HP has major ethical problem, day 2

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I’m sure the board of directors at HP is hoping this one just blows over. Here’s a hint. It won’t. Until you get rid of Pat. A message MUST be sent that the ends do NOT justify the means.

David Berlind put it well when he asked “how steep will the cost of HP’s dysfunctional family be?”

This is worse than dysfunction. A message MUST be sent to people in power of big companies that privacy is something that they MUST NOT TRODDEN UPON.

Industry analysts are saying that the HP board will suffer little. Um, really? Did you read the front page of the important newspapers this morning?

They are right, usually bloggers and press bite and then release, moving onto the next big story of the day (new Apple stuff coming, for instance).

But, will this time be any different? When will Pat go? That’ll be the day I see that HP has gotten its ethics back in shape. Until then, be prepared. This story is NOT going away.

Certainly California’s Attorney General isn’t letting go. Look at this quote from SFGate: “In this case, clearly a crime has been committed,” he said in an interview. “The question is by whom. How far does the liability extend?”

Published by Robert Scoble

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45 thoughts on “HP has major ethical problem, day 2”

  1. What about the story of Microsoft’s felony antitrust conviction? Almost 7 years later, that’s still a story you and your colleagues at Microsoft certainly try to make “go away”.

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  2. What about the story of Microsoft’s felony antitrust conviction? Almost 7 years later, that’s still a story you and your colleagues at Microsoft certainly try to make “go away”.

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  3. Anon: and that was punished by billions of dollars of fees and judgments, lots of internal beauracracy, a stock price that’s about half of what it was when the conviction came down and a culture that’s changed quite a bit from those 1999 days.

    And there we didn’t have a specific person who broke a law, but a group of them.

    This is different. This is one person who had an ethical lapse. She must go. Anyone who tries to use another company’s crimes to say no or to try to change the conversation onto something else is an idiot. And, yes, I just did pull out the ad hominem card. I don’t use it often, but here it’s totally justified.

    Oh, and I don’t work at Microsoft anymore so they aren’t my colleagues anymore.

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  4. Anon: and that was punished by billions of dollars of fees and judgments, lots of internal beauracracy, a stock price that’s about half of what it was when the conviction came down and a culture that’s changed quite a bit from those 1999 days.

    And there we didn’t have a specific person who broke a law, but a group of them.

    This is different. This is one person who had an ethical lapse. She must go. Anyone who tries to use another company’s crimes to say no or to try to change the conversation onto something else is an idiot. And, yes, I just did pull out the ad hominem card. I don’t use it often, but here it’s totally justified.

    Oh, and I don’t work at Microsoft anymore so they aren’t my colleagues anymore.

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  7. Robert, no need for the ad hominem attack. I don’t disagree about Dunn, if she is responsible. But there you go trying to sweep Microsoft’s past offenses under the rug with talk of fines, bureaucracy, and stock price. The people at Microsoft responsible for its actions have still managed to profit from the company’s criminality, haven’t they? How big has Bill’s foundation gotten since the antitrust conviction in U.S. courts?

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  8. Robert, no need for the ad hominem attack. I don’t disagree about Dunn, if she is responsible. But there you go trying to sweep Microsoft’s past offenses under the rug with talk of fines, bureaucracy, and stock price. The people at Microsoft responsible for its actions have still managed to profit from the company’s criminality, haven’t they? How big has Bill’s foundation gotten since the antitrust conviction in U.S. courts?

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  9. A question I’d like answered is where they got the infromation to carrying out their investigations?

    Did Pat turn over confidential personal information to the investigators so they could conduct their investigation? How did they get SIN numbers, birthdates , phone numbers, etc.?

    If Pat handed over the information from the forms are obligated by the SEC to fill out then I think she’s in even deeper than the moral consequences.

    What do you guys think – is this a legal or a moral question? I’m beginning to think its a lot more of both after reading further reports. Yesterday, it seemed more moral.

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  10. A question I’d like answered is where they got the infromation to carrying out their investigations?

    Did Pat turn over confidential personal information to the investigators so they could conduct their investigation? How did they get SIN numbers, birthdates , phone numbers, etc.?

    If Pat handed over the information from the forms are obligated by the SEC to fill out then I think she’s in even deeper than the moral consequences.

    What do you guys think – is this a legal or a moral question? I’m beginning to think its a lot more of both after reading further reports. Yesterday, it seemed more moral.

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  13. I think the (unspoken) assumption I see in this discussion aournd as I look (that this is an isolated event) is fundametnally flawed.

    I’d urge people not to focus so much exclusively on this event at HP, but rather on the lack of transparency of boards and their lack of being informed of all information by all stakeholders of the 21st century organization.

    I’d like to see us learn from this as a group and not assign the blame all to one individual – that is too simplistic and would be typical of the traditional media – we can and must be better than that…

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  14. I think the (unspoken) assumption I see in this discussion aournd as I look (that this is an isolated event) is fundametnally flawed.

    I’d urge people not to focus so much exclusively on this event at HP, but rather on the lack of transparency of boards and their lack of being informed of all information by all stakeholders of the 21st century organization.

    I’d like to see us learn from this as a group and not assign the blame all to one individual – that is too simplistic and would be typical of the traditional media – we can and must be better than that…

    Like

  17. The quote I had heard from the California Attorney General seemed to suggest that it wasn’t certain that a crime had been committed, but that it was certainly “collosally stupid.”

    I think being collasally stupid should be a firable offense, crime or no crime.

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  18. The quote I had heard from the California Attorney General seemed to suggest that it wasn’t certain that a crime had been committed, but that it was certainly “collosally stupid.”

    I think being collasally stupid should be a firable offense, crime or no crime.

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  19. @4…so wait, you’re going to say that the growth of the Gates Foudation is a BAD by product of growth of Microsoft stock? Wow, that’s a new low. You just discredited your entire line of reasoning. Have to say that Robert is right on this one (and I don’t agree with him on everything).

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  20. @4…so wait, you’re going to say that the growth of the Gates Foudation is a BAD by product of growth of Microsoft stock? Wow, that’s a new low. You just discredited your entire line of reasoning. Have to say that Robert is right on this one (and I don’t agree with him on everything).

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  21. solomonrex

    America Only has regional Papers – thers no direct equivelent to the Times Telegraph,Gruniad,and the Sindy

    And thers a hell of a diference between a criminal hacking offence and antitrust.

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  22. solomonrex

    America Only has regional Papers – thers no direct equivelent to the Times Telegraph,Gruniad,and the Sindy

    And thers a hell of a diference between a criminal hacking offence and antitrust.

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  24. @4. You are making MS out to be some sort of Enron. It is Gates’ fault that people still continued to buy MS products despite being ruled a monopoly? Seems like the market didn’t care and they continued to buy MS stuff, thus making MS more money. Not Gates problem. Like Shocking said, seems Scoble is right on this one. MS paid their penalties and has moved on. The HP board–(and Robert, you need to make the disticntion..I doubt this is HP policy, but rather more a board issue) has yet to be held accountable

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  26. @4. You are making MS out to be some sort of Enron. It is Gates’ fault that people still continued to buy MS products despite being ruled a monopoly? Seems like the market didn’t care and they continued to buy MS stuff, thus making MS more money. Not Gates problem. Like Shocking said, seems Scoble is right on this one. MS paid their penalties and has moved on. The HP board–(and Robert, you need to make the disticntion..I doubt this is HP policy, but rather more a board issue) has yet to be held accountable

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  27. I agree with you Robert; as a journalist, there’s one thing that I never like to hear, and that’s people treading on MY right to privacy. This ones going to bite them hard for a long time.

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  28. I agree with you Robert; as a journalist, there’s one thing that I never like to hear, and that’s people treading on MY right to privacy. This ones going to bite them hard for a long time.

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  29. You don’t try to get to the root of all issues these days?
    Atleast when you were at MS you made it a point to go talk to the right people and get their viewpoint on it.

    oh, if HP’s board decides to let this slide – who else can escalate this issue?

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  30. You don’t try to get to the root of all issues these days?
    Atleast when you were at MS you made it a point to go talk to the right people and get their viewpoint on it.

    oh, if HP’s board decides to let this slide – who else can escalate this issue?

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  31. Robert, isn’t it possible that she asked the private eye to look into the matter–and was as surprised as you are that law-breaking was part of the toolkit he planned to use?

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  32. Robert, isn’t it possible that she asked the private eye to look into the matter–and was as surprised as you are that law-breaking was part of the toolkit he planned to use?

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  33. Betsy, industrial espionage is industrial espionage by whatever name you call it and we all know what the legal penalty for ‘espionage’ is within the geneva convention ?? :)-

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  34. Betsy, industrial espionage is industrial espionage by whatever name you call it and we all know what the legal penalty for ‘espionage’ is within the geneva convention ?? :)-

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