Sigh. Microsoft’s marketers will never learn

92 thoughts on “Sigh. Microsoft’s marketers will never learn”

1. 1. I think that email is still more pervasive than RSS subscriptions, if you’re targetting the masses rather than geeks.

   2. RSS feeds work better for high frequency updates. Email subscriptions work better for bi-weekly or less frequent updates.

   3. I use RSS Bandit for my RSS reading. I’m subscribed to probably 250 RSS feeds (maybe more). But I only check 5 of them on a daily basis. I have no clue what’s going on in the other 245 feeds. If Zune just had RSS subscriptions, that would be one more RSS feed that I’d never bother to check. But my email subscriptions are a different story. I have no idea how many email subscriptions I have (I guess about a dozen, from sources like Apple, Microsoft, ACDSee, Stanford, etc), but whenever the various email subscriptions provide updated content, I do read them because it’s provided as ordinary email, which I check daily.

   So you see, RSS and Email have their places, and proclaiming RSS to be superior, no ifs, ands, or buts, is foolhardy.

   Scoble, I know that you’re all about RSS and blogs, but declaring Zune to be dead (i.e. Apple has nothing to worry about) because of lack of RSS feeds is buying into your own hype. I really think you need to be more open-minded yourself. RSS isn’t everything.

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2. 1. I think that email is still more pervasive than RSS subscriptions, if you’re targetting the masses rather than geeks.

   2. RSS feeds work better for high frequency updates. Email subscriptions work better for bi-weekly or less frequent updates.

   3. I use RSS Bandit for my RSS reading. I’m subscribed to probably 250 RSS feeds (maybe more). But I only check 5 of them on a daily basis. I have no clue what’s going on in the other 245 feeds. If Zune just had RSS subscriptions, that would be one more RSS feed that I’d never bother to check. But my email subscriptions are a different story. I have no idea how many email subscriptions I have (I guess about a dozen, from sources like Apple, Microsoft, ACDSee, Stanford, etc), but whenever the various email subscriptions provide updated content, I do read them because it’s provided as ordinary email, which I check daily.

   So you see, RSS and Email have their places, and proclaiming RSS to be superior, no ifs, ands, or buts, is foolhardy.

   Scoble, I know that you’re all about RSS and blogs, but declaring Zune to be dead (i.e. Apple has nothing to worry about) because of lack of RSS feeds is buying into your own hype. I really think you need to be more open-minded yourself. RSS isn’t everything.

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3. True, RSS is better, I hate more junk mail. BUT I still know very little people that subscribe to RSS feeds, the concept is still foreign to those that just browse and read their email.

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4. True, RSS is better, I hate more junk mail. BUT I still know very little people that subscribe to RSS feeds, the concept is still foreign to those that just browse and read their email.

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5. So do both!!!

   Why is this such a battle for everyone to understand? You do what the users want. And many users want RSS.

   At every audience I’ve spoken to there have been RSS users in there.

   It’s the same thing as saying “we won’t support Firefox.” Yeah, IE still has more users, but any marketer that tells even a few percent of the audience to go pound sand is telling the market a lot.

   Plus, RSS users tell MANY times more people about things than email users do.

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6. So do both!!!

   Why is this such a battle for everyone to understand? You do what the users want. And many users want RSS.

   At every audience I’ve spoken to there have been RSS users in there.

   It’s the same thing as saying “we won’t support Firefox.” Yeah, IE still has more users, but any marketer that tells even a few percent of the audience to go pound sand is telling the market a lot.

   Plus, RSS users tell MANY times more people about things than email users do.

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7. MollyC: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.

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8. MollyC: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.

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9. When I tried to read the comments at the Zune blog, I got 404 errors.

   What was I going to say? The blogger, Cesar Menendez, said he wants to discuss “music, music culture, videos, cool bands, things like that.” I think a good place to start would be with iTunes, the iTunes Music Store and the iPod. After all, Apple currently owns the market and will for the foreseeable future. IF Cesar is not allowed to say the iWords, then the Zune blog should not be taken seriously.

   Also, since Microsoft is apparently targeting the young and hip demographic, I think it should have chosen a youthful, good looking guy (or better yet, gal) as Zune blogger. Cesar does not give off the right vibe.

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10. When I tried to read the comments at the Zune blog, I got 404 errors.

    What was I going to say? The blogger, Cesar Menendez, said he wants to discuss “music, music culture, videos, cool bands, things like that.” I think a good place to start would be with iTunes, the iTunes Music Store and the iPod. After all, Apple currently owns the market and will for the foreseeable future. IF Cesar is not allowed to say the iWords, then the Zune blog should not be taken seriously.

    Also, since Microsoft is apparently targeting the young and hip demographic, I think it should have chosen a youthful, good looking guy (or better yet, gal) as Zune blogger. Cesar does not give off the right vibe.

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11. Podesta: hmmm, they are working here for me.

    Yeah, picking the right influentials to start a marketing campaign does seem to be important, doesn’t it? (That’s how MySpace’s CTO told me they got so big — they made sure their first users and employees were hip Hollywood influentials).

    But, then, I would rather have a real employee answering my questions, not a pretty face for pretty face’s sake.

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12. Podesta: hmmm, they are working here for me.

    Yeah, picking the right influentials to start a marketing campaign does seem to be important, doesn’t it? (That’s how MySpace’s CTO told me they got so big — they made sure their first users and employees were hip Hollywood influentials).

    But, then, I would rather have a real employee answering my questions, not a pretty face for pretty face’s sake.

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13. It seems to me that the kind of audience that invites you to speak is pre-disposed to your brand of kool-aid. This data point is less persuasive than it might have otherwise been.

    When you can start claiming that your last six Denny’s waitresses even knew what RSS was, your argument starts holding water. I’ll bet they’ve heard of email.

    I agree that RSS is potentially more convienent than email. I don’t really think that not having RSS is going to tank something at this point in history. Why they didn’t do both, I don’t know, but if they could only do one, they certianly made the correct choice.

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14. It seems to me that the kind of audience that invites you to speak is pre-disposed to your brand of kool-aid. This data point is less persuasive than it might have otherwise been.

    When you can start claiming that your last six Denny’s waitresses even knew what RSS was, your argument starts holding water. I’ll bet they’ve heard of email.

    I agree that RSS is potentially more convienent than email. I don’t really think that not having RSS is going to tank something at this point in history. Why they didn’t do both, I don’t know, but if they could only do one, they certianly made the correct choice.

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15. What’s disturbing about the comingzune site is that it isn’t even registered to Microsoft, but by proxy, anonymously. Ahem. Ahem.

    I betting this is like the Origami project. All hype, no substance.

    When Zune is released, people will come to the table at the Microsoft showfloor, look at the MP3 player, and say “But where’s Zune?”

    “Here it is,” the Microserf will say proudly on behalf of his corporate masters.

    “Oh.” And they’ll walk away.

    BTW, the music (Regina Spektor, Us on that site is disturbing given Microsoft’s megolomaniacal leanings.

    They made a statue of us
    And it put it on a mountain top
    Now tourists come and stare at us
    Blow bubbles with their gum
    Take photographs for fun, for fun

    They’ll name a city after us
    And later say it’s all our fault
    Then they’ll give us a talking to
    Then they’ll give us a talking to
    Because they’ve got years of experience
    We’re living in a den of thieves
    Rummaging for answers in the pages
    We’re living in a den of thieves
    And it’s contagious (x4)

    We wear our scarves just like a noose
    But not ’cause we want eternal sleep
    And though our parts are slightly used
    New ones are slave labor you can keep

    Not a good choice at all.

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16. What’s disturbing about the comingzune site is that it isn’t even registered to Microsoft, but by proxy, anonymously. Ahem. Ahem.

    I betting this is like the Origami project. All hype, no substance.

    When Zune is released, people will come to the table at the Microsoft showfloor, look at the MP3 player, and say “But where’s Zune?”

    “Here it is,” the Microserf will say proudly on behalf of his corporate masters.

    “Oh.” And they’ll walk away.

    BTW, the music (Regina Spektor, Us on that site is disturbing given Microsoft’s megolomaniacal leanings.

    They made a statue of us
    And it put it on a mountain top
    Now tourists come and stare at us
    Blow bubbles with their gum
    Take photographs for fun, for fun

    They’ll name a city after us
    And later say it’s all our fault
    Then they’ll give us a talking to
    Then they’ll give us a talking to
    Because they’ve got years of experience
    We’re living in a den of thieves
    Rummaging for answers in the pages
    We’re living in a den of thieves
    And it’s contagious (x4)

    We wear our scarves just like a noose
    But not ’cause we want eternal sleep
    And though our parts are slightly used
    New ones are slave labor you can keep

    Not a good choice at all.

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17. Bill: you might think that, but you’d be wrong. RSS is going mainstream. It’s coming in IE 7 next year. Maybe normal people won’t know they are using RSS, but RSS is all over the place in Windows Vista.

    Your argument will hold up if you claim normal people don’t go to the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/?ok (they have RSS) or don’t read any of these things: http://radio.xmlstoragesystem.com/rcsPublic/rssHotlist

    Remember, if you made decisions on this basis, you would have avoided the Web. After all, no one before 1994 used THAT!

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18. Bill: you might think that, but you’d be wrong. RSS is going mainstream. It’s coming in IE 7 next year. Maybe normal people won’t know they are using RSS, but RSS is all over the place in Windows Vista.

    Your argument will hold up if you claim normal people don’t go to the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/?ok (they have RSS) or don’t read any of these things: http://radio.xmlstoragesystem.com/rcsPublic/rssHotlist

    Remember, if you made decisions on this basis, you would have avoided the Web. After all, no one before 1994 used THAT!

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19. >Why they didn’t do both, I don’t know, but if they could only do one, they certianly made the correct choice.

    I also totally disagree here. Who are they trying to reach online? Influencers!!!

    Influencers overwhelmingly have already switched to RSS.

    Why are influencers so important? Did you already forget the lesson of what happened when I quit Microsoft? I told 15 people my story (none of whom were professional journalists). The story got about 50 million impressions the PR agencies say (you should have seen the Word doc that Waggener Edstrom prepared on me). All because I told 15 influencers.

    Influencers are EXTREMELY important to get to support you. Google understands this at a deep level.

    Apple understands this at a deep level.

    Microsoft still has a ways to go.

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20. >Why they didn’t do both, I don’t know, but if they could only do one, they certianly made the correct choice.

    I also totally disagree here. Who are they trying to reach online? Influencers!!!

    Influencers overwhelmingly have already switched to RSS.

    Why are influencers so important? Did you already forget the lesson of what happened when I quit Microsoft? I told 15 people my story (none of whom were professional journalists). The story got about 50 million impressions the PR agencies say (you should have seen the Word doc that Waggener Edstrom prepared on me). All because I told 15 influencers.

    Influencers are EXTREMELY important to get to support you. Google understands this at a deep level.

    Apple understands this at a deep level.

    Microsoft still has a ways to go.

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21. “MollyC: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.”
    ————————–

    Robert, I subscribed to a lot of RSS feeds because I encountered them (mostly blogs) by way of links (many from your own blog), and they strike my fancy at the time that I first visit them, so I subscribe. But I don’t bother to check them in the future. Similarly, I’m a member of many Yahoo Groups and am subscribed to many Google Groups (i.e. Usenet newsgroups), but I don’t check those either. Every so often, I do unsubscribe to these things, but I usually don’t bother.

    Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”. Come down off your high horse. Celebrity has gone to your head. You are in NO position to judge me as to how I subscribe to RSS feeds, email mailing lists, newsgroups, or anything else. Good grief.

    And who’s to say that they won’t do both RSS and email? Zune was just officially acknowledged TODAY. There’s only a single measly viral marketing site so far and a blog from an MS Zune employee. Let the marketing develop before already condemning it.

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22. “MollyC: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.”
    ————————–

    Robert, I subscribed to a lot of RSS feeds because I encountered them (mostly blogs) by way of links (many from your own blog), and they strike my fancy at the time that I first visit them, so I subscribe. But I don’t bother to check them in the future. Similarly, I’m a member of many Yahoo Groups and am subscribed to many Google Groups (i.e. Usenet newsgroups), but I don’t check those either. Every so often, I do unsubscribe to these things, but I usually don’t bother.

    Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”. Come down off your high horse. Celebrity has gone to your head. You are in NO position to judge me as to how I subscribe to RSS feeds, email mailing lists, newsgroups, or anything else. Good grief.

    And who’s to say that they won’t do both RSS and email? Zune was just officially acknowledged TODAY. There’s only a single measly viral marketing site so far and a blog from an MS Zune employee. Let the marketing develop before already condemning it.

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23. You say Google and Apple understand the concept of “influencers” at a deep level yet you criticize both companies at every turn for not catering to that same crowd.

    I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing pages and I certainly don’t see a plethora of Apple blogs. Yet Apple’s marketing is widely lauded as epitomizing what tech marketing should be. It certainly seems to reach an audience that most marketers covet.

    You’ve never addressed this in your blog — in fact you’ve avoided it every time it’s been brought up. What’s most offensive about your blog is that you present arguments that could be intelligently argued — and then offer a position that represents the lowest common denominator.

    Your talk about the Xbox’s business model is ridiculous. The first Xbox followed the razor and the blades business model yet proceeded to lose $4B (yes billion) dollars. Yet this same business model is going to result in profitability for the 360? Already, Microsoft is behind their shipment projections. As I said when the 360 launched, MS has already lost. They just don’t know it yet.

    I’m not trying to take away from blogs and RSS. They are significant. But to position them in this revolutionary light does both a disservice. They are just another tool to reach out to your audience. Your five minutes are running out — best of luck.

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24. You say Google and Apple understand the concept of “influencers” at a deep level yet you criticize both companies at every turn for not catering to that same crowd.

    I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing pages and I certainly don’t see a plethora of Apple blogs. Yet Apple’s marketing is widely lauded as epitomizing what tech marketing should be. It certainly seems to reach an audience that most marketers covet.

    You’ve never addressed this in your blog — in fact you’ve avoided it every time it’s been brought up. What’s most offensive about your blog is that you present arguments that could be intelligently argued — and then offer a position that represents the lowest common denominator.

    Your talk about the Xbox’s business model is ridiculous. The first Xbox followed the razor and the blades business model yet proceeded to lose $4B (yes billion) dollars. Yet this same business model is going to result in profitability for the 360? Already, Microsoft is behind their shipment projections. As I said when the 360 launched, MS has already lost. They just don’t know it yet.

    I’m not trying to take away from blogs and RSS. They are significant. But to position them in this revolutionary light does both a disservice. They are just another tool to reach out to your audience. Your five minutes are running out — best of luck.

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25. Molly: >Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”.

    Sorry, I’m just going off of your own words. You say you subscribe to RSS feeds, but then forget them, but you stay involved with your email. I find that to be bizarre behavior. I should have been more inquisitive rather than nonplussed, sorry. Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here? I’m trying to tell you that — based on my experiences — you’re wrong. You’re trying to tell me you’re right. Yes, our egos are clashing. That’s OK, it’s part of finding out who’s right. At the end of the day one of us will be shown to be right. Maybe it’s you. I can accept that. But I’ve done my homework and been around the world talking with both industry insiders and everyday users and RSS is kicking ass and taking no prisoners. Email sucks cause of spam, cause of overload (I have hundreds of emails coursing through here every day). Cause of marketers that send me stupid crap I didn’t ask for (Microsoft is one of the better companies, but at Fawcette they sold email addresses to other companies, which gets you tons of spam).

    >You say Google and Apple understand the concept of “influencers” at a deep level yet you criticize both companies at every turn for not catering to that same crowd.

    Every company has its things it does well and not so well. Microsoft does some things with influencers VERY well. Like MSN Search Champs.

    But it does some other things NOT so well (like not supporting non-IE browsers, or not having RSS feeds.

    Same with Apple and Google. Companies are made up of people. For every person who “gets it” inside a big company there are 14 who don’t (and that doesn’t change even if you redefine “gets it” to be different).

    >Yet Apple’s marketing is widely lauded as epitomizing what tech marketing should be.

    Really? Apple has, what, 5% market share? If that’s so successful then I’m sorry, I don’t see it. Now, iPod? Absolutely. Apple hit it out of the park there.

    >You’ve never addressed this in your blog — in fact you’ve avoided it every time it’s been brought up.

    Wow, you’ve read every single word I’ve posted over the past 5.5 years? Damn, you’re good!

    >Your five minutes are running out — best of luck.

    Say something nice about me at my funeral. I won’t be there. Thanks!

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26. Molly: >Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”.

    Sorry, I’m just going off of your own words. You say you subscribe to RSS feeds, but then forget them, but you stay involved with your email. I find that to be bizarre behavior. I should have been more inquisitive rather than nonplussed, sorry. Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here? I’m trying to tell you that — based on my experiences — you’re wrong. You’re trying to tell me you’re right. Yes, our egos are clashing. That’s OK, it’s part of finding out who’s right. At the end of the day one of us will be shown to be right. Maybe it’s you. I can accept that. But I’ve done my homework and been around the world talking with both industry insiders and everyday users and RSS is kicking ass and taking no prisoners. Email sucks cause of spam, cause of overload (I have hundreds of emails coursing through here every day). Cause of marketers that send me stupid crap I didn’t ask for (Microsoft is one of the better companies, but at Fawcette they sold email addresses to other companies, which gets you tons of spam).

    >You say Google and Apple understand the concept of “influencers” at a deep level yet you criticize both companies at every turn for not catering to that same crowd.

    Every company has its things it does well and not so well. Microsoft does some things with influencers VERY well. Like MSN Search Champs.

    But it does some other things NOT so well (like not supporting non-IE browsers, or not having RSS feeds.

    Same with Apple and Google. Companies are made up of people. For every person who “gets it” inside a big company there are 14 who don’t (and that doesn’t change even if you redefine “gets it” to be different).

    >Yet Apple’s marketing is widely lauded as epitomizing what tech marketing should be.

    Really? Apple has, what, 5% market share? If that’s so successful then I’m sorry, I don’t see it. Now, iPod? Absolutely. Apple hit it out of the park there.

    >You’ve never addressed this in your blog — in fact you’ve avoided it every time it’s been brought up.

    Wow, you’ve read every single word I’ve posted over the past 5.5 years? Damn, you’re good!

    >Your five minutes are running out — best of luck.

    Say something nice about me at my funeral. I won’t be there. Thanks!

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27. By the way, you do realize why they are doing email and not RSS, right?

    Someone has to justify the expense to their bosses.

    RSS isn’t as easy to quantify. Are those readers? Well, no. They are subscribers, but some of those subscribers, like Molly, just subscribed and never look at their feeds. And, anyway, you never really know much about who is subscribing.

    But, with email? I can see their domains and make some assumptions. I can also track and see if the email is opened (web bugs). And, anyway, if someone signs up for an email it’s a lot more real than if someone subscribes to a Web feed.

    This is a marketer justifying the expense of the campaign to his/her bosses. But I really don’t care about that.

    If they have news that’s really important they’ll put it on the RSS feed.

    We took a bit of heat at Microsoft because we didn’t do the whole “collect emails for marketing reasons” deal for Channel 9. But I notice that Channel 9 passed by every single marketing effort inside Microsoft and, the month I left, had 4.3 million unique visitors.

    This RSS idea? It has legs.

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28. By the way, you do realize why they are doing email and not RSS, right?

    Someone has to justify the expense to their bosses.

    RSS isn’t as easy to quantify. Are those readers? Well, no. They are subscribers, but some of those subscribers, like Molly, just subscribed and never look at their feeds. And, anyway, you never really know much about who is subscribing.

    But, with email? I can see their domains and make some assumptions. I can also track and see if the email is opened (web bugs). And, anyway, if someone signs up for an email it’s a lot more real than if someone subscribes to a Web feed.

    This is a marketer justifying the expense of the campaign to his/her bosses. But I really don’t care about that.

    If they have news that’s really important they’ll put it on the RSS feed.

    We took a bit of heat at Microsoft because we didn’t do the whole “collect emails for marketing reasons” deal for Channel 9. But I notice that Channel 9 passed by every single marketing effort inside Microsoft and, the month I left, had 4.3 million unique visitors.

    This RSS idea? It has legs.

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29. Robert: you said something like “I didn’t like the person I was becoming” when you were getting to be unhappy at Microsoft.

    If your writing is anything to go by you must already be very unhappy at your new job.

    Or is it just that MollyC’s comment hit a little too close to home?

    I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no position to judge other people. And as for RSS vs. e-mail: perhaps you should get out more.

    I doubt RSS has the necessary traction in smalltown USA, but I’m *positive* it hasn’t in the rest of the world, say, in Belgium where I live.

    And “offer both”? Uh, yeah sure. Complicate things right from the start.

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30. Robert: you said something like “I didn’t like the person I was becoming” when you were getting to be unhappy at Microsoft.

    If your writing is anything to go by you must already be very unhappy at your new job.

    Or is it just that MollyC’s comment hit a little too close to home?

    I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no position to judge other people. And as for RSS vs. e-mail: perhaps you should get out more.

    I doubt RSS has the necessary traction in smalltown USA, but I’m *positive* it hasn’t in the rest of the world, say, in Belgium where I live.

    And “offer both”? Uh, yeah sure. Complicate things right from the start.

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31. >If your writing is anything to go by you must already be very unhappy at your new job.

    I haven’t even started, really, and am on vacation. My first “real” day is August 14th. So, my writing tonight has almost nothing to do with my new job. Maybe the stress of a move and all that.

    >And as for RSS vs. e-mail: perhaps you should get out more.

    You sound a lot like the Atari guy I just linked to who thought personal computers weren’t gonna be important so told Woz and Jobs to go do that thing someplace else.

    Again, what is important about RSS is that it reaches influentials. Influentials are those people who drive society. You didn’t miss how my story went from 15 conversations with influentials to 180 newspapers around the world within 36 hours, right?

    There’s a reason why news about new companies doesn’t break from Montana very often (although, even there, everyone at the TechRanch says they use RSS).

    >I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no position to judge other people.

    And you are, right? Got it.

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32. >If your writing is anything to go by you must already be very unhappy at your new job.

    I haven’t even started, really, and am on vacation. My first “real” day is August 14th. So, my writing tonight has almost nothing to do with my new job. Maybe the stress of a move and all that.

    >And as for RSS vs. e-mail: perhaps you should get out more.

    You sound a lot like the Atari guy I just linked to who thought personal computers weren’t gonna be important so told Woz and Jobs to go do that thing someplace else.

    Again, what is important about RSS is that it reaches influentials. Influentials are those people who drive society. You didn’t miss how my story went from 15 conversations with influentials to 180 newspapers around the world within 36 hours, right?

    There’s a reason why news about new companies doesn’t break from Montana very often (although, even there, everyone at the TechRanch says they use RSS).

    >I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no position to judge other people.

    And you are, right? Got it.

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33. Really? Apple has, what, 5% market share? If that’s so successful then I’m sorry, I don’t see it.

    What’s BMW’s marketshare? You bought one anyway.

    Amiga used to have 20%+ marketshare in Europe. 5% marketshare is a huge achievement today, especially if the competition is a convicted monopolist that has spent decades proprietizing APIs, sabotaging third-party software and excluding competitors from entry into the market.

    Finally, size of marketshare is an unsatisfying measure of success – that’s why Microsoft employees are by and large such a miserable lot. The quality of the product and utility comes first. If that means niche market and 0.1% marketshare that’s fine. Good products with good management can be profitable even with that level of market penetration.

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34. Really? Apple has, what, 5% market share? If that’s so successful then I’m sorry, I don’t see it.

    What’s BMW’s marketshare? You bought one anyway.

    Amiga used to have 20%+ marketshare in Europe. 5% marketshare is a huge achievement today, especially if the competition is a convicted monopolist that has spent decades proprietizing APIs, sabotaging third-party software and excluding competitors from entry into the market.

    Finally, size of marketshare is an unsatisfying measure of success – that’s why Microsoft employees are by and large such a miserable lot. The quality of the product and utility comes first. If that means niche market and 0.1% marketshare that’s fine. Good products with good management can be profitable even with that level of market penetration.

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35. When I tried to read the comments at the Zune blog, I got 404 errors.

    The Zune blog is a disaster. Right in the second sentence, the link to the comingzune.com site is badly formed (not a complete URL like it’s supposed to be but a relative link). Bad form. Incompetence, really. Did the blogger fail to test his own post?

    The hard skills are important, perhaps even more important when any kind of mass media is involved.

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36. When I tried to read the comments at the Zune blog, I got 404 errors.

    The Zune blog is a disaster. Right in the second sentence, the link to the comingzune.com site is badly formed (not a complete URL like it’s supposed to be but a relative link). Bad form. Incompetence, really. Did the blogger fail to test his own post?

    The hard skills are important, perhaps even more important when any kind of mass media is involved.

    LikeLike

37. >I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing pages and I certainly don’t see a plethora of Apple blogs.

    Apple has RSS right on their home page. So does Microsoft’s home page.

    Hmmm, now I know a few things about Microsoft. The really good marketers get to work on the home page. The really crappy ones? They don’t.

    It seems to me that the good marketers at both Apple and Microsoft understand the importance of RSS.

    Not to mention that Microsoft’s biggest products next year will have RSS aggregators built into them (Office and Windows).

    LikeLike

38. >I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing pages and I certainly don’t see a plethora of Apple blogs.

    Apple has RSS right on their home page. So does Microsoft’s home page.

    Hmmm, now I know a few things about Microsoft. The really good marketers get to work on the home page. The really crappy ones? They don’t.

    It seems to me that the good marketers at both Apple and Microsoft understand the importance of RSS.

    Not to mention that Microsoft’s biggest products next year will have RSS aggregators built into them (Office and Windows).

    LikeLike

39. Anon: good points about marketshare.

    >What’s BMW’s marketshare?

    Of what? Luxury car sales? Based on the numbers of the things I see in Silicon Valley, quite high. But if you go to Montana you barely will find any.

    LikeLike

40. Anon: good points about marketshare.

    >What’s BMW’s marketshare?

    Of what? Luxury car sales? Based on the numbers of the things I see in Silicon Valley, quite high. But if you go to Montana you barely will find any.

    LikeLike

41. Heck, people PAY for email newsletters, the most-excellent majestic Mary Jo for one…and tons of finance and expert trend spotting types of email newsletters.

    In my best Weird Al Yoda Yoda voice…

    Remember, strength flows from the content. But beware, formats. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark medium as message path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Content creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.

    LikeLike

42. Heck, people PAY for email newsletters, the most-excellent majestic Mary Jo for one…and tons of finance and expert trend spotting types of email newsletters.

    In my best Weird Al Yoda Yoda voice…

    Remember, strength flows from the content. But beware, formats. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark medium as message path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Content creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.

    LikeLike

43. Do the links on Zune Insider Blog work for any of you? Two of three links in the first post don’t work and Permalink, Comments and TrackBack also don’t…

    I don’t care, if the offer RSS on Coming Zune or not… This crappy page doesn’t let me mute the music or skip the animation to come to the point of the “site”… Can’t skip? Close Tab and forget…

    LikeLike

44. Do the links on Zune Insider Blog work for any of you? Two of three links in the first post don’t work and Permalink, Comments and TrackBack also don’t…

    I don’t care, if the offer RSS on Coming Zune or not… This crappy page doesn’t let me mute the music or skip the animation to come to the point of the “site”… Can’t skip? Close Tab and forget…

    LikeLike

45. Hey Robert, this is probably just a cultural thing. Probably arrogance and incessant name-dropping go over a lot better in your neck of the woods.

    From over here it looks as if you’ve gone off on an extremely juvenile trolling trip.

    Why do I think that? It’s like refactoring, Robert. Bad smells. Like this typical exchange:

    >> I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no
    >> position to judge other people.
    > And you are, right? Got it.

    I agree with MollyC that you are in no position to judge people, and suddenly that means I *am* in such a position?

    For all you know, I may be. And even if I weren’t: why should I be? If I say I don’t like the food in a restaurant, do I necessarily have to be a good cook?

    You’re acting the bully, Robert. It was fun while you were at Microsoft, kicking against the shins and all that. It isn’t so much fun anymore now.

    Running the risk of sounding incredibly condescending here, and no patronising intended, but: copy-paste your last couple of dozen replies to comments (heck, couple of hundred), and have someone you know and respect read them.

    And then listen to what those people will tell you, and act on their advice.

    LikeLike

46. Hey Robert, this is probably just a cultural thing. Probably arrogance and incessant name-dropping go over a lot better in your neck of the woods.

    From over here it looks as if you’ve gone off on an extremely juvenile trolling trip.

    Why do I think that? It’s like refactoring, Robert. Bad smells. Like this typical exchange:

    >> I’m sorry, but you really *are* in no
    >> position to judge other people.
    > And you are, right? Got it.

    I agree with MollyC that you are in no position to judge people, and suddenly that means I *am* in such a position?

    For all you know, I may be. And even if I weren’t: why should I be? If I say I don’t like the food in a restaurant, do I necessarily have to be a good cook?

    You’re acting the bully, Robert. It was fun while you were at Microsoft, kicking against the shins and all that. It isn’t so much fun anymore now.

    Running the risk of sounding incredibly condescending here, and no patronising intended, but: copy-paste your last couple of dozen replies to comments (heck, couple of hundred), and have someone you know and respect read them.

    And then listen to what those people will tell you, and act on their advice.

    LikeLike

47. The original point of my post was about Microsoft trying to be cool… and almost making it–but not quite. I give them points for heading in the right direction. Robert latched onto the RSS thing, but that wasn’t in my post.

    Email signups are less trustworthy than RSS. I can delete a feed and know it’s been deleted. Once a megacorporation has your email, however, you can never be sure what will be done with it.

    It was Zune’s marketing message that bugged me, not whether the signup was email or RSS. If I hadn’t been so turned off by the forced “We’re all friends” BS, I might have signed up. I’ve got Gmail. I can label, filter, and trash anything I want and not worry about it.

    Microsoft hasn’t learned their lessons even in traditional marketing, let alone the kind of real person unmarketing that we’re shifting to. The Office 2K7 team’s blogs are great! And yet Microsoft goes and does this lame old-school marketing thing–ironically for a product aimed at an audience that would respond better to blogs. They should’ve given Zune to a bunch of kids and let ’em loose on MySpace and YouTube: influencers, indeed.

    And Robert, I have been reading your blog for a couple years, now, and I think your comments on this post seem a bit harsh. We all have bad days, but you’ll be a better man if own up to it.

    LikeLike

48. The original point of my post was about Microsoft trying to be cool… and almost making it–but not quite. I give them points for heading in the right direction. Robert latched onto the RSS thing, but that wasn’t in my post.

    Email signups are less trustworthy than RSS. I can delete a feed and know it’s been deleted. Once a megacorporation has your email, however, you can never be sure what will be done with it.

    It was Zune’s marketing message that bugged me, not whether the signup was email or RSS. If I hadn’t been so turned off by the forced “We’re all friends” BS, I might have signed up. I’ve got Gmail. I can label, filter, and trash anything I want and not worry about it.

    Microsoft hasn’t learned their lessons even in traditional marketing, let alone the kind of real person unmarketing that we’re shifting to. The Office 2K7 team’s blogs are great! And yet Microsoft goes and does this lame old-school marketing thing–ironically for a product aimed at an audience that would respond better to blogs. They should’ve given Zune to a bunch of kids and let ’em loose on MySpace and YouTube: influencers, indeed.

    And Robert, I have been reading your blog for a couple years, now, and I think your comments on this post seem a bit harsh. We all have bad days, but you’ll be a better man if own up to it.

    LikeLike

49. Sorry: I meant to say “if you own up to it.”

    LikeLike

50. Sorry: I meant to say “if you own up to it.”

    LikeLike

51. I agree that MS isn’t the best marketing company, I think in terms of computer marketing Apple always seems to do a dam good job.

    And like many I prefer RSS over email my email should be kept for stuff I care about from people I care about…RSS is a less intrusive but more active way of informing.

    LikeLike

52. I agree that MS isn’t the best marketing company, I think in terms of computer marketing Apple always seems to do a dam good job.

    And like many I prefer RSS over email my email should be kept for stuff I care about from people I care about…RSS is a less intrusive but more active way of informing.

    LikeLike

53. When you buy a MacBook, it comes with Safari. Safari has an RSS reader. Apple pre-populates the RSS reader with multiple feeds, accessed by buttons at the top of the browser window. One of the RSS feeds is for Apple Hot News. The other is for the last 25 albums released on iTunes.

    http://www.apple.com/rss/

    Perhaps not everyone who buys a Mac realizes they subscribe to feeds… 🙂 but I think Apple gets RSS.

    > I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing
    > pages
    

    Look harder. 🙂 Go to http://www.apple.com, click “iPod/iTunes”, scroll down until you see “Top 10 Songs RSS.”

    
    > I agree with MollyC that you are in no position to
    > judge people, and suddenly that means I *am* in
    > such a position?
    

    Um, telling someone they’re incapable of judging something is a judgement, isn’t it?

    This reminds of that point in Episode III where Anakin and Obi-Wan are about to do the Good vs. Evil showdown, and Obi-Wan says, “ONLY a Sith speaks in absolutes!” Which, uh, was an absolute…

    No wonder Anakin hated the Jedi. LOL

    Oh wait — when you tell someone they’re not in a position to do something, it’s merely a “trenchant observation,” right? And when someone else does the same thing, it’s a “judgement.” Did I get it right? Just want to make sure I’m playing this game by the right rules.

    > Running the risk of sounding incredibly
    > condescending here, and no patronising intended,
    > but: copy-paste your last couple of dozen replies
    > to comments (heck, couple of hundred), and have
    > someone you know and respect read them. And then
    > listen to what those people will tell you, and act
    > on their advice.

    Robert: you are going way too easy on these clowns. LOL

    Not that I’m judging you or anything. 😉

    LikeLike

54. When you buy a MacBook, it comes with Safari. Safari has an RSS reader. Apple pre-populates the RSS reader with multiple feeds, accessed by buttons at the top of the browser window. One of the RSS feeds is for Apple Hot News. The other is for the last 25 albums released on iTunes.

    http://www.apple.com/rss/

    Perhaps not everyone who buys a Mac realizes they subscribe to feeds… 🙂 but I think Apple gets RSS.

    > I don’t see RSS on Apple’s iPod marketing
    > pages
    

    Look harder. 🙂 Go to http://www.apple.com, click “iPod/iTunes”, scroll down until you see “Top 10 Songs RSS.”

    
    > I agree with MollyC that you are in no position to
    > judge people, and suddenly that means I *am* in
    > such a position?
    

    Um, telling someone they’re incapable of judging something is a judgement, isn’t it?

    This reminds of that point in Episode III where Anakin and Obi-Wan are about to do the Good vs. Evil showdown, and Obi-Wan says, “ONLY a Sith speaks in absolutes!” Which, uh, was an absolute…

    No wonder Anakin hated the Jedi. LOL

    Oh wait — when you tell someone they’re not in a position to do something, it’s merely a “trenchant observation,” right? And when someone else does the same thing, it’s a “judgement.” Did I get it right? Just want to make sure I’m playing this game by the right rules.

    > Running the risk of sounding incredibly
    > condescending here, and no patronising intended,
    > but: copy-paste your last couple of dozen replies
    > to comments (heck, couple of hundred), and have
    > someone you know and respect read them. And then
    > listen to what those people will tell you, and act
    > on their advice.

    Robert: you are going way too easy on these clowns. LOL

    Not that I’m judging you or anything. 😉

    LikeLike

55. Dude just because audiences in conferences you speak at raise their hands when asked if they have RSS feeds is no indicator whatsoever. You speak primarily in echo chambers. As for influencers, I would contend the influencers that made the iPod prominent weren’t “geeks” but were were peers. All the “cool kids” started buying iPods (and I would venture say weren’t your definiton of geeks), then all the non-cool kids wanted them, too.

    I could speak at a music trade industry confernence and likely have very few people raise their hands when asked about RSS.

    There’s a reason Microsoft used Billboard to “announce” Zune. How many Billboard readers do you think use RSS or know what it is?

    You are sticking your head further and further up your RSS ass.

    LikeLike

56. Dude just because audiences in conferences you speak at raise their hands when asked if they have RSS feeds is no indicator whatsoever. You speak primarily in echo chambers. As for influencers, I would contend the influencers that made the iPod prominent weren’t “geeks” but were were peers. All the “cool kids” started buying iPods (and I would venture say weren’t your definiton of geeks), then all the non-cool kids wanted them, too.

    I could speak at a music trade industry confernence and likely have very few people raise their hands when asked about RSS.

    There’s a reason Microsoft used Billboard to “announce” Zune. How many Billboard readers do you think use RSS or know what it is?

    You are sticking your head further and further up your RSS ass.

    LikeLike

57. @20. Now your just being pedantic. You’er smart enought to know what question was being asked. It was overall marketshare. Either that or you really have problems understanding what you read. Just cuz you see a lot of luxury cars in your little SV world is no indication of any type of market share. I could drive around here in Beverly Hills and Brentwood and conclude that Mercedes, Bentley and Rolls Royce had considerable market share. You realize how idiotic that conclusion is, right. So, answer the question honestly: how much overall marketshare does BMW have?

    Just like your illogical conclusions about RSS adoption in the populartion. Again, you speak in echo chambers. Try this: get on stage at the next Eminem concert and ask how many people use RSS. Or go to a Billy Graham revival and ask how many people use RSS. Or get on the microphone at the start of the Pennslyvania 500 tomorrow and ask how many people use RSS.

    BTW, I see no RSS feed on the NASCAR home page. How in the HELL did they get so popular without it?

    and, no RSS feed on NFL.COM, them most popular sport in the US.

    No RSS feed on the World Cup home page, but how many people watched the World Cup

    And finally, NO RSS feed on the BMW home page! How in the HELL did you ever know to buy one?????

    LikeLike

58. @20. Now your just being pedantic. You’er smart enought to know what question was being asked. It was overall marketshare. Either that or you really have problems understanding what you read. Just cuz you see a lot of luxury cars in your little SV world is no indication of any type of market share. I could drive around here in Beverly Hills and Brentwood and conclude that Mercedes, Bentley and Rolls Royce had considerable market share. You realize how idiotic that conclusion is, right. So, answer the question honestly: how much overall marketshare does BMW have?

    Just like your illogical conclusions about RSS adoption in the populartion. Again, you speak in echo chambers. Try this: get on stage at the next Eminem concert and ask how many people use RSS. Or go to a Billy Graham revival and ask how many people use RSS. Or get on the microphone at the start of the Pennslyvania 500 tomorrow and ask how many people use RSS.

    BTW, I see no RSS feed on the NASCAR home page. How in the HELL did they get so popular without it?

    and, no RSS feed on NFL.COM, them most popular sport in the US.

    No RSS feed on the World Cup home page, but how many people watched the World Cup

    And finally, NO RSS feed on the BMW home page! How in the HELL did you ever know to buy one?????

    LikeLike

59. Agreed. RSS has legs. Now, just introduce me to a good RSS reader and those legs can do some walkin’.

    LikeLike

60. Agreed. RSS has legs. Now, just introduce me to a good RSS reader and those legs can do some walkin’.

    LikeLike

61. ? they are marketeers. Of course they won’t learn.

    At any rate, the name is “Zune” eh? I haven’t been keeping up with the news. But with the name, the logo and the product pictures I can tell it is going to tank.

    LikeLike

62. ? they are marketeers. Of course they won’t learn.

    At any rate, the name is “Zune” eh? I haven’t been keeping up with the news. But with the name, the logo and the product pictures I can tell it is going to tank.

    LikeLike

63. Most customers and consumers I run into have no idea what RSS is. Email subscriptions to newsletters, etc are still a smart way to communicate content – in parallel to offering RSS.

    RSS implementation and ease of use has a long ways to go – until it gets to that point, dual delivery is very smart. At GottaBeMobile.com, we are looking into email notifications about new content we publish.

    LikeLike

64. Most customers and consumers I run into have no idea what RSS is. Email subscriptions to newsletters, etc are still a smart way to communicate content – in parallel to offering RSS.

    RSS implementation and ease of use has a long ways to go – until it gets to that point, dual delivery is very smart. At GottaBeMobile.com, we are looking into email notifications about new content we publish.

    LikeLike

65. Rob: I’m not making the case that everyone has switched over to RSS. I’m making the case that your most passionate and influential users are already using RSS.

    LikeLike

66. Rob: I’m not making the case that everyone has switched over to RSS. I’m making the case that your most passionate and influential users are already using RSS.

    LikeLike

67. Oooh, oooh, can I try one?

    Get on stage at a Billy Graham revival and ask how many people were at the Eminem concert last night.

    Grab the microphone at the next NASCAR event and ask how many people have below average IQs. NO ONE will raise their hand. You see? That means the percentage of people with below average IQs is effectively zero.

    Go to McDonald’s and order a hamburger, fries, and RSS. Do they have RSS? NO!!! Then order just a hamburger. Did they use RSS to make your hamburger? NO!!!!

    Until McDonald’s uses RSS to make hamburgers, I think we can safely conclude that it’s not of any importance to anyone.

    I rest my case.

    (…how was that?)

    LikeLike

68. Oooh, oooh, can I try one?

    Get on stage at a Billy Graham revival and ask how many people were at the Eminem concert last night.

    Grab the microphone at the next NASCAR event and ask how many people have below average IQs. NO ONE will raise their hand. You see? That means the percentage of people with below average IQs is effectively zero.

    Go to McDonald’s and order a hamburger, fries, and RSS. Do they have RSS? NO!!! Then order just a hamburger. Did they use RSS to make your hamburger? NO!!!!

    Until McDonald’s uses RSS to make hamburgers, I think we can safely conclude that it’s not of any importance to anyone.

    I rest my case.

    (…how was that?)

    LikeLike

69. “Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here?”

    Robert: read your comment back to yourself slowly…and think about the last time that someone tried to impress you with such logic. In the “King and I”, the character played by Yul Brinner declares that he is the smartest man in the world because he owns some large amount of books. It is the same logic as your comment and appears just as stupid to the rest of us.

    being an influential only makes it that much easier to alienate the long tail (known as your readers). You’ve got to do a better job of balancing the down sides of being an influential. Trashing people for stating what seems obvious to most of us seems counterproductive to your goal of…umm…influencing people..

    Perhaps a large number of your readers were bullied in school and are sensing that familiar feeling. In a sense, you have become the bully (at least in your comments section) and there clearly is a growing number of your readers that aren’t liking that. You can only apologize for such behavior so many times before permanently alienating your readership.

    Booger

    LikeLike

70. “Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here?”

    Robert: read your comment back to yourself slowly…and think about the last time that someone tried to impress you with such logic. In the “King and I”, the character played by Yul Brinner declares that he is the smartest man in the world because he owns some large amount of books. It is the same logic as your comment and appears just as stupid to the rest of us.

    being an influential only makes it that much easier to alienate the long tail (known as your readers). You’ve got to do a better job of balancing the down sides of being an influential. Trashing people for stating what seems obvious to most of us seems counterproductive to your goal of…umm…influencing people..

    Perhaps a large number of your readers were bullied in school and are sensing that familiar feeling. In a sense, you have become the bully (at least in your comments section) and there clearly is a growing number of your readers that aren’t liking that. You can only apologize for such behavior so many times before permanently alienating your readership.

    Booger

    LikeLike

71. Booger: you have an awesome point. But, then, I do listen to people who’ve done their homework and become expert on a topic. I guess what you’re saying is there should be no hierarchy in the world, right? Well, sorry, that’s just simply wrong.

    I look around to the bloggers I read. I don’t care about whether they are arrogant or not. I care about whether they are expert on the topic they are writing about.

    But, you’re right. It’s arrogant on my part. That’s OK. There are plenty of people who are very arrogant, but who have lots of trust.

    My son, for instance, totally loves Steve Jobs. But Steve is well-known for being totally arrogant. The thing is, he also turns out to be right more often than not.

    Hence: arrogance is just noise that we have to work through. The real question on the table is “which idea is best?”

    You’re allowed to call my idea rotten. I’m allowed to say back why I think your idea is rotten.

    The market will decide all on its own who is right.

    LikeLike

72. Booger: you have an awesome point. But, then, I do listen to people who’ve done their homework and become expert on a topic. I guess what you’re saying is there should be no hierarchy in the world, right? Well, sorry, that’s just simply wrong.

    I look around to the bloggers I read. I don’t care about whether they are arrogant or not. I care about whether they are expert on the topic they are writing about.

    But, you’re right. It’s arrogant on my part. That’s OK. There are plenty of people who are very arrogant, but who have lots of trust.

    My son, for instance, totally loves Steve Jobs. But Steve is well-known for being totally arrogant. The thing is, he also turns out to be right more often than not.

    Hence: arrogance is just noise that we have to work through. The real question on the table is “which idea is best?”

    You’re allowed to call my idea rotten. I’m allowed to say back why I think your idea is rotten.

    The market will decide all on its own who is right.

    LikeLike

73. Thread Insanity Recap:

    MOLLYC: I’m subscribed to probably 250 RSS feeds (maybe more). But I only check 5 of them on a daily basis. I have no clue what’s going on in the other 245 feeds.

    In other words, “I subscribe to 250 magazines and newspapers, but I only read 5 of them.”

    ROBERT: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.

    Scoble forgot to add the “;-)” here.

    MOLLYC: Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”. Come down off your high horse. Celebrity has gone to your head. You are in NO position to judge me as to how I subscribe to RSS feeds, email mailing lists, newsgroups, or anything else.

    In other words, asking the question, “why stay subscribed?” is arrogant. If someone says they do something retarded, like subscribe to a bunch of things they don’t read, you must NEVER EVER QUESTION that. Also, Scoble is in no position to judge MollyC, but MollyC can easily judge Scoble.

    ROBERT: Sorry, I’m just going off of your own words. You say you subscribe to RSS feeds, but then forget them, but you stay involved with your email. I find that to be bizarre behavior. I should have been more inquisitive rather than nonplussed, sorry. Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here? I’m trying to tell you that — based on my experiences — you’re wrong. You’re trying to tell me you’re right. Yes, our egos are clashing. That’s OK, it’s part of finding out who’s right. At the end of the day one of us will be shown to be right. Maybe it’s you. I can accept that. But I’ve done my homework and been around the world talking with both industry insiders and everyday users and RSS is kicking ass and taking no prisoners.

    In other words, “We disagree, but I think I know something about this topic.”

    Oh, and Robert: you were inquisitive. You specifically asked her, “why stay subscribed?” Whereas I would have just called her an idiot for subscribing to stuff she doesn’t read. (But that’s just me.)

    BOOGER: Perhaps a large number of your readers were bullied in school and are sensing that familiar feeling. In a sense, you have become the bully (at least in your comments section) and there clearly is a growing number of your readers that aren’t liking that. You can only apologize for such behavior so many times before permanently alienating your readership.

    In other words, “I have psychoanalyzed the mental state of your readership, and your readership has been emotionally traumatized by bullies, and because this is YOUR problem and not THEIRS, you should not intimidate any of them by implying that you know more than they do on any subject whatsoever. Implying that you know more than someone else is bullying.”

    I say, permanently alienating idiots is a Good Thing.

    (But that’s just me.)

    LikeLike

74. Thread Insanity Recap:

    MOLLYC: I’m subscribed to probably 250 RSS feeds (maybe more). But I only check 5 of them on a daily basis. I have no clue what’s going on in the other 245 feeds.

    In other words, “I subscribe to 250 magazines and newspapers, but I only read 5 of them.”

    ROBERT: if you subscribe to RSS and don’t check them, then why stay subscribed? In email it all comes into one place and you gotta deal with it. It makes you less productive. But, if you’re into being less productive that’s up to you.

    Scoble forgot to add the “;-)” here.

    MOLLYC: Your question had a very arrogant tone BTW. You have no idea who I am or whether I’m “productive”. Come down off your high horse. Celebrity has gone to your head. You are in NO position to judge me as to how I subscribe to RSS feeds, email mailing lists, newsgroups, or anything else.

    In other words, asking the question, “why stay subscribed?” is arrogant. If someone says they do something retarded, like subscribe to a bunch of things they don’t read, you must NEVER EVER QUESTION that. Also, Scoble is in no position to judge MollyC, but MollyC can easily judge Scoble.

    ROBERT: Sorry, I’m just going off of your own words. You say you subscribe to RSS feeds, but then forget them, but you stay involved with your email. I find that to be bizarre behavior. I should have been more inquisitive rather than nonplussed, sorry. Have you spoken with more than 4,000 people about this topic? Have you blogged about it for years? So, who’s arrogant here? I’m trying to tell you that — based on my experiences — you’re wrong. You’re trying to tell me you’re right. Yes, our egos are clashing. That’s OK, it’s part of finding out who’s right. At the end of the day one of us will be shown to be right. Maybe it’s you. I can accept that. But I’ve done my homework and been around the world talking with both industry insiders and everyday users and RSS is kicking ass and taking no prisoners.

    In other words, “We disagree, but I think I know something about this topic.”

    Oh, and Robert: you were inquisitive. You specifically asked her, “why stay subscribed?” Whereas I would have just called her an idiot for subscribing to stuff she doesn’t read. (But that’s just me.)

    BOOGER: Perhaps a large number of your readers were bullied in school and are sensing that familiar feeling. In a sense, you have become the bully (at least in your comments section) and there clearly is a growing number of your readers that aren’t liking that. You can only apologize for such behavior so many times before permanently alienating your readership.

    In other words, “I have psychoanalyzed the mental state of your readership, and your readership has been emotionally traumatized by bullies, and because this is YOUR problem and not THEIRS, you should not intimidate any of them by implying that you know more than they do on any subject whatsoever. Implying that you know more than someone else is bullying.”

    I say, permanently alienating idiots is a Good Thing.

    (But that’s just me.)

    LikeLike

75. >I say, permanently alienating idiots is a Good Thing.

    Heheh, Karim, my mistake was in trying to do your job. 🙂

    I always love your writing, even when the idiot alienation is aimed my way.

    LikeLike

76. >I say, permanently alienating idiots is a Good Thing.

    Heheh, Karim, my mistake was in trying to do your job. 🙂

    I always love your writing, even when the idiot alienation is aimed my way.

    LikeLike

77. I’m not sure that choosing a solution that 90% or more of internet users have heard of and are familiar with could be called “rotten” or even “mildly mutually exclusive” of RSS. I’d venture to say that there isn’t even a right and wrong in this case…just two “differents”.

    The noise that you speak of seems to be misdirecting the message that is being received. By your post above, I’d swear that you are saying that email lists are “wrong” and RSS is “right”. However, I suspect that the point that you are trying to make is somewhat different (and correct my paraphrasing if I am wrong): “Influentials tend to use RSS and companies wont be able to keep influentials informed because they generally prefer RSS to keep up with technology rather than email lists.”

    Your readers have a wide range of experiences and many might well be considered influentials in their own right…regardless of if you’ve heard of them or not. If nothing else, each reader has 2-3 friends that can be influenced….even a booger like me. We as readers understand that you know your own preferences and have had untold conversations with influentials…so you likely have some weight to the paraphrased argument. But, that weight doesn’t exist when the perception is that it’s being used to uphold an argument of good/bad that simply doesnt exist.

    booger

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78. I’m not sure that choosing a solution that 90% or more of internet users have heard of and are familiar with could be called “rotten” or even “mildly mutually exclusive” of RSS. I’d venture to say that there isn’t even a right and wrong in this case…just two “differents”.

    The noise that you speak of seems to be misdirecting the message that is being received. By your post above, I’d swear that you are saying that email lists are “wrong” and RSS is “right”. However, I suspect that the point that you are trying to make is somewhat different (and correct my paraphrasing if I am wrong): “Influentials tend to use RSS and companies wont be able to keep influentials informed because they generally prefer RSS to keep up with technology rather than email lists.”

    Your readers have a wide range of experiences and many might well be considered influentials in their own right…regardless of if you’ve heard of them or not. If nothing else, each reader has 2-3 friends that can be influenced….even a booger like me. We as readers understand that you know your own preferences and have had untold conversations with influentials…so you likely have some weight to the paraphrased argument. But, that weight doesn’t exist when the perception is that it’s being used to uphold an argument of good/bad that simply doesnt exist.

    booger

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79. Pingback: Name that Zune - A Frog in the Valley - Technology Intelligence

80. @34. Clever, but inane. Is RSS important to some people? sure. Not saying it isn’t. But Scoble seems to again be making this a two valued argument. He’s said or implied numerours times that marketers are idiots for not putting RSS on their web sites. Well, he managed to buy a BMW with no RSS on its web site. How did that happen? The other examples I gave were of businesses and industries that seem to be surviving quite well without RSS being a part of their marketing strategy. I’m sure I can some up with plenty more if you like.

    We had these same arguments 10 years ago about those that didn’t see the value of getting on the email train. Some eventually saw the value, others didn’t. I’m sure a huge majority of those that didn’t are still in business and dong quite well. Would all the email newsletter subscibers to ExxonMobile, Citigroup, Chevron, AIG, ConocoPhilips please stand up, please stand up! Just to randomly name a few companies at the top of the F500 list. How DO they manage to be so profitable without RSS? It’s mystery! It’s a mystery wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma! Would you like more examples of companies being successful without RSS in their marketing strategy?

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81. @34. Clever, but inane. Is RSS important to some people? sure. Not saying it isn’t. But Scoble seems to again be making this a two valued argument. He’s said or implied numerours times that marketers are idiots for not putting RSS on their web sites. Well, he managed to buy a BMW with no RSS on its web site. How did that happen? The other examples I gave were of businesses and industries that seem to be surviving quite well without RSS being a part of their marketing strategy. I’m sure I can some up with plenty more if you like.

    We had these same arguments 10 years ago about those that didn’t see the value of getting on the email train. Some eventually saw the value, others didn’t. I’m sure a huge majority of those that didn’t are still in business and dong quite well. Would all the email newsletter subscibers to ExxonMobile, Citigroup, Chevron, AIG, ConocoPhilips please stand up, please stand up! Just to randomly name a few companies at the top of the F500 list. How DO they manage to be so profitable without RSS? It’s mystery! It’s a mystery wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma! Would you like more examples of companies being successful without RSS in their marketing strategy?

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82. I think that the major way to reach agenda setters (the phrase we learned in my j-school days for what Robert refers to as “influencers’) is still mainstream media. The articles about Zune in the WaPo, NYT and other major newspapers and broadcast media will get agenda setters interested. BUT, there has to be a transition from them to the general population. That is where blogs and RSS feeds come into to play.

    In regard to the RSS v. email controversy, I think that many of us experienced Net heads have become protective of our ‘real’ email accounts. We either are reluctant to give out the addresses or direct anything we are not committed to to little used accounts. So, to reach the Net savvy, RSS feeds are, indeed, the better idea.

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83. I think that the major way to reach agenda setters (the phrase we learned in my j-school days for what Robert refers to as “influencers’) is still mainstream media. The articles about Zune in the WaPo, NYT and other major newspapers and broadcast media will get agenda setters interested. BUT, there has to be a transition from them to the general population. That is where blogs and RSS feeds come into to play.

    In regard to the RSS v. email controversy, I think that many of us experienced Net heads have become protective of our ‘real’ email accounts. We either are reluctant to give out the addresses or direct anything we are not committed to to little used accounts. So, to reach the Net savvy, RSS feeds are, indeed, the better idea.

    LikeLike

84. Things spread from the edges to the mainstream virally. We trust recommendations of our friends. Things do not spread when they are carpet-bombed directly into the mainstream. We mistrust that, and rightly so.

    Email went from edge to mainstream, and RSS is doing the same. Heck, it’s the story of the whole damn interwebs.

    Zune would have done better if it had started at the edge and been allowed to grow toward the center. Maybe Microsoft wouldn’t have had a great holiday sales season this year, but in two years they would be flying off the shelves.

    Too late! They already dropped their bomb and ruined any chance of that.

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85. Things spread from the edges to the mainstream virally. We trust recommendations of our friends. Things do not spread when they are carpet-bombed directly into the mainstream. We mistrust that, and rightly so.

    Email went from edge to mainstream, and RSS is doing the same. Heck, it’s the story of the whole damn interwebs.

    Zune would have done better if it had started at the edge and been allowed to grow toward the center. Maybe Microsoft wouldn’t have had a great holiday sales season this year, but in two years they would be flying off the shelves.

    Too late! They already dropped their bomb and ruined any chance of that.

    LikeLike

86. Robert, FWIW some Microsoft marketers are listening to you. I’ve read your book twice now and its really given me much to think about and has had an impact in my thinking on how I want to reach out. I’ll be curious if you notice once the campaigns begin in earnest later this year.

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87. Robert, FWIW some Microsoft marketers are listening to you. I’ve read your book twice now and its really given me much to think about and has had an impact in my thinking on how I want to reach out. I’ll be curious if you notice once the campaigns begin in earnest later this year.

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88. Umm wasn’t this about the Zuned or rather Zuned Out? And it de-evolutionary descends into yet another RSS ‘will heal the sick, cure cancer and raise the dead’, Scoble pitch up. It’s tired even fighting that absurd twist of logic. Obviously he’s content in the sherr illusion, as it keeps him in the ‘influential’ spot. So all a waste of words…

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89. Umm wasn’t this about the Zuned or rather Zuned Out? And it de-evolutionary descends into yet another RSS ‘will heal the sick, cure cancer and raise the dead’, Scoble pitch up. It’s tired even fighting that absurd twist of logic. Obviously he’s content in the sherr illusion, as it keeps him in the ‘influential’ spot. So all a waste of words…

    LikeLike

90. This is a crazy waste of words. If they have a Zune blog (crappy or no) they have an RSS feed (someone geeky enough to even know the Zune existed can find the blog). As for influencers, RSS is a silly geeky thing. They can include it or not, but the mainstream users that buy $300 ipods or $400 Zunes will make their decision on what their friends and actors and rappers are using, and what doesn’t suck in their own experience. Apple has enormous mindshare here.

    MS is going to have trouble getting traction with this. Their Xbox adventure is hardly an unqualified success. And a new hardware venture of this type is really problematic. This is an expensive way to tilt at windmills.

    It’s time for MS shareholders to stage an intervention before MS really screws up. Not that billions wasted on MSN chasing AOL and xbox and Zune couldn’t have been better spent by stockholders, but MS hasn’t really identified and pursued the right opportunities even in their own markets (Groove, Bungie was purchased, PalmPilot was first, Symbian still more popular, Mysql, etc.).

    The really troubling thing is not that MS is trying new opportunities and spending a lot on them. It’s how they’re identifying opportunities: money. They don’t have a killer idea for a new ipod, they haven’t even settled on a set of wifi/networking/community features, so it’s not like they’re playtesting and saying, “This is a billion dollar idea, guys, we have to do this”. They’re just fed up with their hardware and content partners and in their hubris, they’re convinced they can do a better job. But being rich doesn’t make up for execution (as we see with both Sony and MS in the console wars). They’re just letting their paranoia lead them into dumb ideas, attention-grabbing acts basically. If you don’t have your hardware in hand, polished and finished, and playtested with basically everyone in Redmond, you have no idea if you can be more successful than Samsung or Sandisk, and in fact you should have large doubts. But not MS. They don’t even have a final version, but they’re convinced that their spending will make it the best ever.

    Not likely.

    LikeLike

91. This is a crazy waste of words. If they have a Zune blog (crappy or no) they have an RSS feed (someone geeky enough to even know the Zune existed can find the blog). As for influencers, RSS is a silly geeky thing. They can include it or not, but the mainstream users that buy $300 ipods or $400 Zunes will make their decision on what their friends and actors and rappers are using, and what doesn’t suck in their own experience. Apple has enormous mindshare here.

    MS is going to have trouble getting traction with this. Their Xbox adventure is hardly an unqualified success. And a new hardware venture of this type is really problematic. This is an expensive way to tilt at windmills.

    It’s time for MS shareholders to stage an intervention before MS really screws up. Not that billions wasted on MSN chasing AOL and xbox and Zune couldn’t have been better spent by stockholders, but MS hasn’t really identified and pursued the right opportunities even in their own markets (Groove, Bungie was purchased, PalmPilot was first, Symbian still more popular, Mysql, etc.).

    The really troubling thing is not that MS is trying new opportunities and spending a lot on them. It’s how they’re identifying opportunities: money. They don’t have a killer idea for a new ipod, they haven’t even settled on a set of wifi/networking/community features, so it’s not like they’re playtesting and saying, “This is a billion dollar idea, guys, we have to do this”. They’re just fed up with their hardware and content partners and in their hubris, they’re convinced they can do a better job. But being rich doesn’t make up for execution (as we see with both Sony and MS in the console wars). They’re just letting their paranoia lead them into dumb ideas, attention-grabbing acts basically. If you don’t have your hardware in hand, polished and finished, and playtested with basically everyone in Redmond, you have no idea if you can be more successful than Samsung or Sandisk, and in fact you should have large doubts. But not MS. They don’t even have a final version, but they’re convinced that their spending will make it the best ever.

    Not likely.

    LikeLike

92. Pingback: Marketing Nirvāna -- by Mario Sundar

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