. But on the other hand, I say that ASP.Net is an exciting technology because it reduces my app’s code by 75%, yet you say developers have to wait until May to see what MS is doing for us.
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“When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects.”
Speaking of “Wow”…Wow, Robert’s become an insurance salesman!
It sounds like you’re loading the semantics of the question to support your theory that MS doesn’t have anything exciting. If “wow” is about market potential, fine, but that’s not what excites me as a developer. But on the other hand, I say that ASP.Net is an exciting technology because it reduces my app’s code by 75%, yet you say developers have to wait until May to see what MS is doing for us.
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“This is a street fight over developers and the developers are leaving for Amazon, Google, and Adobe. How do I know that? I just interviewed a ton of them and I read 600 of the world’s most interesting tech blogs and I haven’t seen anyone really dispute that in any real way.”
…and you somehow didnt realize this while you were interviewing developers at Microsoft and reading 400 of the world’s interesting tech blogs? This isnt breaking news – developers and smart people in general have been leaving MS in droves post 1999. Yet we kept getting the same informercial drivel in your blog. Either you were too dumb to notice (not likely) or you chose not to rock the boat.
Lots of people at the time were saying that you had a credibility issue with regards to Longhorn. It could be because you were absolutely adament on a seemingly daily basis that Longhorn was the greatest thing since canned corn. You even blogged about having built your life around it. Now that you away from MS and you actually have to live with Window’s issues and shortcomings and cant just call a team’s war room to get the bugs that bother you fixed, the world seems a bit different.
You speak of a disconnect. The real disconnect is that you dont seem willing to bet your own paycheck and/or reputation on vista infrastructure for video editing but you’ve asked us to do exactly that for years. See the problem?
Actually having to pay for stuff also changes perspectives of MS products from most of the ex-MS employees that I know. But that may not apply to you….have you returned those editing machine “loans” that you are “reviewing” by editing your day-to day videos yet? If not, then tell me again how they will be returned “soon” and/or how open-ended “loans” are different from ethically wrong gifts.
WhoKnew
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“This is a street fight over developers and the developers are leaving for Amazon, Google, and Adobe. How do I know that? I just interviewed a ton of them and I read 600 of the world’s most interesting tech blogs and I haven’t seen anyone really dispute that in any real way.”
…and you somehow didnt realize this while you were interviewing developers at Microsoft and reading 400 of the world’s interesting tech blogs? This isnt breaking news – developers and smart people in general have been leaving MS in droves post 1999. Yet we kept getting the same informercial drivel in your blog. Either you were too dumb to notice (not likely) or you chose not to rock the boat.
Lots of people at the time were saying that you had a credibility issue with regards to Longhorn. It could be because you were absolutely adament on a seemingly daily basis that Longhorn was the greatest thing since canned corn. You even blogged about having built your life around it. Now that you away from MS and you actually have to live with Window’s issues and shortcomings and cant just call a team’s war room to get the bugs that bother you fixed, the world seems a bit different.
You speak of a disconnect. The real disconnect is that you dont seem willing to bet your own paycheck and/or reputation on vista infrastructure for video editing but you’ve asked us to do exactly that for years. See the problem?
Actually having to pay for stuff also changes perspectives of MS products from most of the ex-MS employees that I know. But that may not apply to you….have you returned those editing machine “loans” that you are “reviewing” by editing your day-to day videos yet? If not, then tell me again how they will be returned “soon” and/or how open-ended “loans” are different from ethically wrong gifts.
WhoKnew
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@14
“It’s interesting that despite having tens of thousands of readers, including many influential developers from around the world, that the above 12 comments are the best that Microsoft can garner.”
It’s very tiring to stand up for Microsoft everytime. I mean, it doesn’t matter what the real issue is – there are more MS bashers in the blogosphere(blogger and commentors) than people who comment based on an issue. So quite of a lot of vocal technically sound MSFT employees simply have given up trying to refute each and every anti-MSFT thing. But that doesn’t mean they all agree with that.
However i agree with the rest of your comments. There isn’t enough internet focus currently. I would think of 2 reason for that
1) Until very recently almost everyone inside MSFT didnt get online. They viewed it as a passing fad. The Netscape experience kept telling everyone that its a matter of time before MSFT wins again.
2) By the time ‘the online is future’ realization happened – VISTA was draining energies so that added to some more slowness. Think of all the screwups frmo MSFT in the last 18-24 months and see how you can trace the roots to VISTA for most of them.
But again, irrespective of the platform Microsoft hardly won anything with a ‘WOW’. It was just relentless pursuit and ‘Version 3’ softwares. I do see quite subtle changes that indicate the online is future realization inside the company. (Today Microsoft is announcing acquisition of a medical search company and its foray in to the healthcare verticals. As per the early reports it really looks like a service based approach)
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@14
“It’s interesting that despite having tens of thousands of readers, including many influential developers from around the world, that the above 12 comments are the best that Microsoft can garner.”
It’s very tiring to stand up for Microsoft everytime. I mean, it doesn’t matter what the real issue is – there are more MS bashers in the blogosphere(blogger and commentors) than people who comment based on an issue. So quite of a lot of vocal technically sound MSFT employees simply have given up trying to refute each and every anti-MSFT thing. But that doesn’t mean they all agree with that.
However i agree with the rest of your comments. There isn’t enough internet focus currently. I would think of 2 reason for that
1) Until very recently almost everyone inside MSFT didnt get online. They viewed it as a passing fad. The Netscape experience kept telling everyone that its a matter of time before MSFT wins again.
2) By the time ‘the online is future’ realization happened – VISTA was draining energies so that added to some more slowness. Think of all the screwups frmo MSFT in the last 18-24 months and see how you can trace the roots to VISTA for most of them.
But again, irrespective of the platform Microsoft hardly won anything with a ‘WOW’. It was just relentless pursuit and ‘Version 3’ softwares. I do see quite subtle changes that indicate the online is future realization inside the company. (Today Microsoft is announcing acquisition of a medical search company and its foray in to the healthcare verticals. As per the early reports it really looks like a service based approach)
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And her opinion matters, why?
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And her opinion matters, why?
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Smeagol: because Liz is an influential person in the world I live in.
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Smeagol: because Liz is an influential person in the world I live in.
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WhoKnew: what loans are you talking about? All of our Macintoshes are purchased. I purchased my own machines too.
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> When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects.
How do you grow when you have 95% market share? That’s true of PCs and Internet Explorer. And the only people that care about growth anyway are stock market analysts. Boring. I’m more interested in making better use of what we already have.
> Things that are different today than yesterday.
No shortage of new stuff coming out of Redmond. Good lord– Windows, Vista, Office 12, the whole VS 2005 stack and the out-of-band additions like ATLAS, .NET 3.0, WPF (reinventing the GUI on Windows) and so forth. It’ll take a DECADE to absorb it all.
> Or things that’ll get developers to switch from Google, or Adobe, or Apple and toward Microsoft stuff (or vice versa).
I’ve used Google to search since 2000. I doubt that will ever change. I’ve used a Windows OS since 1993. Ditto.
Why is this a zero-sum game? Why does growth of one have to come at the expense of the other? Google is an advertising company. Microsoft isn’t. And frankly, the all-advertising-all-the-time future predicted by Google’s business model scares me a lot more than anything else:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000772.html
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WhoKnew: what loans are you talking about? All of our Macintoshes are purchased. I purchased my own machines too.
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> When I say “relevant” or “interesting” I’m looking for growth prospects.
How do you grow when you have 95% market share? That’s true of PCs and Internet Explorer. And the only people that care about growth anyway are stock market analysts. Boring. I’m more interested in making better use of what we already have.
> Things that are different today than yesterday.
No shortage of new stuff coming out of Redmond. Good lord– Windows, Vista, Office 12, the whole VS 2005 stack and the out-of-band additions like ATLAS, .NET 3.0, WPF (reinventing the GUI on Windows) and so forth. It’ll take a DECADE to absorb it all.
> Or things that’ll get developers to switch from Google, or Adobe, or Apple and toward Microsoft stuff (or vice versa).
I’ve used Google to search since 2000. I doubt that will ever change. I’ve used a Windows OS since 1993. Ditto.
Why is this a zero-sum game? Why does growth of one have to come at the expense of the other? Google is an advertising company. Microsoft isn’t. And frankly, the all-advertising-all-the-time future predicted by Google’s business model scares me a lot more than anything else:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000772.html
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Blogger: interesting that your IP address shows you working at Microsoft. Why don’t you just be honest about what and who you are?
Jeff: Microsoft +is+ an advertising company. Billions of dollars of its revenue come from advertising (and, Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s President, told my group back when I still worked at Microsoft, that most of its growth would come from advertising. So, he clearly is very focused on the advertising world).
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Blogger: interesting that your IP address shows you working at Microsoft. Why don’t you just be honest about what and who you are?
Jeff: Microsoft +is+ an advertising company. Billions of dollars of its revenue come from advertising (and, Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s President, told my group back when I still worked at Microsoft, that most of its growth would come from advertising. So, he clearly is very focused on the advertising world).
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Hailsky: Vista has better networking, better audio, better UI, better search, better game APIs, better .NET runtimes, better Tablet PC and handwriting, better media center stuff, better speech APIs and apps, and a lot more that’s better about it when compared to XP. How can you still be excited by XP?
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Hailsky: Vista has better networking, better audio, better UI, better search, better game APIs, better .NET runtimes, better Tablet PC and handwriting, better media center stuff, better speech APIs and apps, and a lot more that’s better about it when compared to XP. How can you still be excited by XP?
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Jeff: >>How do you grow when you have 95% market share? That’s true of PCs and Internet Explorer.
PC market share has been going down quite a bit lately. I believe Apple’s latest share is about 10%. Internet Explorer’s share, on most blogs, is less than 50% now.
So, you’ve EXACTLY demonstrated my point: people are moving away from Microsoft. Certainly not a good equation for growth.
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Jeff: >>How do you grow when you have 95% market share? That’s true of PCs and Internet Explorer.
PC market share has been going down quite a bit lately. I believe Apple’s latest share is about 10%. Internet Explorer’s share, on most blogs, is less than 50% now.
So, you’ve EXACTLY demonstrated my point: people are moving away from Microsoft. Certainly not a good equation for growth.
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THE coolest thing:
go to http://wls.live.com
it works on wm5 and wm6 and JME
start the search app, do choose a new location, choose from contacts, go to a random contact in your contact list,
enter starbucks in the field for what’s your looking for and there you go.
it also provides traffic info, direction info and it works with your GPS in your phone (if you have one)
truely amazing……
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THE coolest thing:
go to http://wls.live.com
it works on wm5 and wm6 and JME
start the search app, do choose a new location, choose from contacts, go to a random contact in your contact list,
enter starbucks in the field for what’s your looking for and there you go.
it also provides traffic info, direction info and it works with your GPS in your phone (if you have one)
truely amazing……
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@25, Yes i work at microsoft. I don’t hide that. In fact i thought it was fairly obvious from my comments that i work for Microsoft. Besides, Even if i were to tell my name you wouldn’t recognize me.
(I don’t think i have enough interesting things to say yet to have an active blog and establish an online profile.)
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@25, Yes i work at microsoft. I don’t hide that. In fact i thought it was fairly obvious from my comments that i work for Microsoft. Besides, Even if i were to tell my name you wouldn’t recognize me.
(I don’t think i have enough interesting things to say yet to have an active blog and establish an online profile.)
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as a developer that uses asp.net 2.0 every day I have to say I love it. The more you scratch the surface of it the more cool things you find.
When creating content driven sites I would say you can get a lot more done in visual studio 2005 quicker than any lamp toolset.
I think Microsoft need to rethink their websites. Their online office live suite is crap and way to expensive for what it is. With the power of ajax.net and .net 3.0 they should be able to offer a much better feature rich online office version that would kick googles ass!
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as a developer that uses asp.net 2.0 every day I have to say I love it. The more you scratch the surface of it the more cool things you find.
When creating content driven sites I would say you can get a lot more done in visual studio 2005 quicker than any lamp toolset.
I think Microsoft need to rethink their websites. Their online office live suite is crap and way to expensive for what it is. With the power of ajax.net and .net 3.0 they should be able to offer a much better feature rich online office version that would kick googles ass!
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Jeff@24 said “ATLAS, .NET 3.0, WPF (reinventing the GUI on Windows) and so forth. It’ll take a DECADE to absorb it all.”
It’ll also probably take a decade for Microsoft to finish WPF. Rushed out of the door with 3.0 in order to meet the artifical Vista deadline – and quite possibly over-engineered (it’s Microsoft, I wish I could expect different). Working on the Microsoft platform has gone harder, not easier in the past couple of years. For those of us in small companies trying to keep up with all of that output is a full-time job in itself.
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Jeff@24 said “ATLAS, .NET 3.0, WPF (reinventing the GUI on Windows) and so forth. It’ll take a DECADE to absorb it all.”
It’ll also probably take a decade for Microsoft to finish WPF. Rushed out of the door with 3.0 in order to meet the artifical Vista deadline – and quite possibly over-engineered (it’s Microsoft, I wish I could expect different). Working on the Microsoft platform has gone harder, not easier in the past couple of years. For those of us in small companies trying to keep up with all of that output is a full-time job in itself.
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We all love XBox.
except for Xbox360 families. They love 360’s.
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We all love XBox.
except for Xbox360 families. They love 360’s.
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vista infrastructure for video editing
Oh it’s very functional, Adobe, Grass Valley, Discreet (AutoDesk), the Avid family, Pinnacle, Sony Vegas, and getting a hecko-kick outta the new SpeedEdit. The fact that some people go Final Cutty, doesn’t cancel out the Windows (and now Vista) infrastructure. And then all the Intelified Workstations, i.e. 3DBOXX RTX and the hybrid stuff like the Casablanca Liberty and capturey stuff like Matrox RT.X2. It could well be argued that the Windows infrastructure is FAR more mature and developed. But Mac is finally expanding outside of the Final Cut only mode, Avid and others tossing hats in ring. So Mac or PC, doesn’t much matter. The tools really aren’t the focus, that’s all pointless shop talk, the outputted content is the key. But saying Vista isn’t up to video editing tasks is just playing politics.
PS – The only beef I have with “Macs”, has zero to do with Apple, it’s Sony, in refusing to make Vegas avail. on OSX.
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vista infrastructure for video editing
Oh it’s very functional, Adobe, Grass Valley, Discreet (AutoDesk), the Avid family, Pinnacle, Sony Vegas, and getting a hecko-kick outta the new SpeedEdit. The fact that some people go Final Cutty, doesn’t cancel out the Windows (and now Vista) infrastructure. And then all the Intelified Workstations, i.e. 3DBOXX RTX and the hybrid stuff like the Casablanca Liberty and capturey stuff like Matrox RT.X2. It could well be argued that the Windows infrastructure is FAR more mature and developed. But Mac is finally expanding outside of the Final Cut only mode, Avid and others tossing hats in ring. So Mac or PC, doesn’t much matter. The tools really aren’t the focus, that’s all pointless shop talk, the outputted content is the key. But saying Vista isn’t up to video editing tasks is just playing politics.
PS – The only beef I have with “Macs”, has zero to do with Apple, it’s Sony, in refusing to make Vegas avail. on OSX.
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Robert, you are focusing too narrowly on blog writers/audience and companies who you interview as being representative of the entire industry. Your comment on the marketshares underscores that quite well.
Just because I don’t see people using products from company A, B, and C does not mean I am going to conclude that people are moving away from companies A, B, and C. My friends may be, but my friends are hardly representative of the rest of the world.
Cheers!
Kirupa
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Robert, you are focusing too narrowly on blog writers/audience and companies who you interview as being representative of the entire industry. Your comment on the marketshares underscores that quite well.
Just because I don’t see people using products from company A, B, and C does not mean I am going to conclude that people are moving away from companies A, B, and C. My friends may be, but my friends are hardly representative of the rest of the world.
Cheers!
Kirupa
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> So, you’ve EXACTLY demonstrated my point: people are moving away from Microsoft.
Have I? I think you demonstrated your point by making a completely unsupported statement. Or didn’t, rather.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
IE share is relatively stable, once you factor in IE7.
And absolutely Windows dominates. According to that OS stats on that same page, “The Windows family accounts for nearly 90%”.
Maybe not on the 37signals blog (duh). But outside the silicon valley startup bubble, computers are tools, not a fashion statement.
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> So, you’ve EXACTLY demonstrated my point: people are moving away from Microsoft.
Have I? I think you demonstrated your point by making a completely unsupported statement. Or didn’t, rather.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
IE share is relatively stable, once you factor in IE7.
And absolutely Windows dominates. According to that OS stats on that same page, “The Windows family accounts for nearly 90%”.
Maybe not on the 37signals blog (duh). But outside the silicon valley startup bubble, computers are tools, not a fashion statement.
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Microsoft has problems, but they’re standard big company problems. The battleship doesn’t turn fast enough.
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Microsoft has problems, but they’re standard big company problems. The battleship doesn’t turn fast enough.
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Robert, here’s your chance to hear Ray speak:
Q&A at Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium
Ray Ozzie will discuss Microsoft’s approach to software, services, and related topics on February 27 at 8:00 a.m. PT at the Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium in Las Vegas. Ray will participate in a Q&A session with Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund and take questions from the investor audience. The session will be audiocast live on Microsoft.com, where a replay and transcript will be available following the event.
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Robert, here’s your chance to hear Ray speak:
Q&A at Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium
Ray Ozzie will discuss Microsoft’s approach to software, services, and related topics on February 27 at 8:00 a.m. PT at the Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium in Las Vegas. Ray will participate in a Q&A session with Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund and take questions from the investor audience. The session will be audiocast live on Microsoft.com, where a replay and transcript will be available following the event.
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Jeff: I’ve met with more than 125 companies all around the world and these trends have nothing to do with Silicon Valley startup bubbles.
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Jeff: I’ve met with more than 125 companies all around the world and these trends have nothing to do with Silicon Valley startup bubbles.
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Kirupa: I’ve also met with CTOs of some very big companies and big compute organizations in the past few years. I don’t see any new love for Microsoft there, either. CERN, for instance, has one of the world’s largest computing grids being built and it’s non-Microsoft.
It’s interesting that the tactic used here is “attack the messenger” and not “put up some decent arguments.”
Darren: If Visual Studio is such a great tool how come almost none of the Office or Windows developers who work at Microsoft use it? If it’s so much more productive than other approaches, why doesn’t Microsoft ITSELF bet on that tool?
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Kirupa: I’ve also met with CTOs of some very big companies and big compute organizations in the past few years. I don’t see any new love for Microsoft there, either. CERN, for instance, has one of the world’s largest computing grids being built and it’s non-Microsoft.
It’s interesting that the tactic used here is “attack the messenger” and not “put up some decent arguments.”
Darren: If Visual Studio is such a great tool how come almost none of the Office or Windows developers who work at Microsoft use it? If it’s so much more productive than other approaches, why doesn’t Microsoft ITSELF bet on that tool?
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Jeff: regarding IE marketshare. It’s down to 70% based on that stat. On other stats I’ve seen it’s lower than 50%. You had the right number for 2003. IE used to own 95% of the marketshare. So, in three years Firefox has gotten about 30%. Translation: excitement! Wow!
Growth.
You nailed it. You just had two-year-old numbers. Notice which way the wind is blowing. That’s what I’m looking at.
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Jeff: regarding IE marketshare. It’s down to 70% based on that stat. On other stats I’ve seen it’s lower than 50%. You had the right number for 2003. IE used to own 95% of the marketshare. So, in three years Firefox has gotten about 30%. Translation: excitement! Wow!
Growth.
You nailed it. You just had two-year-old numbers. Notice which way the wind is blowing. That’s what I’m looking at.
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Chris: I use FinalCut Pro because that’s what the videobloggers I know, who I wanted to hire as editors (Ryanne and Jay) were familiar with and recommended. I used to edit Channel 9 in Windows Movie Maker. The quality I’m getting out of FinalCut is a lot better (due to better codecs more than anything) and FinalCut is a lot more flexible. But, you’re right. I could use Windows too. It’s just that the influencers in this world are heavily Mac, so I went with what they were using.
Fun thing about a Mac, though. It can also run Vista. 🙂
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Chris: I use FinalCut Pro because that’s what the videobloggers I know, who I wanted to hire as editors (Ryanne and Jay) were familiar with and recommended. I used to edit Channel 9 in Windows Movie Maker. The quality I’m getting out of FinalCut is a lot better (due to better codecs more than anything) and FinalCut is a lot more flexible. But, you’re right. I could use Windows too. It’s just that the influencers in this world are heavily Mac, so I went with what they were using.
Fun thing about a Mac, though. It can also run Vista. 🙂
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Marc: that sounds cool. I’ll have to try it out with my phone.
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Marc: that sounds cool. I’ll have to try it out with my phone.
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Browser share? What is this, 1998? Who gives a damn? Microsoft should drop IE altogether and bundle Firefox (instantly making it the number 1 attack target), because browser share is irrelevant.
Robert, your definition of “wow” is GoogleReader. Nobody I personally know gives a rip about it. It’s just one more web service. Useful, but not WOW by any stretch of the imagination, except for people that worship the WEB.
You know what really WOWs me? PodTech. /sarcasm
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Browser share? What is this, 1998? Who gives a damn? Microsoft should drop IE altogether and bundle Firefox (instantly making it the number 1 attack target), because browser share is irrelevant.
Robert, your definition of “wow” is GoogleReader. Nobody I personally know gives a rip about it. It’s just one more web service. Useful, but not WOW by any stretch of the imagination, except for people that worship the WEB.
You know what really WOWs me? PodTech. /sarcasm
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I forgot to add:
This blog entery is just one more exercise in your narcisism. Who cares what you hyped when? Your opinion is no better than anyone elses. This “a-list” crap is just an example of elitism taken to the extreme. Guess what – the “a-list” bloggers are only considered “a-list” by other “a-list” bloggers. Nobody else cares, nobody else regards your opinions as Gospel. Only the self-proclaimed “a-listers” think they know everything about everything. In truth, you “a-listers” know close to nothing about everything, but you speak within an echo-chamber with which you’ve deluded yourselves into thinking that you’re some kind of authorities or philosopher-kings regarding tech. You’re not.
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I forgot to add:
This blog entery is just one more exercise in your narcisism. Who cares what you hyped when? Your opinion is no better than anyone elses. This “a-list” crap is just an example of elitism taken to the extreme. Guess what – the “a-list” bloggers are only considered “a-list” by other “a-list” bloggers. Nobody else cares, nobody else regards your opinions as Gospel. Only the self-proclaimed “a-listers” think they know everything about everything. In truth, you “a-listers” know close to nothing about everything, but you speak within an echo-chamber with which you’ve deluded yourselves into thinking that you’re some kind of authorities or philosopher-kings regarding tech. You’re not.
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WOW. You are just like me! Check out my site, you’ll like it.
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WOW. You are just like me! Check out my site, you’ll like it.
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Robert, I know you’re not in the loop anymore being on the outside, but the next version of Office appears to have some cool stuff in it. I won’t go so far as to say “wow” because frankly the Vista ads have killed that word for me.
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Robert, I know you’re not in the loop anymore being on the outside, but the next version of Office appears to have some cool stuff in it. I won’t go so far as to say “wow” because frankly the Vista ads have killed that word for me.
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You know what’s making me say “Wow” about Microsoft today?
Their utterly asinine line of bullshit about virtualization, and their ridiculous “Oh, Virtualization is too new so we limit it to protect you”
Um…a sphincter says what? Virtualization is over ten years old on non-mainframes, FAR older on mainframes.
So it’s making me say “Wow” all right.
Followed by “What a bunch of dumbasses”
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You know what’s making me say “Wow” about Microsoft today?
Their utterly asinine line of bullshit about virtualization, and their ridiculous “Oh, Virtualization is too new so we limit it to protect you”
Um…a sphincter says what? Virtualization is over ten years old on non-mainframes, FAR older on mainframes.
So it’s making me say “Wow” all right.
Followed by “What a bunch of dumbasses”
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@44
Gee, Colby you’re reading his blog, you’re commenting (twice) on his blog… must be something here…
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@44
Gee, Colby you’re reading his blog, you’re commenting (twice) on his blog… must be something here…
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You know the sad part about this is that MS has always had contingents of people who want to buy into standards, who want to make things that work across platforms, who recognized the world was bigger. When I ran the Visual C++ business, we had one of the best Mac compilers in the business, and backends for all kinds of platforms. It got squished by the “if it ain’t proprietary, it’s wrong” crowd. Bummer.
MS still makes some of the best dev tools around, for their platform, with one of the smartest teams in the compiler game. Too bad they only work on the one architecture.
Oh and Robert, *everyone* at MS uses the Visual Studio compiler (to my knowledge), some use the VS editors, but you are right, virtually none use it as a “suite”. Their build teams all use the command line tools to build their products every night.
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You know the sad part about this is that MS has always had contingents of people who want to buy into standards, who want to make things that work across platforms, who recognized the world was bigger. When I ran the Visual C++ business, we had one of the best Mac compilers in the business, and backends for all kinds of platforms. It got squished by the “if it ain’t proprietary, it’s wrong” crowd. Bummer.
MS still makes some of the best dev tools around, for their platform, with one of the smartest teams in the compiler game. Too bad they only work on the one architecture.
Oh and Robert, *everyone* at MS uses the Visual Studio compiler (to my knowledge), some use the VS editors, but you are right, virtually none use it as a “suite”. Their build teams all use the command line tools to build their products every night.
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Robert, what do most MS developers use to develope software? I figured since they use MSBuild and that they were once touting XP being compiled with the MS C++ compiler’s anti-buffer-overrun flag, and that it would be free (not to mention one of the few .Net IDEs, although only a portion of MS apps are written in .Net), VS.Net would be the MS compiler of choice. I know 2005 was pretty unstable preSP1, even though the functional portions of the IDE (and the 2.0 release of .Net in particular) are very good, so I’m curious what would drive MS en masse away from the de facto tool for writing Windows apps.
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Robert, what do most MS developers use to develope software? I figured since they use MSBuild and that they were once touting XP being compiled with the MS C++ compiler’s anti-buffer-overrun flag, and that it would be free (not to mention one of the few .Net IDEs, although only a portion of MS apps are written in .Net), VS.Net would be the MS compiler of choice. I know 2005 was pretty unstable preSP1, even though the functional portions of the IDE (and the 2.0 release of .Net in particular) are very good, so I’m curious what would drive MS en masse away from the de facto tool for writing Windows apps.
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Robert@25, you released blogger@wordpress personal information (his/her IP address) which is only available to you and he/she did not explictly want to make it public.
You also collect email address from every commentator on your blog. Such as my email address. This is purely for your information and in a normal case you should not release it for public consumption.
Of course, I understand that your blog is provided as is with no guarantee of any kind including any privacy expectation. But why break somebody’s trust for no reason? Eventually it may decrease readers’ trust in you too:-)
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Robert@25, you released blogger@wordpress personal information (his/her IP address) which is only available to you and he/she did not explictly want to make it public.
You also collect email address from every commentator on your blog. Such as my email address. This is purely for your information and in a normal case you should not release it for public consumption.
Of course, I understand that your blog is provided as is with no guarantee of any kind including any privacy expectation. But why break somebody’s trust for no reason? Eventually it may decrease readers’ trust in you too:-)
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Kamal: good point. You should be aware that I can see the IP address you post from. Just like every WordPress.com blogger can. That can’t be considered private information and if someone has an expectation of such, then they simply don’t understand how the Internet works.
As to email addresses. I can see those, but only for current posts. I don’t collect them.
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Kamal: good point. You should be aware that I can see the IP address you post from. Just like every WordPress.com blogger can. That can’t be considered private information and if someone has an expectation of such, then they simply don’t understand how the Internet works.
As to email addresses. I can see those, but only for current posts. I don’t collect them.
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Keith: Visual Studio shares the same compiler that they use on Windows, but when I think of Visual Studio I’m thinking of the IDE, not just the compiler.
Most devs I met at Microsoft use command-line tools.
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Keith: Visual Studio shares the same compiler that they use on Windows, but when I think of Visual Studio I’m thinking of the IDE, not just the compiler.
Most devs I met at Microsoft use command-line tools.
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#43: you should have seen all the bloggers posting how many more feed readers all of a sudden showed up when Google Reader reported how many subscribers it had. TechCrunch alone went up about 100,000 readers, so SOMEONE is using Google Reader.
#44: of course you’re right. Instead we’re all listening to you and your wonderful insights about the tech industry. Where’s your blog again?
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#43: you should have seen all the bloggers posting how many more feed readers all of a sudden showed up when Google Reader reported how many subscribers it had. TechCrunch alone went up about 100,000 readers, so SOMEONE is using Google Reader.
#44: of course you’re right. Instead we’re all listening to you and your wonderful insights about the tech industry. Where’s your blog again?
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Sure, there is no expectation of private information. But for whatever reason blogger@wordpress did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship with Microsoft. (Which I personally do not think is a right thing to do, but that’s his/her choice to make, whether to reveal his/her Microsoft relationship or not.)
Just in case, if it is too long ago I wrote my own identity here. I am a senior researcher in the Theory group at Microsoft Research Center in Redmond. My email address is first name, last initial at microsoft.
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Sure, there is no expectation of private information. But for whatever reason blogger@wordpress did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship with Microsoft. (Which I personally do not think is a right thing to do, but that’s his/her choice to make, whether to reveal his/her Microsoft relationship or not.)
Just in case, if it is too long ago I wrote my own identity here. I am a senior researcher in the Theory group at Microsoft Research Center in Redmond. My email address is first name, last initial at microsoft.
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Sure, there is no expectation of private information. But for whatever reason blogger@wordpress did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship with Microsoft. (Which I personally do not think is a right thing to do, but that’s his/her choice to make, whether to reveal his/her Microsoft relationship or not.)
Just in case, if it is too long ago I wrote my own identity here. I am a senior researcher in the Theory group at Microsoft Research Center in Redmond. My email address is first name, last initial at microsoft.
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Kamal: I hate anonymity. Anyone posting here knows that. Also, anyone smart will know that your IP address is being reported to the site’s owner. I assume Microsoft hires smart people. Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.
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Kamal: I hate anonymity. Anyone posting here knows that. Also, anyone smart will know that your IP address is being reported to the site’s owner. I assume Microsoft hires smart people. Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.
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Kamal: I hate anonymity. Anyone posting here knows that. Also, anyone smart will know that your IP address is being reported to the site’s owner. I assume Microsoft hires smart people. Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.
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“did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship”
I don’t get this. It’s not like i lied about where i work. Nor did i claim i didn’t have any relationship with Microsoft. Also I have not used or misused the anonymity ever.
This topic simply didn’t come up at all. The first time it came up was in this comment stream – I responded with a straight answer.
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“did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship”
I don’t get this. It’s not like i lied about where i work. Nor did i claim i didn’t have any relationship with Microsoft. Also I have not used or misused the anonymity ever.
This topic simply didn’t come up at all. The first time it came up was in this comment stream – I responded with a straight answer.
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“did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship”
I don’t get this. It’s not like i lied about where i work. Nor did i claim i didn’t have any relationship with Microsoft. Also I have not used or misused the anonymity ever.
This topic simply didn’t come up at all. The first time it came up was in this comment stream – I responded with a straight answer.
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“Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.”
I didn’t.
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“Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.”
I didn’t.
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“Therefore blogger@wordpress.com shouldn’t have expected that to remain private.”
I didn’t.
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its good jadan from joshua R
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its good jadan from joshua R
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its good jadan from joshua R
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Here is my Wow list from Microsoft
I like the Windows Live for mobile over google offering
Windows Live Mail Desktop (lets me add Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo in a single client)
I like the new UI of Windows Live Mail (I not sure whether you have used it, specially it lets you change the themes on fly)
I like the Photosynth technology
I like the new redesign UI of Microsoft Office 2007 (especially the part that I can blog from Microsoft Word in Office 2007)
I like the Windows Live for TV Beta
I like WPF/E and like the fact that it can run on my Macbook pro
I like beta of Windows Home Server (I think it will be a cool technology, It is coming this year)
I like the fact that I will be able to play with Xbox Live games on Vista
I like Hallo 3 Beta, It rocks
UniveRSS – a 3D Vista RSS reader
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Here is my Wow list from Microsoft
I like the Windows Live for mobile over google offering
Windows Live Mail Desktop (lets me add Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo in a single client)
I like the new UI of Windows Live Mail (I not sure whether you have used it, specially it lets you change the themes on fly)
I like the Photosynth technology
I like the new redesign UI of Microsoft Office 2007 (especially the part that I can blog from Microsoft Word in Office 2007)
I like the Windows Live for TV Beta
I like WPF/E and like the fact that it can run on my Macbook pro
I like beta of Windows Home Server (I think it will be a cool technology, It is coming this year)
I like the fact that I will be able to play with Xbox Live games on Vista
I like Hallo 3 Beta, It rocks
UniveRSS – a 3D Vista RSS reader
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Here is my Wow list from Microsoft
I like the Windows Live for mobile over google offering
Windows Live Mail Desktop (lets me add Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo in a single client)
I like the new UI of Windows Live Mail (I not sure whether you have used it, specially it lets you change the themes on fly)
I like the Photosynth technology
I like the new redesign UI of Microsoft Office 2007 (especially the part that I can blog from Microsoft Word in Office 2007)
I like the Windows Live for TV Beta
I like WPF/E and like the fact that it can run on my Macbook pro
I like beta of Windows Home Server (I think it will be a cool technology, It is coming this year)
I like the fact that I will be able to play with Xbox Live games on Vista
I like Hallo 3 Beta, It rocks
UniveRSS – a 3D Vista RSS reader
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> So, in three years Firefox has gotten about 30%. Translation: excitement! Wow!
You’ll get no argument from me on that. I think browser competition, and competition in general, is clearly a good thing. Even if it’s basic Coke/Pepsi (or AMD/Intel). Without competitors beating down Microsoft’s door, we’d hardly get any new products at all from MS. Why do you think we had to wait so long for IE7?
But at the same time, without 95% market penetration fo IE, the XMLHttpRequest that IE pioneered (and is the backbone of AJAX and Web 2.0) wouldn’t have reached mainstream status. The domination of IE6 finally killed off the legacy Netscape 4.7x codebase that was stifling innovation.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000606.html
But more importantly– and this was my point– 90% of people use Windows, whether they run Firefox or IE (most Mac users run Safari). I guess the personal visits you made to 125 companies “all over the world” are somehow more representative than the w3schools stats? Where are all the people jumping ship from Windows, exactly?
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
At current rates, Linux gains 0.2 percent market share per year, and Mac gains about 0.4 percent per year (although Mac was flat for 2006).
Also, what’s up with all the vitriol in your comments, half of it dealt out by you? The signal to noise ratio out of hand here. You seem angry.
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> So, in three years Firefox has gotten about 30%. Translation: excitement! Wow!
You’ll get no argument from me on that. I think browser competition, and competition in general, is clearly a good thing. Even if it’s basic Coke/Pepsi (or AMD/Intel). Without competitors beating down Microsoft’s door, we’d hardly get any new products at all from MS. Why do you think we had to wait so long for IE7?
But at the same time, without 95% market penetration fo IE, the XMLHttpRequest that IE pioneered (and is the backbone of AJAX and Web 2.0) wouldn’t have reached mainstream status. The domination of IE6 finally killed off the legacy Netscape 4.7x codebase that was stifling innovation.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000606.html
But more importantly– and this was my point– 90% of people use Windows, whether they run Firefox or IE (most Mac users run Safari). I guess the personal visits you made to 125 companies “all over the world” are somehow more representative than the w3schools stats? Where are all the people jumping ship from Windows, exactly?
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
At current rates, Linux gains 0.2 percent market share per year, and Mac gains about 0.4 percent per year (although Mac was flat for 2006).
Also, what’s up with all the vitriol in your comments, half of it dealt out by you? The signal to noise ratio out of hand here. You seem angry.
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> So, in three years Firefox has gotten about 30%. Translation: excitement! Wow!
You’ll get no argument from me on that. I think browser competition, and competition in general, is clearly a good thing. Even if it’s basic Coke/Pepsi (or AMD/Intel). Without competitors beating down Microsoft’s door, we’d hardly get any new products at all from MS. Why do you think we had to wait so long for IE7?
But at the same time, without 95% market penetration fo IE, the XMLHttpRequest that IE pioneered (and is the backbone of AJAX and Web 2.0) wouldn’t have reached mainstream status. The domination of IE6 finally killed off the legacy Netscape 4.7x codebase that was stifling innovation.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000606.html
But more importantly– and this was my point– 90% of people use Windows, whether they run Firefox or IE (most Mac users run Safari). I guess the personal visits you made to 125 companies “all over the world” are somehow more representative than the w3schools stats? Where are all the people jumping ship from Windows, exactly?
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
At current rates, Linux gains 0.2 percent market share per year, and Mac gains about 0.4 percent per year (although Mac was flat for 2006).
Also, what’s up with all the vitriol in your comments, half of it dealt out by you? The signal to noise ratio out of hand here. You seem angry.
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Jeff: huh? I just went back and looked at my last five comments. I can’t see any anger. Do you project this on anyone who tries to have a debate with you?
Actually, Apple’s Mac market share went up a few percent in last quarter to a little more than 6%, according to articles I just found via Google. But, point taken.
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Jeff: huh? I just went back and looked at my last five comments. I can’t see any anger. Do you project this on anyone who tries to have a debate with you?
Actually, Apple’s Mac market share went up a few percent in last quarter to a little more than 6%, according to articles I just found via Google. But, point taken.
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Jeff: huh? I just went back and looked at my last five comments. I can’t see any anger. Do you project this on anyone who tries to have a debate with you?
Actually, Apple’s Mac market share went up a few percent in last quarter to a little more than 6%, according to articles I just found via Google. But, point taken.
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As it seems a lot of responses are from Microsoft, I guess Robert you hit a nerve. What most however fail to grasp is the inertia in the market with regards to the fields Microsoft is moving in or trying to catch up.
For instance getting web developers to move away from photoshop/dreamweaver/txt-editor will cost an enormous effort. Basically because it’s trying to solve a non issue for most web-developers.
Luring away developers from OpenLazlo/Flex/Eclipse into Visual Studio which imho is only trying to get you into the Microsoft Environment doesn’t make any sense. It will only add costs to the infrastructure which for most startups is just a no no.
Make it possible to develop WPF/E applications on Eclipse and make it possible to deploy it to an Apache infrastructure and you could get traction within the startups of the future.
But currently most are using Ruby on Rails, Python and flash (Flex/OpenLazlo) to get stuff done….
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As it seems a lot of responses are from Microsoft, I guess Robert you hit a nerve. What most however fail to grasp is the inertia in the market with regards to the fields Microsoft is moving in or trying to catch up.
For instance getting web developers to move away from photoshop/dreamweaver/txt-editor will cost an enormous effort. Basically because it’s trying to solve a non issue for most web-developers.
Luring away developers from OpenLazlo/Flex/Eclipse into Visual Studio which imho is only trying to get you into the Microsoft Environment doesn’t make any sense. It will only add costs to the infrastructure which for most startups is just a no no.
Make it possible to develop WPF/E applications on Eclipse and make it possible to deploy it to an Apache infrastructure and you could get traction within the startups of the future.
But currently most are using Ruby on Rails, Python and flash (Flex/OpenLazlo) to get stuff done….
LikeLike
As it seems a lot of responses are from Microsoft, I guess Robert you hit a nerve. What most however fail to grasp is the inertia in the market with regards to the fields Microsoft is moving in or trying to catch up.
For instance getting web developers to move away from photoshop/dreamweaver/txt-editor will cost an enormous effort. Basically because it’s trying to solve a non issue for most web-developers.
Luring away developers from OpenLazlo/Flex/Eclipse into Visual Studio which imho is only trying to get you into the Microsoft Environment doesn’t make any sense. It will only add costs to the infrastructure which for most startups is just a no no.
Make it possible to develop WPF/E applications on Eclipse and make it possible to deploy it to an Apache infrastructure and you could get traction within the startups of the future.
But currently most are using Ruby on Rails, Python and flash (Flex/OpenLazlo) to get stuff done….
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Robert – there are times when I look at Techmeme and say “Hmm..why aren’t these people talking about our stuff?”. But that changed quickly when I had to call home to talk to my mom and my sister – both of them are not computer enthusiasts and can barely use the computer at home. But they both asked me about this new Windows Vista thing and said that it seemed very nice from the ads and asked me (since I’m a MSFT employee) whether I should buy it.
Similarly, I was at a restaurant recently and the head waiter spotted my blue badge. He came over to me and proudly showed me how they were using Windows XP for their billing. He also ensured that I got good tables ever after.:)
I could go on..but you get the idea. Robert – I’m a bit tired of this talk of ‘influentials’. Yes, I would love it Mike Arrington were to link to our products every day. But the truth is, there are millions and millions of other people out there. People like my mom and sis. Uncles, aunts, lawyers, teachers,etc. All these folks still love and trust Windows. You just don’t see them posting to Digg about it. 🙂
This is not a corporate cheer-leading ra-ra comment. Do we have challenges? Damn right we do. But you just can’t count out a company which 700 million people use to run their computers and their lives.
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Robert – there are times when I look at Techmeme and say “Hmm..why aren’t these people talking about our stuff?”. But that changed quickly when I had to call home to talk to my mom and my sister – both of them are not computer enthusiasts and can barely use the computer at home. But they both asked me about this new Windows Vista thing and said that it seemed very nice from the ads and asked me (since I’m a MSFT employee) whether I should buy it.
Similarly, I was at a restaurant recently and the head waiter spotted my blue badge. He came over to me and proudly showed me how they were using Windows XP for their billing. He also ensured that I got good tables ever after.:)
I could go on..but you get the idea. Robert – I’m a bit tired of this talk of ‘influentials’. Yes, I would love it Mike Arrington were to link to our products every day. But the truth is, there are millions and millions of other people out there. People like my mom and sis. Uncles, aunts, lawyers, teachers,etc. All these folks still love and trust Windows. You just don’t see them posting to Digg about it. 🙂
This is not a corporate cheer-leading ra-ra comment. Do we have challenges? Damn right we do. But you just can’t count out a company which 700 million people use to run their computers and their lives.
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Robert – there are times when I look at Techmeme and say “Hmm..why aren’t these people talking about our stuff?”. But that changed quickly when I had to call home to talk to my mom and my sister – both of them are not computer enthusiasts and can barely use the computer at home. But they both asked me about this new Windows Vista thing and said that it seemed very nice from the ads and asked me (since I’m a MSFT employee) whether I should buy it.
Similarly, I was at a restaurant recently and the head waiter spotted my blue badge. He came over to me and proudly showed me how they were using Windows XP for their billing. He also ensured that I got good tables ever after.:)
I could go on..but you get the idea. Robert – I’m a bit tired of this talk of ‘influentials’. Yes, I would love it Mike Arrington were to link to our products every day. But the truth is, there are millions and millions of other people out there. People like my mom and sis. Uncles, aunts, lawyers, teachers,etc. All these folks still love and trust Windows. You just don’t see them posting to Digg about it. 🙂
This is not a corporate cheer-leading ra-ra comment. Do we have challenges? Damn right we do. But you just can’t count out a company which 700 million people use to run their computers and their lives.
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Ms. Dewey isn’t wow? Not only is it a good skin on Live Search, but it’s some good skin on search…if you know what I mean. She’s HOT. And the script is inventive and edgy.
And yes…you may not see the vitriol, but I see it as well, it bleeds through in your comments. You may not like anonymous comments (like mine), but you do have them turned on. Very disengenuous of you to then “out” the anon posters at your whim.
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Ms. Dewey isn’t wow? Not only is it a good skin on Live Search, but it’s some good skin on search…if you know what I mean. She’s HOT. And the script is inventive and edgy.
And yes…you may not see the vitriol, but I see it as well, it bleeds through in your comments. You may not like anonymous comments (like mine), but you do have them turned on. Very disengenuous of you to then “out” the anon posters at your whim.
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Ms. Dewey isn’t wow? Not only is it a good skin on Live Search, but it’s some good skin on search…if you know what I mean. She’s HOT. And the script is inventive and edgy.
And yes…you may not see the vitriol, but I see it as well, it bleeds through in your comments. You may not like anonymous comments (like mine), but you do have them turned on. Very disengenuous of you to then “out” the anon posters at your whim.
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John: if you think Ms. Dewey is “wow” then I have to wonder what Merlot are you drinking because obviously I need some of that!
Sriram: good points. Vista ads are plastered all over San Francisco. They aren’t as cool as the iPod ads, but at least they are there. I remember asking the marketing department to do advertising like that and getting blank stares for a long time. So, kudos!
But, now, why isn’t Vista sales meeting expectations? Ballmer is going around calming everyone down cause he knows that sales aren’t very hot.
Hint: normal people don’t upgrade: geeks do. We don’t see the need.
This is the problem. Ads don’t do the trick for us.
Also, you’re confusing your influentials. Mike Arrington is influential in Web 2.0 stuff. You’d be better off talking with Chris Pirillo, or John Markoff or Steven Levy or Leo Laporte about operating systems (or, about 100 people who are similar). Those are the guys that lots of people listen to.
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John: if you think Ms. Dewey is “wow” then I have to wonder what Merlot are you drinking because obviously I need some of that!
Sriram: good points. Vista ads are plastered all over San Francisco. They aren’t as cool as the iPod ads, but at least they are there. I remember asking the marketing department to do advertising like that and getting blank stares for a long time. So, kudos!
But, now, why isn’t Vista sales meeting expectations? Ballmer is going around calming everyone down cause he knows that sales aren’t very hot.
Hint: normal people don’t upgrade: geeks do. We don’t see the need.
This is the problem. Ads don’t do the trick for us.
Also, you’re confusing your influentials. Mike Arrington is influential in Web 2.0 stuff. You’d be better off talking with Chris Pirillo, or John Markoff or Steven Levy or Leo Laporte about operating systems (or, about 100 people who are similar). Those are the guys that lots of people listen to.
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John: if you think Ms. Dewey is “wow” then I have to wonder what Merlot are you drinking because obviously I need some of that!
Sriram: good points. Vista ads are plastered all over San Francisco. They aren’t as cool as the iPod ads, but at least they are there. I remember asking the marketing department to do advertising like that and getting blank stares for a long time. So, kudos!
But, now, why isn’t Vista sales meeting expectations? Ballmer is going around calming everyone down cause he knows that sales aren’t very hot.
Hint: normal people don’t upgrade: geeks do. We don’t see the need.
This is the problem. Ads don’t do the trick for us.
Also, you’re confusing your influentials. Mike Arrington is influential in Web 2.0 stuff. You’d be better off talking with Chris Pirillo, or John Markoff or Steven Levy or Leo Laporte about operating systems (or, about 100 people who are similar). Those are the guys that lots of people listen to.
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John: even better. Ms. Dewey is done in Flash! http://www.msdewey.com/
So, even Microsoft’s own developers like Flash better than .NET 3.0 for client-side stuff.
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John: even better. Ms. Dewey is done in Flash! http://www.msdewey.com/
So, even Microsoft’s own developers like Flash better than .NET 3.0 for client-side stuff.
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John: even better. Ms. Dewey is done in Flash! http://www.msdewey.com/
So, even Microsoft’s own developers like Flash better than .NET 3.0 for client-side stuff.
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Dewey in Flash? Who cares? If you’re defining “wow” in terms of growth (see 27 and 40) then MSFT is obviously doing what it needs to see growth through using another tool for the job. Who the f–k cares what it was created in. That was done on a shoestring budget under the radar, obviously some dev had an affinity with another tool. The “wow” isn’t about the hammer used to create the house, but about the end product.
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Dewey in Flash? Who cares? If you’re defining “wow” in terms of growth (see 27 and 40) then MSFT is obviously doing what it needs to see growth through using another tool for the job. Who the f–k cares what it was created in. That was done on a shoestring budget under the radar, obviously some dev had an affinity with another tool. The “wow” isn’t about the hammer used to create the house, but about the end product.
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Dewey in Flash? Who cares? If you’re defining “wow” in terms of growth (see 27 and 40) then MSFT is obviously doing what it needs to see growth through using another tool for the job. Who the f–k cares what it was created in. That was done on a shoestring budget under the radar, obviously some dev had an affinity with another tool. The “wow” isn’t about the hammer used to create the house, but about the end product.
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John: because my original point last week that led to the development of this post here was that developers are moving away from Microsoft technologies on the Internet.
Shoestring budget? Really? I didn’t know you could hire an actress and put together something this cool on a shoestring. I heard the actress on CNBC who did this the other day and it didn’t sound like a skunkworks project. Where did you hear that?
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John: because my original point last week that led to the development of this post here was that developers are moving away from Microsoft technologies on the Internet.
Shoestring budget? Really? I didn’t know you could hire an actress and put together something this cool on a shoestring. I heard the actress on CNBC who did this the other day and it didn’t sound like a skunkworks project. Where did you hear that?
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The Product Manager who did Ms. Dewey was interviewed on NPR and talked about how he did it (i.e. without LCA approval). I say “shoestring” for MSFT, but still small. MUCH less than you’d think for a MSFT marketing project. Couple dozen g’s. I didn’t say skunkworks…I said shoestring. I work with actresses all the time, you can absolutely hire someone to do voice and video shorts for a couple 10 grand.
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The Product Manager who did Ms. Dewey was interviewed on NPR and talked about how he did it (i.e. without LCA approval). I say “shoestring” for MSFT, but still small. MUCH less than you’d think for a MSFT marketing project. Couple dozen g’s. I didn’t say skunkworks…I said shoestring. I work with actresses all the time, you can absolutely hire someone to do voice and video shorts for a couple 10 grand.
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John, I took the bate. She looks Wow indeed, but i also decided to test her functionality (actually she’s now shouting “type something here”)
I decided on a small test to see whether she is wow as she seems to be a search portal. Around 2000 I was involved in building a search portal for a italian operator. Based upon natural language you would receive results f.i. give me the best hotel in rome (in Italian) would give you results and could connect you with the appropriate hotel when you decided so.
I tried this question: “What’s the best restaurant in Seatle” She responds with something about a celebrity strip show, nice but utterly useless information and the first result she shows is this site: http://strayfromtheheart.org/wordpress/?p=38
The result is useless, not even close to what i was looking and you call this wow????
If you where over here in the Netherlands I would ask you which coffeshop you’ve been to, because they’ve definitely have some very good shit there.
You would have wowed me when she would have responded in the likes of:
Well this is the best according to the critics, but according to the incrowd this would be the best place to go.
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John, I took the bate. She looks Wow indeed, but i also decided to test her functionality (actually she’s now shouting “type something here”)
I decided on a small test to see whether she is wow as she seems to be a search portal. Around 2000 I was involved in building a search portal for a italian operator. Based upon natural language you would receive results f.i. give me the best hotel in rome (in Italian) would give you results and could connect you with the appropriate hotel when you decided so.
I tried this question: “What’s the best restaurant in Seatle” She responds with something about a celebrity strip show, nice but utterly useless information and the first result she shows is this site: http://strayfromtheheart.org/wordpress/?p=38
The result is useless, not even close to what i was looking and you call this wow????
If you where over here in the Netherlands I would ask you which coffeshop you’ve been to, because they’ve definitely have some very good shit there.
You would have wowed me when she would have responded in the likes of:
Well this is the best according to the critics, but according to the incrowd this would be the best place to go.
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neverness: I agree with you. I just tried a few searches and definitely wasn’t “wow’ed.” And, if you think she’s good looking there’s a lot better looking women out there who won’t annoy you. Try Cali Lewis over at Geekbrief.tv, for instance.
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neverness: I agree with you. I just tried a few searches and definitely wasn’t “wow’ed.” And, if you think she’s good looking there’s a lot better looking women out there who won’t annoy you. Try Cali Lewis over at Geekbrief.tv, for instance.
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@71…
Just my point. On a shoestring budget you can’t cover every locale with the script nor can you cover every city. I actually don’t care that some of the monolog is inane. The search works (base on Live Search) and for instance even though they didn’t code for Spanish, I actually get good results when searching for things for my Latina wife.
The person in charge wants to cover more locales, but doesn’t have the budget now. My guess is that someone in Legal or management at MSFT got their hands on this and that’s where the innovation stops. A completely different issue altogether…see MiniMSFT.
For me…for my teenage sons…Ms. Dewey makes Search fun. Beats the pants off other interfaces I have seen and because it’s from MSFT I know I can trust it, in more ways than one.
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@71…
Just my point. On a shoestring budget you can’t cover every locale with the script nor can you cover every city. I actually don’t care that some of the monolog is inane. The search works (base on Live Search) and for instance even though they didn’t code for Spanish, I actually get good results when searching for things for my Latina wife.
The person in charge wants to cover more locales, but doesn’t have the budget now. My guess is that someone in Legal or management at MSFT got their hands on this and that’s where the innovation stops. A completely different issue altogether…see MiniMSFT.
For me…for my teenage sons…Ms. Dewey makes Search fun. Beats the pants off other interfaces I have seen and because it’s from MSFT I know I can trust it, in more ways than one.
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@71…
Just my point. On a shoestring budget you can’t cover every locale with the script nor can you cover every city. I actually don’t care that some of the monolog is inane. The search works (base on Live Search) and for instance even though they didn’t code for Spanish, I actually get good results when searching for things for my Latina wife.
The person in charge wants to cover more locales, but doesn’t have the budget now. My guess is that someone in Legal or management at MSFT got their hands on this and that’s where the innovation stops. A completely different issue altogether…see MiniMSFT.
For me…for my teenage sons…Ms. Dewey makes Search fun. Beats the pants off other interfaces I have seen and because it’s from MSFT I know I can trust it, in more ways than one.
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Scobble, everytime i wake up I see a hot good looking woman, she’s called my wife 😉
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@72…
Be honest Robert…you’re burning the bridge. Yes, I’m a softtie…not a big fan of the company more often than not, but your posts of late, while mostly on target (mostly) have been really disrespectful to the company that put you on the map.
Did someone diss you on an interview or charge you full price for your MSDN or something?
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@72…
Be honest Robert…you’re burning the bridge. Yes, I’m a softtie…not a big fan of the company more often than not, but your posts of late, while mostly on target (mostly) have been really disrespectful to the company that put you on the map.
Did someone diss you on an interview or charge you full price for your MSDN or something?
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@72…
Be honest Robert…you’re burning the bridge. Yes, I’m a softtie…not a big fan of the company more often than not, but your posts of late, while mostly on target (mostly) have been really disrespectful to the company that put you on the map.
Did someone diss you on an interview or charge you full price for your MSDN or something?
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Scobble, everytime i wake up I see a hot good looking woman, she’s called my wife 😉
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John: if this is what’s called “burning a bridge” then I don’t want it.
You missed that I told Bill Gates to split Microsoft up BEFORE I was a Microsoft employee. One thing I like about Microsoft is that they usually are pretty good about criticism.
If telling the world what developers are telling me in the street is going to burn a bridge, then so be it.
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John: if this is what’s called “burning a bridge” then I don’t want it.
You missed that I told Bill Gates to split Microsoft up BEFORE I was a Microsoft employee. One thing I like about Microsoft is that they usually are pretty good about criticism.
If telling the world what developers are telling me in the street is going to burn a bridge, then so be it.
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Well, for my part, I hope you’re not burning a bridge, but I think that you need to take a hard look at the tone of your posts and comments. I understand, sometime they come in too fast to really reflect. If Microsoft needs to do something to win you back over, they need to. If you need more visibility into some of the smaller pockets that are doing cool things, I’m sure they could use your help and visibility. But don’t write off the company that made you a much bigger person simply because you haven’t been able to hit every corner of the behemoth.
Also remember that you only hit a segment of the developer marketplace that focus on web delivery. I work and have worked with scores of companies in the enterprise business app space that are huge MSFT users. And these are those that deal with daily decisions about whether to use (or not) MSFT tools or someone else, not fan boys or MVPs, but real firms trying to meet a bottom line…and they do great things with MSFT technology.
As for splitting the company up…we’re all for it, us here down in the trenches. 🙂
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Well, for my part, I hope you’re not burning a bridge, but I think that you need to take a hard look at the tone of your posts and comments. I understand, sometime they come in too fast to really reflect. If Microsoft needs to do something to win you back over, they need to. If you need more visibility into some of the smaller pockets that are doing cool things, I’m sure they could use your help and visibility. But don’t write off the company that made you a much bigger person simply because you haven’t been able to hit every corner of the behemoth.
Also remember that you only hit a segment of the developer marketplace that focus on web delivery. I work and have worked with scores of companies in the enterprise business app space that are huge MSFT users. And these are those that deal with daily decisions about whether to use (or not) MSFT tools or someone else, not fan boys or MVPs, but real firms trying to meet a bottom line…and they do great things with MSFT technology.
As for splitting the company up…we’re all for it, us here down in the trenches. 🙂
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Well, for my part, I hope you’re not burning a bridge, but I think that you need to take a hard look at the tone of your posts and comments. I understand, sometime they come in too fast to really reflect. If Microsoft needs to do something to win you back over, they need to. If you need more visibility into some of the smaller pockets that are doing cool things, I’m sure they could use your help and visibility. But don’t write off the company that made you a much bigger person simply because you haven’t been able to hit every corner of the behemoth.
Also remember that you only hit a segment of the developer marketplace that focus on web delivery. I work and have worked with scores of companies in the enterprise business app space that are huge MSFT users. And these are those that deal with daily decisions about whether to use (or not) MSFT tools or someone else, not fan boys or MVPs, but real firms trying to meet a bottom line…and they do great things with MSFT technology.
As for splitting the company up…we’re all for it, us here down in the trenches. 🙂
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John: agreed.
But, regarding what’s hot. Don’t take my word for it. Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s President, says that Web delivery is where they are focusing. That’s why Microsoft is doing the Mix conference. I’ll be at the next one. It’ll be interesting to see what they show us because what they have been showing us has been falling flat.
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John: agreed.
But, regarding what’s hot. Don’t take my word for it. Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s President, says that Web delivery is where they are focusing. That’s why Microsoft is doing the Mix conference. I’ll be at the next one. It’ll be interesting to see what they show us because what they have been showing us has been falling flat.
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John: agreed.
But, regarding what’s hot. Don’t take my word for it. Kevin Johnson, Microsoft’s President, says that Web delivery is where they are focusing. That’s why Microsoft is doing the Mix conference. I’ll be at the next one. It’ll be interesting to see what they show us because what they have been showing us has been falling flat.
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On Scoble becoming defensive:
> It’s interesting that the tactic used here is “attack the messenger” and not “put up some decent arguments.”
Are you under attack? Granted, there are some jerks who post rude stuff here (and you absolutely have a right to ignore and delete their posts), but generalizing an discussion into “you guys are all out to get me” (p.s. your arguments suck) isn’t helpful, either.
> I’ve met with more than 125 companies all around the world and these trends have nothing to do with Silicon Valley startup bubbles.
Nothing screams “I’m important” quite like a man screaming “I’m important.”
> #44: of course you’re right. Instead we’re all listening to you and your wonderful insights about the tech industry. Where’s your blog again?
See above. Granted this guy was a jerk, but it’s better to ignore than stoop to their level.
> I’ve also met with CTOs of some very big companies and big compute organizations in the past few years. I don’t see any new love for Microsoft there, either.
I used to have a girlfriend who would condescendingly tell me that my opinion was invalid because I wasn’t privy to the same information she had. We’re no longer together. And I pity the poor man she’s married to now.
> Also, you’re confusing your influentials.
And you’re evidently the arbiter of all things influential as well. Why even bother asking us what we think when you already know the correct answer?
This isn’t a naked conversation. It’s you reflexively browbeating everyone into submission with your opinions.
For whatever reason, this is not the Scoble I remember. Maybe I’m remembering wrong. Maybe discussions here were always like this. But to me, you seem angrier and more defensive than I remember.
I love you anyway, but I’m just sayin’.
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On Scoble becoming defensive:
> It’s interesting that the tactic used here is “attack the messenger” and not “put up some decent arguments.”
Are you under attack? Granted, there are some jerks who post rude stuff here (and you absolutely have a right to ignore and delete their posts), but generalizing an discussion into “you guys are all out to get me” (p.s. your arguments suck) isn’t helpful, either.
> I’ve met with more than 125 companies all around the world and these trends have nothing to do with Silicon Valley startup bubbles.
Nothing screams “I’m important” quite like a man screaming “I’m important.”
> #44: of course you’re right. Instead we’re all listening to you and your wonderful insights about the tech industry. Where’s your blog again?
See above. Granted this guy was a jerk, but it’s better to ignore than stoop to their level.
> I’ve also met with CTOs of some very big companies and big compute organizations in the past few years. I don’t see any new love for Microsoft there, either.
I used to have a girlfriend who would condescendingly tell me that my opinion was invalid because I wasn’t privy to the same information she had. We’re no longer together. And I pity the poor man she’s married to now.
> Also, you’re confusing your influentials.
And you’re evidently the arbiter of all things influential as well. Why even bother asking us what we think when you already know the correct answer?
This isn’t a naked conversation. It’s you reflexively browbeating everyone into submission with your opinions.
For whatever reason, this is not the Scoble I remember. Maybe I’m remembering wrong. Maybe discussions here were always like this. But to me, you seem angrier and more defensive than I remember.
I love you anyway, but I’m just sayin’.
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IMHO…Kevin Johnson is a moron. Sorry to say it if you like him, but I never liked him when he was in charge of sales and don’t like him now. He lacks vision and spine for true innovation. He’s toeing the Ballmer line.
Web delivery is an infrastructure concern, but too many inside MSFT have adopted the mantra that web delivery == search revenue. Wrong and wrong.
I’m in the Office org and I can tell you that the groups doing some great new things (for the web even) haven’t even heard of or been invited to the Mix conference. You were in DPE…they’re connected well in some groups and not well in others…and they’re the ones driving Mix as well. I hear you on Ozzie’s silence, not much to say there…but even those of us in Office pretty much just plug along, we don’t care what he says…yet.
The companies that I work with, external partners, hundreds of them in the enterprise space…are still looking at rich client delivery, for a number of reasons, not the LEAST of which is the fact that large enterprises have yet to really jump into the web…and that will take years. In the meantime they’re doing fantastic things with Office, and WPF and BizTalk and SQL Server and BI….amazing things really. Not really your bailiwick…I get that, but don’t also discount it.
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IMHO…Kevin Johnson is a moron. Sorry to say it if you like him, but I never liked him when he was in charge of sales and don’t like him now. He lacks vision and spine for true innovation. He’s toeing the Ballmer line.
Web delivery is an infrastructure concern, but too many inside MSFT have adopted the mantra that web delivery == search revenue. Wrong and wrong.
I’m in the Office org and I can tell you that the groups doing some great new things (for the web even) haven’t even heard of or been invited to the Mix conference. You were in DPE…they’re connected well in some groups and not well in others…and they’re the ones driving Mix as well. I hear you on Ozzie’s silence, not much to say there…but even those of us in Office pretty much just plug along, we don’t care what he says…yet.
The companies that I work with, external partners, hundreds of them in the enterprise space…are still looking at rich client delivery, for a number of reasons, not the LEAST of which is the fact that large enterprises have yet to really jump into the web…and that will take years. In the meantime they’re doing fantastic things with Office, and WPF and BizTalk and SQL Server and BI….amazing things really. Not really your bailiwick…I get that, but don’t also discount it.
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Jeff: >>Why even bother asking us what we think when you already know the correct answer?
You’re reading stuff into my writing that simply isn’t there. But, then, if I do know the answer I’m going to tell you. It’s my blog.
John: really? I was at a Salesforce conference and all the big companies say they are doing Web stuff now. I met lots of Fortune 100 companies there.
I guess that I can’t even engage in my own comment area anymore without being browbeat into submission without appearing defensive and/or angry. Sigh.
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Jeff: >>Why even bother asking us what we think when you already know the correct answer?
You’re reading stuff into my writing that simply isn’t there. But, then, if I do know the answer I’m going to tell you. It’s my blog.
John: really? I was at a Salesforce conference and all the big companies say they are doing Web stuff now. I met lots of Fortune 100 companies there.
I guess that I can’t even engage in my own comment area anymore without being browbeat into submission without appearing defensive and/or angry. Sigh.
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Jeff: >>Why even bother asking us what we think when you already know the correct answer?
You’re reading stuff into my writing that simply isn’t there. But, then, if I do know the answer I’m going to tell you. It’s my blog.
John: really? I was at a Salesforce conference and all the big companies say they are doing Web stuff now. I met lots of Fortune 100 companies there.
I guess that I can’t even engage in my own comment area anymore without being browbeat into submission without appearing defensive and/or angry. Sigh.
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John: the irony of you calling Kevin Johnson, a guy you work for, a moron, right after you were telling me I was burning my bridges. Pot calling kettle black maybe?
Amazing.
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John: the irony of you calling Kevin Johnson, a guy you work for, a moron, right after you were telling me I was burning my bridges. Pot calling kettle black maybe?
Amazing.
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John: the irony of you calling Kevin Johnson, a guy you work for, a moron, right after you were telling me I was burning my bridges. Pot calling kettle black maybe?
Amazing.
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@81…
I said “really jump into the web”…I didn’t mean do “something” with the web. It’s one thing for a company to do online banking or take insurance quotes online…quite another for them to go all web all the time. Annuity transaction processing systems, healthcare case management…still very much old school.
No big company doesn’t want to NOT admit that they’re not doing web stuff…but how many would say they are entirely web based or that many of their business critical or mission critical apps are web based…not many. You’ve got to get past the marketing veneer.
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@81…
I said “really jump into the web”…I didn’t mean do “something” with the web. It’s one thing for a company to do online banking or take insurance quotes online…quite another for them to go all web all the time. Annuity transaction processing systems, healthcare case management…still very much old school.
No big company doesn’t want to NOT admit that they’re not doing web stuff…but how many would say they are entirely web based or that many of their business critical or mission critical apps are web based…not many. You’ve got to get past the marketing veneer.
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I never had a bridge with Kevin…therefore not one to burn. 🙂
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I never had a bridge with Kevin…therefore not one to burn. 🙂
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BTW…I don’t work for Kevin, I work for Jeff, I’m in Office, Jeff is much less of a moron, I liked him when he was running sales and like him now. At least he had the balls to ditch Anoop (for example).
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BTW…I don’t work for Kevin, I work for Jeff, I’m in Office, Jeff is much less of a moron, I liked him when he was running sales and like him now. At least he had the balls to ditch Anoop (for example).
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John: #83. That’s true. But then companies are still using mainframes. I know, I just sat next to a VP from IBM (they are seeing lots of big sales in enterprises, particularly in airlines and banking). You know, that company that Microsoft was supposed to kill. 🙂
But, that’s not the point again. You arguing that mainframes matter? Just cause IBM is selling a shitload of them?
The PC was more important for the past 30 years because it grew more.
The Web is gonna grow more over the next 30 years than the PC will.
That doesn’t mean that PCs are going away. Doesn’t mean Office is going away. It just means all that stuff is less important cause it won’t bring growth to Microsoft.
Kevin Johnson might be a moron, but he did notice that Microsoft’s butt is getting kicked by Apple, Google, Amazon, eBay.
Add up the stock prices of those — go over to Google Finance and compare the five-year charts. It’s stunning the difference. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL
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John: #83. That’s true. But then companies are still using mainframes. I know, I just sat next to a VP from IBM (they are seeing lots of big sales in enterprises, particularly in airlines and banking). You know, that company that Microsoft was supposed to kill. 🙂
But, that’s not the point again. You arguing that mainframes matter? Just cause IBM is selling a shitload of them?
The PC was more important for the past 30 years because it grew more.
The Web is gonna grow more over the next 30 years than the PC will.
That doesn’t mean that PCs are going away. Doesn’t mean Office is going away. It just means all that stuff is less important cause it won’t bring growth to Microsoft.
Kevin Johnson might be a moron, but he did notice that Microsoft’s butt is getting kicked by Apple, Google, Amazon, eBay.
Add up the stock prices of those — go over to Google Finance and compare the five-year charts. It’s stunning the difference. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL
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Saying you don’t work for the president is a little weird.
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Saying you don’t work for the president is a little weird.
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Won’t argue with you on stock price. But it didn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Google and Amazone or others were going to be more innovative or quick to market or have better margins. So Kevin noticed, big deal, how long did it take him, what did he do about it. Even before he joined Windows he was in the SLT, he could have effected change…nothing. Nope, that issue is endemic to MSFT leadership…and I hate it. I won’t apologize for it. But don’t confuse that with your original post. All coolness doesn’t happen with web apps. And there are corners at the company you castigate that you have not seen, are not in your space, or are struggling to get stuff done the way that they know the industry wants to see it done. I can burn bridges (as you say) with Kevin, because I never had them. The few 1:1 conversations I had with him were disappointing at best and showed him as shortsighted and vision-less. My point on bridge burning was that you spent your time at MSFT as an ambassador, evangelist and bridge builder. Don’t throw that good will away. Regardless of the market, Microsoft will be a going concern…hopefully going faster in years to come. 🙂
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Won’t argue with you on stock price. But it didn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Google and Amazone or others were going to be more innovative or quick to market or have better margins. So Kevin noticed, big deal, how long did it take him, what did he do about it. Even before he joined Windows he was in the SLT, he could have effected change…nothing. Nope, that issue is endemic to MSFT leadership…and I hate it. I won’t apologize for it. But don’t confuse that with your original post. All coolness doesn’t happen with web apps. And there are corners at the company you castigate that you have not seen, are not in your space, or are struggling to get stuff done the way that they know the industry wants to see it done. I can burn bridges (as you say) with Kevin, because I never had them. The few 1:1 conversations I had with him were disappointing at best and showed him as shortsighted and vision-less. My point on bridge burning was that you spent your time at MSFT as an ambassador, evangelist and bridge builder. Don’t throw that good will away. Regardless of the market, Microsoft will be a going concern…hopefully going faster in years to come. 🙂
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@87…
Your MSFT org chart is getting a little rusty. Kevin Johnson isn’t the President of the Office division. Jeff Raikes is. Kevin is over Windows.
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@87…
Your MSFT org chart is getting a little rusty. Kevin Johnson isn’t the President of the Office division. Jeff Raikes is. Kevin is over Windows.
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#88: I don’t plan on throwing it away. But, then, I’m not going to just be a synchophant either. I have stock in Microsoft (only company I do, actually) and so I have a vested interest in seeing you guys grow.
I don’t know Kevin. Didn’t have 1:1 conversations with him, just saw him speak to our group twice. Thought he was focusing on the right things, but, yeah, haven’t heard him do anything specific to make Microsoft more interesting, er, grow faster.
As for Office, I saw quite a bit of the coolest stuff there. It’s interesting, but there’ll be more to say after the Office 2.0 conference that’s coming up about that.
Microsoft is a 100 year company, even if they, er, you, do everything wrong. There’s no way it’s going away. Microsoft didn’t make IBM go away, even though Microsoft kicked IBM’s ass for 20+ years.
When I throw darts Microsoft’s way, it’s just over growth. That’s all. I don’t see any negative financials coming. If they do, they’ll totally shock me. Microsoft is going to continue being one of the best businesses the world has ever seen for as far into the future that I can see.
But that’s not what I’m talking about here.
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#88: I don’t plan on throwing it away. But, then, I’m not going to just be a synchophant either. I have stock in Microsoft (only company I do, actually) and so I have a vested interest in seeing you guys grow.
I don’t know Kevin. Didn’t have 1:1 conversations with him, just saw him speak to our group twice. Thought he was focusing on the right things, but, yeah, haven’t heard him do anything specific to make Microsoft more interesting, er, grow faster.
As for Office, I saw quite a bit of the coolest stuff there. It’s interesting, but there’ll be more to say after the Office 2.0 conference that’s coming up about that.
Microsoft is a 100 year company, even if they, er, you, do everything wrong. There’s no way it’s going away. Microsoft didn’t make IBM go away, even though Microsoft kicked IBM’s ass for 20+ years.
When I throw darts Microsoft’s way, it’s just over growth. That’s all. I don’t see any negative financials coming. If they do, they’ll totally shock me. Microsoft is going to continue being one of the best businesses the world has ever seen for as far into the future that I can see.
But that’s not what I’m talking about here.
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Robert@25, you released blogger@wordpress personal information (his/her IP address) which is only available to you and he/she did not explictly want to make it public.
You post to a public website, you takes your chances.
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Robert@25, you released blogger@wordpress personal information (his/her IP address) which is only available to you and he/she did not explictly want to make it public.
You post to a public website, you takes your chances.
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Good Grief, Scoble. You really don’t know how to make an argument for your position. Just because you supposedly talk to a lot of people–people supposedly representing “major companies” and “F100” companies does not prove your argument. Major corporations have their hands in all types of technologies. Just because some random person from some F100 company shows up at a salesforce.com conference doesn’t mean that company is not being “wowed” by Microsoft. Jeff (from Office) makes just as compelling an argument that major corporations are being wowed by Microsoft because of the things they are doing. Using the Bandwagon fallacy does not prove your argument.
Also, whenever I see someone setting themselves up as some sort of authority to prove their argument, I can pretty much discount their position. In logic, this is know as “appealing to misleading authority” You attempt to set yourself up as an authority by using anecdotal data. You seem to use this position of authority argument when you are unable to prove your point with any quantifiable data. Unless or until you can prove your point with verifiable data, all we have is your opinion. Thus, those defending Microsoft come from just as credible a position.
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Good Grief, Scoble. You really don’t know how to make an argument for your position. Just because you supposedly talk to a lot of people–people supposedly representing “major companies” and “F100” companies does not prove your argument. Major corporations have their hands in all types of technologies. Just because some random person from some F100 company shows up at a salesforce.com conference doesn’t mean that company is not being “wowed” by Microsoft. Jeff (from Office) makes just as compelling an argument that major corporations are being wowed by Microsoft because of the things they are doing. Using the Bandwagon fallacy does not prove your argument.
Also, whenever I see someone setting themselves up as some sort of authority to prove their argument, I can pretty much discount their position. In logic, this is know as “appealing to misleading authority” You attempt to set yourself up as an authority by using anecdotal data. You seem to use this position of authority argument when you are unable to prove your point with any quantifiable data. Unless or until you can prove your point with verifiable data, all we have is your opinion. Thus, those defending Microsoft come from just as credible a position.
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Well Robert , you might have read this already. But this is still a good forum to post this link – http://chris.pirillo.com/2007/02/27/windows-vista-im-breaking-up-with-you/
😦
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Well Robert , you might have read this already. But this is still a good forum to post this link – http://chris.pirillo.com/2007/02/27/windows-vista-im-breaking-up-with-you/
😦
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Sure, there is no expectation of private information. But for whatever reason blogger@wordpress did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship with Microsoft.
However, it does explain their angle for their opinions.
But, that’s not the point again. You arguing that mainframes matter? Just cause IBM is selling a shitload of them?
No, I’ll argue they matter because they still run a shitload of the world’s banking transactions, are designed not to crash, are able to handle, per machine, loads that would make a Windows box run away crapping its drawers, and have been using technology that the PC world is just now mainstreaming.
If you think Mainframes don’t matter, you really ARE clueless.
Microsoft isn’t going away anytime soon, but they are essentially repeating the mistakes IBM made from about 1980 to Gerstner.
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Sure, there is no expectation of private information. But for whatever reason blogger@wordpress did not want to explicitly reveal his/her relationship with Microsoft.
However, it does explain their angle for their opinions.
But, that’s not the point again. You arguing that mainframes matter? Just cause IBM is selling a shitload of them?
No, I’ll argue they matter because they still run a shitload of the world’s banking transactions, are designed not to crash, are able to handle, per machine, loads that would make a Windows box run away crapping its drawers, and have been using technology that the PC world is just now mainstreaming.
If you think Mainframes don’t matter, you really ARE clueless.
Microsoft isn’t going away anytime soon, but they are essentially repeating the mistakes IBM made from about 1980 to Gerstner.
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Robert, in that case I would like to know information you could derive from LayZ’s IP address.
I had few comments exchanged with LayZ on your blog before I gave up for two reasons. 1. LayZ could have wrote anything whereas I had to be more careful to protect my real life credibility. 2. My viewpoint is dilluted because one could say I am from Microsoft. But the same could not have been said about LayZ’s comment.
(I apologize LayZ. Your id is just for explaining the point. But the disadvantages 1. and 2., I mentioned above were exactly the reasons I gave up arguing with anonymous people.)
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Robert, in that case I would like to know information you could derive from LayZ’s IP address.
I had few comments exchanged with LayZ on your blog before I gave up for two reasons. 1. LayZ could have wrote anything whereas I had to be more careful to protect my real life credibility. 2. My viewpoint is dilluted because one could say I am from Microsoft. But the same could not have been said about LayZ’s comment.
(I apologize LayZ. Your id is just for explaining the point. But the disadvantages 1. and 2., I mentioned above were exactly the reasons I gave up arguing with anonymous people.)
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Hey Robert, Re your comments to my comment.
Darren: If Visual Studio is such a great tool how come almost none of the Office or Windows developers who work at Microsoft use it? If it’s so much more productive than other approaches, why doesn’t Microsoft ITSELF bet on that tool?
I was actually talking about web development and asp.net 2.0 not windows application development.
I have no knowledge to what MS does internally but from an end user point of view they have put a lot of thought and detail into making asp.net 2.0 a great platform for getting stuff done.
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Hey Robert, Re your comments to my comment.
Darren: If Visual Studio is such a great tool how come almost none of the Office or Windows developers who work at Microsoft use it? If it’s so much more productive than other approaches, why doesn’t Microsoft ITSELF bet on that tool?
I was actually talking about web development and asp.net 2.0 not windows application development.
I have no knowledge to what MS does internally but from an end user point of view they have put a lot of thought and detail into making asp.net 2.0 a great platform for getting stuff done.
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@95
“My viewpoint is dilluted because one could say I am from Microsoft”
This is the only reason i wanted to remain anonymous. Because i strongly fely onlce my MS identity is established nobody even tries to see the actual viewpoint. They just assume you are defending microsoft because you work there.
” could have wrote anything whereas I had to be more careful to protect my real life credibility”
*realization*
I have never looked at anonymous comments from this angle until now. I see how it puts you on an unfair advantage on a debate with a named guy. So here i stop doing that. (To give some real background – I work as a tester in the C# compiler team)
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@95
“My viewpoint is dilluted because one could say I am from Microsoft”
This is the only reason i wanted to remain anonymous. Because i strongly fely onlce my MS identity is established nobody even tries to see the actual viewpoint. They just assume you are defending microsoft because you work there.
” could have wrote anything whereas I had to be more careful to protect my real life credibility”
*realization*
I have never looked at anonymous comments from this angle until now. I see how it puts you on an unfair advantage on a debate with a named guy. So here i stop doing that. (To give some real background – I work as a tester in the C# compiler team)
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Seshadri: actually, people do listen. They might act like they aren’t, though.
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Seshadri: actually, people do listen. They might act like they aren’t, though.
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This is the only reason i wanted to remain anonymous. Because i strongly fely onlce my MS identity is established nobody even tries to see the actual viewpoint. They just assume you are defending microsoft because you work there.
Only if you come across as feeling the need to counter every criticism of Microsoft. When that happens, people think “Hey, Microsoft doesn’t listen unless you say what they want to hear”.
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This is the only reason i wanted to remain anonymous. Because i strongly fely onlce my MS identity is established nobody even tries to see the actual viewpoint. They just assume you are defending microsoft because you work there.
Only if you come across as feeling the need to counter every criticism of Microsoft. When that happens, people think “Hey, Microsoft doesn’t listen unless you say what they want to hear”.
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