As I go around Microsoft I ask teams "are you just gonna sell your participants/partners/users/customers down the river or are you gonna stand up for them?" Especially when someone is offering you money to do something anti-user?
This week when I was interviewing the Hotmail Windows Live Mail team they told me about a decision they had made to reduce the number of advertisments on their service from two to one.
Omar Shahine detailed this decision, and other things (he works on this team).
We are afraid to tell you is just how much money is left on the table by this decision, but it's a HUGE pile. More money than I would imagine (turns out that putting two ads on a page is very profitable). Why? Because we're scared of making shareholders even more skittish than they already are (our expenses are up and leaving many millions of dollars on the table doesn't seem like a smart decision, does it?)
But, this decision makes me happy. Ecstatic, actually. It means that the product teams have been given the green light to make the best-of-breed experiences for our customers and users.
The Windows Live Mail team just got a philosophy. Companies that have pro-participant philosophies, especially in the advertising age, will end up with bigger audiences and more profit in the end.
I tell ya, Live.com just got a whole lot easier for me to evangelize.
Does this matter? Windows Live Mail has 200 million unique accounts that have been signed into in the past 30 days. They block more than a billion spam messages every day. This is one of the most used Web Services in the world.
Their new site design is working really well for me. Much nicer than the existing Hotmail.
I love this team.
Scobleizer 
“They block more than a billion spam messages every day.”
They also block – bless those Symantec’s filters – tons of legitimate email. I should know…
One of my services is an email groups thing – like Yahoo Groups, I want to think that’s even better – they’re all confirmation round-trip opt-in subscriptions of course, and those filters are literally killing my service, because our Hotmail users (and we’ve got quite a few) simply don’t know when they’ll get the messages. And you know? No matter what we tell them, they still see it as *our* problem, not Hotmail’s. And since these are Symantec’s filters, the Hotmail team goes “take it with them”. Then, “them” do little to nothing…
Then there’s the BondedSender program. Sorry, I don’t have 30K spare to throw at them, and I won’t get into those guys’ [questionable] business model, because that’s another story.
Perhaps tomorrow I’ll love that team. Not today. Does anyone care?
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“They block more than a billion spam messages every day.”
They also block – bless those Symantec’s filters – tons of legitimate email. I should know…
One of my services is an email groups thing – like Yahoo Groups, I want to think that’s even better – they’re all confirmation round-trip opt-in subscriptions of course, and those filters are literally killing my service, because our Hotmail users (and we’ve got quite a few) simply don’t know when they’ll get the messages. And you know? No matter what we tell them, they still see it as *our* problem, not Hotmail’s. And since these are Symantec’s filters, the Hotmail team goes “take it with them”. Then, “them” do little to nothing…
Then there’s the BondedSender program. Sorry, I don’t have 30K spare to throw at them, and I won’t get into those guys’ [questionable] business model, because that’s another story.
Perhaps tomorrow I’ll love that team. Not today. Does anyone care?
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Nicer when you have a broadband connection I guess. Try today’s OWA with a dialup connection, and tell me how great it is. I’d like Microsoft to avoid sacrifying user experience to UI candy especially when the server can figure out what is the connection speed being used. By the way, what about adding this option in the profile so that someone can get their barebone fast UI whenever they are on dialup or any other slow connection?
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Nicer when you have a broadband connection I guess. Try today’s OWA with a dialup connection, and tell me how great it is. I’d like Microsoft to avoid sacrifying user experience to UI candy especially when the server can figure out what is the connection speed being used. By the way, what about adding this option in the profile so that someone can get their barebone fast UI whenever they are on dialup or any other slow connection?
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I also agree with the commenter above that the spam filter is not very good, a lot of false positives. And it does not seem to have improved over time (my account is three years old).
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I also agree with the commenter above that the spam filter is not very good, a lot of false positives. And it does not seem to have improved over time (my account is three years old).
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Also it’s nice to note that most of the Spam I in my hotmail account is from Microsoft, advertising their new shit. I really don’t mind them advertising. They ought to be ‘opt-in’ or at least have the option of opting-out. Yahoo does this too. I’ve yet to see a single email from google (aside from the one that told me “hi welcome to gmail” that started the account off). Maybe that’s what Google understands about email that yahoo and microsft don’t. That it’s OUR EMAIL. If we want to hear about the new microsoft thing, we’re going to go to Scoble. Or Channel 9. Or Memorandum. Or (insert your favorite microsoft fan/interest blog). Not our email. We’re going to sign up for notices on pages that say, “launching soon, put your email address in for a “one-time only email letting you know that we’ve launched” type box and be on your way. Emails from my webmail provider is not cool.
Scoble, I don’t mean the dissatisfaction to be directed at you – I’m just letting you know how I see it, and how I’ve experienced it. =) Live mail is turning out to very very interesting, as is Yahoo’s new mail system.
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Also it’s nice to note that most of the Spam I in my hotmail account is from Microsoft, advertising their new shit. I really don’t mind them advertising. They ought to be ‘opt-in’ or at least have the option of opting-out. Yahoo does this too. I’ve yet to see a single email from google (aside from the one that told me “hi welcome to gmail” that started the account off). Maybe that’s what Google understands about email that yahoo and microsft don’t. That it’s OUR EMAIL. If we want to hear about the new microsoft thing, we’re going to go to Scoble. Or Channel 9. Or Memorandum. Or (insert your favorite microsoft fan/interest blog). Not our email. We’re going to sign up for notices on pages that say, “launching soon, put your email address in for a “one-time only email letting you know that we’ve launched” type box and be on your way. Emails from my webmail provider is not cool.
Scoble, I don’t mean the dissatisfaction to be directed at you – I’m just letting you know how I see it, and how I’ve experienced it. =) Live mail is turning out to very very interesting, as is Yahoo’s new mail system.
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Hopefully it’s the advert down the side of the email they’re getting rid of… It normally makes the screen slightly too thin to read anything.
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Hopefully it’s the advert down the side of the email they’re getting rid of… It normally makes the screen slightly too thin to read anything.
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BenN yes it’s the skyscraper ad they are removing.
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BenN yes it’s the skyscraper ad they are removing.
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lemme see if I get this straight. 1) MS offers a FREE email service for which they get NO money directly from the user and they decide to leave money on the table in favor of a more usable FREE service? How does that benefit the shareholders? I agree, Robert, as a shareholder I’d be scratching my head all the way to the shareholders meeting. Where do they plan to make up this potential revenue source? Do they think that using Live will cause users to PAY for other MS software? 2) Some are complaining about the quality of the ant-spam service they get from a FREE email service? Again, you get what you PAY for!
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lemme see if I get this straight. 1) MS offers a FREE email service for which they get NO money directly from the user and they decide to leave money on the table in favor of a more usable FREE service? How does that benefit the shareholders? I agree, Robert, as a shareholder I’d be scratching my head all the way to the shareholders meeting. Where do they plan to make up this potential revenue source? Do they think that using Live will cause users to PAY for other MS software? 2) Some are complaining about the quality of the ant-spam service they get from a FREE email service? Again, you get what you PAY for!
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Scoble, does the team have data that suggests the uptake in more users signing up for Live will make up for the loss in number of ads?
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Scoble, does the team have data that suggests the uptake in more users signing up for Live will make up for the loss in number of ads?
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RBA, please drop me a mail about your delivery problems and I can get you in touch with the right folks to resolve this.
You can get my mail from my blog.
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RBA, please drop me a mail about your delivery problems and I can get you in touch with the right folks to resolve this.
You can get my mail from my blog.
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The anecdote about ‘leaving money on the table’ was already done in a Time cover article about Google earlier this year. An engineer was showing the founders how they could make millions more with a single ad and the founders turned it down for usability reasons.
This post seems kind of like ‘me too’ on Microsoft’s part. ‘We can turn down $100 million too because we LOVE our users so so much!’
User experience is great, but MSFT is a business, not a charity. MSN is still run like a dot-com from the bad old days: spends like crazy and is not profitable.
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The anecdote about ‘leaving money on the table’ was already done in a Time cover article about Google earlier this year. An engineer was showing the founders how they could make millions more with a single ad and the founders turned it down for usability reasons.
This post seems kind of like ‘me too’ on Microsoft’s part. ‘We can turn down $100 million too because we LOVE our users so so much!’
User experience is great, but MSFT is a business, not a charity. MSN is still run like a dot-com from the bad old days: spends like crazy and is not profitable.
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Whoha. I’ve followed Robert advice and decided to try Live Domains beta. So ? What I got – I was asked 3 or 4 times if I would like to subscribe to mailing lists, twice to activate my mail box and on separate page to enter captcha.
You need to work hard to be able understand customer.
a) No needs to ask several times if I would like to signup for spam
b) Why I need to see this “Activate” page ? I’ve just created my box and was clearly willing to start using it. BTW, Why such a restrictive once in 30 days policy ? Have you ever heard about long vacations ?
c) What the point of showing me captcha if I’m only one user from this IP and not requesting new accounts in bulk from your servers ?
P.S> Nothing personal. Keep evangelizing – This is not end of world – they still have to improve.
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Whoha. I’ve followed Robert advice and decided to try Live Domains beta. So ? What I got – I was asked 3 or 4 times if I would like to subscribe to mailing lists, twice to activate my mail box and on separate page to enter captcha.
You need to work hard to be able understand customer.
a) No needs to ask several times if I would like to signup for spam
b) Why I need to see this “Activate” page ? I’ve just created my box and was clearly willing to start using it. BTW, Why such a restrictive once in 30 days policy ? Have you ever heard about long vacations ?
c) What the point of showing me captcha if I’m only one user from this IP and not requesting new accounts in bulk from your servers ?
P.S> Nothing personal. Keep evangelizing – This is not end of world – they still have to improve.
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If I open Windows Live Mail on an 800 x 600 window, the right side ad will take around 20% of the window width, but if I make the window a little bit narrower, this add will get dynamically hidden! I have just learned this. I was checking it with the idea to suggest doing exactly this to the team.
So, if they can dynamically hide it (for instance after showing it for a few seconds), I do not fully understand why they are getting rid of it.
However, what is really a pain is the top ad. On 800 x 600, this ad will take around 35% of the window’s height! You better scale it down or hide it dynamically too.
Unless users always maximize their windows, Live Mail user interface can really be very difficult to use (too much scrolling and scrolling sometimes does not work on the reading pane).
Also, consider that maximizing the window is not always an option. What about an Origami Device? What about a small remote desktop window?
Besides this, they can keep both ads if they do what it takes so they do not get in users way.
They could also learn form Yahoo. The do a lot of overlay advertising (I think using flash), but still it is not very annoying.
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If I open Windows Live Mail on an 800 x 600 window, the right side ad will take around 20% of the window width, but if I make the window a little bit narrower, this add will get dynamically hidden! I have just learned this. I was checking it with the idea to suggest doing exactly this to the team.
So, if they can dynamically hide it (for instance after showing it for a few seconds), I do not fully understand why they are getting rid of it.
However, what is really a pain is the top ad. On 800 x 600, this ad will take around 35% of the window’s height! You better scale it down or hide it dynamically too.
Unless users always maximize their windows, Live Mail user interface can really be very difficult to use (too much scrolling and scrolling sometimes does not work on the reading pane).
Also, consider that maximizing the window is not always an option. What about an Origami Device? What about a small remote desktop window?
Besides this, they can keep both ads if they do what it takes so they do not get in users way.
They could also learn form Yahoo. The do a lot of overlay advertising (I think using flash), but still it is not very annoying.
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I am glad that WLMAil team is at least taking steps to deal with the advertising problem. I would rather have the top banner removed since it is by far the biggest hinderance when the reading pane configuration is set to “off” or “bottom”.
What is of most concern to me however is this bit from the a Cnet article:
“To recoup some of the revenue from the lost ad, Microsoft is looking to sell advertising that would appear at the bottom of e-mail messages sent using the service. In the past, Microsoft has included its own promotional messages, but Microsoft has had talks with some big-name advertisers about buying that prime real estate.”
So, the already annyoing ads by MS at the bottom are set to become even more instrusive? Borrow from Peter to pay Paul…
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I am glad that WLMAil team is at least taking steps to deal with the advertising problem. I would rather have the top banner removed since it is by far the biggest hinderance when the reading pane configuration is set to “off” or “bottom”.
What is of most concern to me however is this bit from the a Cnet article:
“To recoup some of the revenue from the lost ad, Microsoft is looking to sell advertising that would appear at the bottom of e-mail messages sent using the service. In the past, Microsoft has included its own promotional messages, but Microsoft has had talks with some big-name advertisers about buying that prime real estate.”
So, the already annyoing ads by MS at the bottom are set to become even more instrusive? Borrow from Peter to pay Paul…
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Never going back to hotmail/whatever they end up calling it. They bummped me off when I was on a month long vacation, lost all my mail and all the support does is waive the agreement I clicked “I Agree” on and then gives me back my account minus the saved email.
I’ll buy my own hard drive and take my chances next time
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Never going back to hotmail/whatever they end up calling it. They bummped me off when I was on a month long vacation, lost all my mail and all the support does is waive the agreement I clicked “I Agree” on and then gives me back my account minus the saved email.
I’ll buy my own hard drive and take my chances next time
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hi,
I dont find any reason why i should switch to WindowsLive Mail.
Yahoo’s new interface is awesome, better ad placements and their UI rocks. May Be, WLMail team should try Yahoo’s new interface.
Also, the feature in Gmail, tells whether I am the only recipient or, one of many in to fields is too good, i dont want leave gmail.
I think, WLMail should do lot of ground work and make it better to make me re think, about switching over.
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hi,
I dont find any reason why i should switch to WindowsLive Mail.
Yahoo’s new interface is awesome, better ad placements and their UI rocks. May Be, WLMail team should try Yahoo’s new interface.
Also, the feature in Gmail, tells whether I am the only recipient or, one of many in to fields is too good, i dont want leave gmail.
I think, WLMail should do lot of ground work and make it better to make me re think, about switching over.
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Hey,
Live mail is good, but Yahoo mail is the best, I have a very good reason for that. I use Yahoo as the main email and subscribe to most of the tech sites, now the best part here is that Yahoo has all the spam in the spam box and hotmail half in spam and the other half in the inbox.
http://www.irin.co.uk
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Hey,
Live mail is good, but Yahoo mail is the best, I have a very good reason for that. I use Yahoo as the main email and subscribe to most of the tech sites, now the best part here is that Yahoo has all the spam in the spam box and hotmail half in spam and the other half in the inbox.
http://www.irin.co.uk
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“As I go around Microsoft I ask teams “are you just gonna sell your participants/partners/users/customers down the river or are you gonna stand up for them?””
Have you stopped by and asked this of the developers who wrote GDI+, and the ones responsible for System.Drawing? GDI+ “users” are still waiting around for fixes for things like the MeasureCharacterRanges() limitation that only allows 32 ranges to be measured at a time, various ClearType anomalies, Graphics.Save() and Graphics.Restore(), and the problem where drawing a portion of a bitmap in a pixel format other than the display format causes the whole thing to be converted to the screen format, instead of just the portion to be drawn. The System.Drawing wrapper doesn’t implement Graphics.DrawDriverString(), CachedBitmap, or gamma correction for path gradients, among other things. We can’t just drop to the native API for those things, because there is no access available to the native handles of the System.Drawing objects (except through “hacks”).
At least if MS is not planning to add new features to GDI+ and System.Drawing, will it please fix longstanding bugs, and make all GDI+’s features available through System.Drawing? (No, simply releasing Avalon is not a suitable substitute – unless you plan a public immediate-mode drawing layer.)
— A .NET developer (love the runtime, hate the problems with some of the APIs!)
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“As I go around Microsoft I ask teams “are you just gonna sell your participants/partners/users/customers down the river or are you gonna stand up for them?””
Have you stopped by and asked this of the developers who wrote GDI+, and the ones responsible for System.Drawing? GDI+ “users” are still waiting around for fixes for things like the MeasureCharacterRanges() limitation that only allows 32 ranges to be measured at a time, various ClearType anomalies, Graphics.Save() and Graphics.Restore(), and the problem where drawing a portion of a bitmap in a pixel format other than the display format causes the whole thing to be converted to the screen format, instead of just the portion to be drawn. The System.Drawing wrapper doesn’t implement Graphics.DrawDriverString(), CachedBitmap, or gamma correction for path gradients, among other things. We can’t just drop to the native API for those things, because there is no access available to the native handles of the System.Drawing objects (except through “hacks”).
At least if MS is not planning to add new features to GDI+ and System.Drawing, will it please fix longstanding bugs, and make all GDI+’s features available through System.Drawing? (No, simply releasing Avalon is not a suitable substitute – unless you plan a public immediate-mode drawing layer.)
— A .NET developer (love the runtime, hate the problems with some of the APIs!)
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Atlast, the ads have been reduced. People have been screaming for this. Now hopefully live starts functioning in Firefox too, this will give it a much much bigger boost. Design is good! Also, would be fantastic if they used a Bayesian Filter System like Akismet that is much more accurate!!
You were blogging about whether Microsoft was listening. This is a big test. Let’s see if user comments like this around millions of blogs, if not individually responded are noted down and some announcement is made. A good test.
And oh! People, you might be interested in this – “Are the Big Guys Listening? Wake up!”
~ CC
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Atlast, the ads have been reduced. People have been screaming for this. Now hopefully live starts functioning in Firefox too, this will give it a much much bigger boost. Design is good! Also, would be fantastic if they used a Bayesian Filter System like Akismet that is much more accurate!!
You were blogging about whether Microsoft was listening. This is a big test. Let’s see if user comments like this around millions of blogs, if not individually responded are noted down and some announcement is made. A good test.
And oh! People, you might be interested in this – “Are the Big Guys Listening? Wake up!”
~ CC
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What good is talkinga about this software? I have signed up with the BETA 94 times. Of those, I have responded to 64 emails from “hotmail staff” to sign up with windows live mail and how cool its going to be. i know how cool its going to be – i saw the kahuna video on channel 9 🙂
I have to ask. How low is the level of incompetance of MS marketing and msn development for that matter.
If MSN has no intention of ever putting people who are committed to trying the software in the program why on earth are you still allowing people to submit their name for the beta??? idiots.
If you have no intention of ever allowing people to try the software, why send them email asking them to sign up? not once, but 64 times. idiots.
If MSN doesn’t want to put anyone in the program, just tell us the program is closed. I would be ok with that (really) but I would appreciate the honesty and cander.
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What good is talkinga about this software? I have signed up with the BETA 94 times. Of those, I have responded to 64 emails from “hotmail staff” to sign up with windows live mail and how cool its going to be. i know how cool its going to be – i saw the kahuna video on channel 9 🙂
I have to ask. How low is the level of incompetance of MS marketing and msn development for that matter.
If MSN has no intention of ever putting people who are committed to trying the software in the program why on earth are you still allowing people to submit their name for the beta??? idiots.
If you have no intention of ever allowing people to try the software, why send them email asking them to sign up? not once, but 64 times. idiots.
If MSN doesn’t want to put anyone in the program, just tell us the program is closed. I would be ok with that (really) but I would appreciate the honesty and cander.
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I am not a developer, just a user of 10+ years and there are some aspects of Live Mail I have just hated. The second major renditon was better and the advertising stuff *is* better but I agree with the other posters that question the idea of leaving money on the table? Where does that leave me and my requests for a better interface?
Seriously, yahoo! rocks in a lot of ways and the Live Mail team shouldn’t be shy about responding in kind.
The one thing that really works WELL is Live Mail on my Treo 700. It is speedy and pretty well laid out.
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I am not a developer, just a user of 10+ years and there are some aspects of Live Mail I have just hated. The second major renditon was better and the advertising stuff *is* better but I agree with the other posters that question the idea of leaving money on the table? Where does that leave me and my requests for a better interface?
Seriously, yahoo! rocks in a lot of ways and the Live Mail team shouldn’t be shy about responding in kind.
The one thing that really works WELL is Live Mail on my Treo 700. It is speedy and pretty well laid out.
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my my score 95 and 65 touches. after dinner I got another spam from “hotmail staff” to sign up. the idiocy never ends…
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my my score 95 and 65 touches. after dinner I got another spam from “hotmail staff” to sign up. the idiocy never ends…
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I’m glad to hear they are dropping one of the ads. I just signed my wife’s aunt up for GMail because, at 1024×768, there isn’t enough real estate left for the user’s conent after the 2 ads on live mail. You know, my.yahoo.com is my home page for this very reason. 5+ years ago, MSN had too many ads and not enough content on their front page. Glad to hear MS is learning. Only took a half decade.
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I’m glad to hear they are dropping one of the ads. I just signed my wife’s aunt up for GMail because, at 1024×768, there isn’t enough real estate left for the user’s conent after the 2 ads on live mail. You know, my.yahoo.com is my home page for this very reason. 5+ years ago, MSN had too many ads and not enough content on their front page. Glad to hear MS is learning. Only took a half decade.
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Can’t stand Live Mail tbh, tried it since early on in the public beta, found it cumbersome and quite ugly.
Some things are just wrong. For example you can shift-click and ctrl-click to select messages, which is nice; but you can’t right-click to delete them, which isn’t. It’s not hard to disable standard right-click – MS did it on Windows Update years ago – and implement an alternative.
Then I swtiched to Firefox and it was game over.
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Can’t stand Live Mail tbh, tried it since early on in the public beta, found it cumbersome and quite ugly.
Some things are just wrong. For example you can shift-click and ctrl-click to select messages, which is nice; but you can’t right-click to delete them, which isn’t. It’s not hard to disable standard right-click – MS did it on Windows Update years ago – and implement an alternative.
Then I swtiched to Firefox and it was game over.
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So anyway I guess I’ll use my email account for Yahoo.ca since I can NO LONGER open my hotmail account since about 2 weeks after I switched to the mail beta. Isn’t it funny how yahoo has offer me the choice to switch back but hotmail has not? Or at least has not offered me the choice in a way that I can access it. I dont even know how to complain about this crap except find every site I can that comments about the beta and complain until I’m offered to switch back. Sorry if I seem a little harse but it’s been weeks, I have 46 UNREAD EMAILS, I’ve tried to log on NUMEROUS TIMES, on 2 DIFFERENT COMPUTERS and it just freezes up. I’ve also found other complaints about the account and am considering taking the spam I get with yahoo and only using that account, that is of course once I get access to my unread mail and contact list from hotmail so I can email all my contacts and tell them NOT to use the mail beta. If anyone knows how to switch back, PLEASE help me out!
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So anyway I guess I’ll use my email account for Yahoo.ca since I can NO LONGER open my hotmail account since about 2 weeks after I switched to the mail beta. Isn’t it funny how yahoo has offer me the choice to switch back but hotmail has not? Or at least has not offered me the choice in a way that I can access it. I dont even know how to complain about this crap except find every site I can that comments about the beta and complain until I’m offered to switch back. Sorry if I seem a little harse but it’s been weeks, I have 46 UNREAD EMAILS, I’ve tried to log on NUMEROUS TIMES, on 2 DIFFERENT COMPUTERS and it just freezes up. I’ve also found other complaints about the account and am considering taking the spam I get with yahoo and only using that account, that is of course once I get access to my unread mail and contact list from hotmail so I can email all my contacts and tell them NOT to use the mail beta. If anyone knows how to switch back, PLEASE help me out!
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I think that Windows Live Mail Beta is utter crap. All that comes up when i get into it, is “find in mail” “find in contacts” and an add down the left hand side of then screen. it is very annoying and i like the old one better! Does anyone know how to switch back?
HELP ME PLEASE, I”M DESPERATE!!!
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I think that Windows Live Mail Beta is utter crap. All that comes up when i get into it, is “find in mail” “find in contacts” and an add down the left hand side of then screen. it is very annoying and i like the old one better! Does anyone know how to switch back?
HELP ME PLEASE, I”M DESPERATE!!!
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Live Mail Beta is horrible. the service is clearly written as a .NET application with remoting, and the web front end often has issues talking to the application layer. Today, for example, I’ve been getting IIS errors advising to alter the web.config file to turn on verbose error reporting for over an hour now. my suggestion: stick with old-school Hotmail because it works.
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Live Mail Beta is horrible. the service is clearly written as a .NET application with remoting, and the web front end often has issues talking to the application layer. Today, for example, I’ve been getting IIS errors advising to alter the web.config file to turn on verbose error reporting for over an hour now. my suggestion: stick with old-school Hotmail because it works.
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i want to switch back to hotmail from windows live mail beta
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i want to switch back to hotmail from windows live mail beta
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I haaaate Live Mail with a passion. I have the exact same problem as someone above in that it won’t even let me log in! What good is an email service if it won’t let me read my emails, which are not starting to pile up. My god is it ever frustrating.
What’s worse is that I didn’t even realize that Hotmail/Live Mail had ads. Having had my account for over 6 years my account had never shown ads until I switched. Now I fear that as soon as I switch back (or figure out how to), they’ll still be there.
On that note, does anyone, ANNYYYONE, know how to switch back. PLEEASE, I want to read my email. Blast this windows garbage. I wish I had gmail.*sigh*
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I haaaate Live Mail with a passion. I have the exact same problem as someone above in that it won’t even let me log in! What good is an email service if it won’t let me read my emails, which are not starting to pile up. My god is it ever frustrating.
What’s worse is that I didn’t even realize that Hotmail/Live Mail had ads. Having had my account for over 6 years my account had never shown ads until I switched. Now I fear that as soon as I switch back (or figure out how to), they’ll still be there.
On that note, does anyone, ANNYYYONE, know how to switch back. PLEEASE, I want to read my email. Blast this windows garbage. I wish I had gmail.*sigh*
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I was hoping for good things from Live mail. Sadly, it’s no match for Yahoo, let alone Gmail. The screenspace for email is minimal in comparison to the others. I mean, Why do we have to have 3 columns? The standard 1 column, 2 rows set up give more width.
And the folders don’t work well – and dragging an email to a folder shows the highlight about 4 items above the cursor.
It’s just not very good. I do hope they fix these things.
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I was hoping for good things from Live mail. Sadly, it’s no match for Yahoo, let alone Gmail. The screenspace for email is minimal in comparison to the others. I mean, Why do we have to have 3 columns? The standard 1 column, 2 rows set up give more width.
And the folders don’t work well – and dragging an email to a folder shows the highlight about 4 items above the cursor.
It’s just not very good. I do hope they fix these things.
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thank you for your work
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thank you for your work
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to go back to the old hotmail
1. Click on options in windows live
2. Click the opt-out beta button
3. fill in the stupid ass survey and you are done!!!@
Yay HOTMAIL.
Enjoy
Chris
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to go back to the old hotmail
1. Click on options in windows live
2. Click the opt-out beta button
3. fill in the stupid ass survey and you are done!!!@
Yay HOTMAIL.
Enjoy
Chris
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nothing
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nothing
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Perfect pages… tnx
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Perfect pages… tnx
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just want to say that anything thats got to do with windows live is now screwed. spaces! everything…
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just want to say that anything thats got to do with windows live is now screwed. spaces! everything…
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THIS beta mail sucks bad
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THIS beta mail sucks bad
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i went yomake wendows live mail jest now because i am man the love in the wendows live mail
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i went yomake wendows live mail jest now because i am man the love in the wendows live mail
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Got no opt out or switch back or whatever button in my copy of Live Beta! I was going to give it a real try despite my distrust of Microsoft’s practice of handing out alphas as betas and betas as release copies. But it insists on being the default email software despite all computer and beta settings to the contrary. This wastes my time as the program slowly opens to show me an attached email from my Outlook Express mail. Very irritating. No advice I’ve found online so far, on the many sites that are discussing it, can tell me a way that works to either stop the beta from dominating my PC or removing it altogether. Can anyone help?
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Got no opt out or switch back or whatever button in my copy of Live Beta! I was going to give it a real try despite my distrust of Microsoft’s practice of handing out alphas as betas and betas as release copies. But it insists on being the default email software despite all computer and beta settings to the contrary. This wastes my time as the program slowly opens to show me an attached email from my Outlook Express mail. Very irritating. No advice I’ve found online so far, on the many sites that are discussing it, can tell me a way that works to either stop the beta from dominating my PC or removing it altogether. Can anyone help?
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I din’t like the windows live email…hotmail was better..so I decided to switch back.
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I din’t like the windows live email…hotmail was better..so I decided to switch back.
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I am not happy with Windows live Mail and was switched without my permission. People are telling me that they are receiving my e mail 7 times. I want to go back to Hot Mail so i don’t continue with these problems because it has been so frustrating.
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I am not happy with Windows live Mail and was switched without my permission. People are telling me that they are receiving my e mail 7 times. I want to go back to Hot Mail so i don’t continue with these problems because it has been so frustrating.
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Beta SUCKS
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Beta SUCKS
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I would like to know how to get ( read) the Originating IP of an email received in my windows live mail account
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I would like to know how to get ( read) the Originating IP of an email received in my windows live mail account
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I cannot opt out of Windows live hotmail, when i press switch, the message of “you are not allowed to view this page come out”, what can I do?
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I cannot opt out of Windows live hotmail, when i press switch, the message of “you are not allowed to view this page come out”, what can I do?
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I just want to thank you all for your insight and observations. I was considerring a switch to LiveMail, but I see how that would be a mistake. I’ll just stay with my trusted hotmail and yahoo accounts. Tanks again….I mean really.
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I just want to thank you all for your insight and observations. I was considerring a switch to LiveMail, but I see how that would be a mistake. I’ll just stay with my trusted hotmail and yahoo accounts. Tanks again….I mean really.
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I had msn hotmail and it changed to live on its on.
That would be find except for the fact non of my saved emails came with the new version and I am not able to recieve any new emails now? I want msn hotmail back .
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I had msn hotmail and it changed to live on its on.
That would be find except for the fact non of my saved emails came with the new version and I am not able to recieve any new emails now? I want msn hotmail back .
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I found this page looking for info on how the get the hell out of this Hotmail Live garbage and go back to the original, but guess what… it doesn’t look like you CAN go back anymore. I guess I will spend the next several days sending everyone I know my GMail address. A shame because I have had the same Hotmail addy for more years than I can recall; since the beginning. What the hell ever happened to “If it ain’t broke, DON’T FIX IT!!”?????
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I found this page looking for info on how the get the hell out of this Hotmail Live garbage and go back to the original, but guess what… it doesn’t look like you CAN go back anymore. I guess I will spend the next several days sending everyone I know my GMail address. A shame because I have had the same Hotmail addy for more years than I can recall; since the beginning. What the hell ever happened to “If it ain’t broke, DON’T FIX IT!!”?????
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What really really bugs te crap out of me is that the new Live Hotmail limits the number of custom folders you can create! That sucks cause I’ve got tons of emails from tons of people needed to be seperated. I need at least 40-50 folders, probabkly more. The old hotmail let me create as many as I wanted to. Now I try to create a new folder I get “You have reached your maximum limit of folders” God I hate this.
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What really really bugs te crap out of me is that the new Live Hotmail limits the number of custom folders you can create! That sucks cause I’ve got tons of emails from tons of people needed to be seperated. I need at least 40-50 folders, probabkly more. The old hotmail let me create as many as I wanted to. Now I try to create a new folder I get “You have reached your maximum limit of folders” God I hate this.
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I have used my hotmail account since 1999, I have over 1500 messages and needless to say I am very frustrated that I have to now go and use yahoo. I REALLY wanted to keep this email address, but no way. I will not see every day the crappy page that tells me what lindsay lohan did the last couple of days, that gets on my nerves. So if they cannot function without the crap their popularity will go down way below the email @myself.com, they are down the path of becoming infamous.
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I have used my hotmail account since 1999, I have over 1500 messages and needless to say I am very frustrated that I have to now go and use yahoo. I REALLY wanted to keep this email address, but no way. I will not see every day the crappy page that tells me what lindsay lohan did the last couple of days, that gets on my nerves. So if they cannot function without the crap their popularity will go down way below the email @myself.com, they are down the path of becoming infamous.
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I HATE WINDOWS LIVE . . . . I DID NOT SWITCH TO IT, I WAS SWITCHED AND I WANT TO BE SWITCHED BACK . . . PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I HATE WINDOWS LIVE . . . . I DID NOT SWITCH TO IT, I WAS SWITCHED AND I WANT TO BE SWITCHED BACK . . . PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I was automatically forced over to Windows Live – I logged in and looked for an option to switch back.. nothing.. I read the support and followed their instruction verbatim on how to opt out of the windows live beta – It lied … there is no option to opt out there is no choice – Guess I will be getting my 2nd email account ever in over 10 years or so..
The new windows live is riddled with problems – 100x more then hotmail had.
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I was automatically forced over to Windows Live – I logged in and looked for an option to switch back.. nothing.. I read the support and followed their instruction verbatim on how to opt out of the windows live beta – It lied … there is no option to opt out there is no choice – Guess I will be getting my 2nd email account ever in over 10 years or so..
The new windows live is riddled with problems – 100x more then hotmail had.
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There is a kind of work-around for the limits on the number of folders.
Obviously, some moron at Live Hotmail decided there ought to be a limit, but (and it is a big but), there cannot be a real limit, because the software has to accept folders imported from the old Hotmail, where there was no limit.
Windows Live Mail does not impose a limit, either. So, the workaround is to install the Windows Live Mail, where you can create folders to your heart’s content. The folders will appear in Live Hotmail on the web. You may not be able to create new folders in Live Hotmail, but you can re-name them.
Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do about the morons.
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There is a kind of work-around for the limits on the number of folders.
Obviously, some moron at Live Hotmail decided there ought to be a limit, but (and it is a big but), there cannot be a real limit, because the software has to accept folders imported from the old Hotmail, where there was no limit.
Windows Live Mail does not impose a limit, either. So, the workaround is to install the Windows Live Mail, where you can create folders to your heart’s content. The folders will appear in Live Hotmail on the web. You may not be able to create new folders in Live Hotmail, but you can re-name them.
Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do about the morons.
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take me back to my old hotmail how do i switch back
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take me back to my old hotmail how do i switch back
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they removed the “switch back” option. i hate Windows Live, but there’s no choice. windows live now forces everyone to leave the old hotmail!
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they removed the “switch back” option. i hate Windows Live, but there’s no choice. windows live now forces everyone to leave the old hotmail!
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This whole anti-user banner-ads-in-my-inbox-with-no-opt-out is a real BREACH of my PRIVACY! I can call telemarketers and have my number taken off their call lists, and I can opt out of ads coming to my snail mailbox. But not email??!! Please won’t someone tell me how to get rid of this banner ad situation? Otherwise I will have to waste my precious time updating my email in all the websites who have my addy.
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This whole anti-user banner-ads-in-my-inbox-with-no-opt-out is a real BREACH of my PRIVACY! I can call telemarketers and have my number taken off their call lists, and I can opt out of ads coming to my snail mailbox. But not email??!! Please won’t someone tell me how to get rid of this banner ad situation? Otherwise I will have to waste my precious time updating my email in all the websites who have my addy.
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In the old Hotmail, on the “Home” tab, it would show my 15 most recent unread e-mails from people in my contacts list. I found this to be very useful.
In the new Windows Live, I cannot find a way to display only unread e-mails. Am I missing something, or is there no way to display only unread e-mails?
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In the old Hotmail, on the “Home” tab, it would show my 15 most recent unread e-mails from people in my contacts list. I found this to be very useful.
In the new Windows Live, I cannot find a way to display only unread e-mails. Am I missing something, or is there no way to display only unread e-mails?
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windows live mail is a complete flop.
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windows live mail is a complete flop.
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During the initial Beta-testing of Hotmail-Terminator (aka Windows Live Mail), they (M$) had tried lure me and everybody else with such freebies that made no sense at the time. Being an IT professional myself, I tried their WLM 3 times and uninstalled 3 times. And each time I replied to them with hard-to-discard advise. I mentioned such things as:
– They were trying to grab more cash from me/you.
– They were trying to keep freshly-hired developers busy creating some crap.
– I told them that before Windows Live Mail, there existed a M$ product called either Outlook Live or Office Live (perhaps outlook live).
– I asked them, “In which way this new crap is live” and Hotmail is dead?
– Windows Live Mail did not function with Firefox well. They said they will fix it in the future. I am still waiting. They had their golden opportunity to score a marginal victory of Firefox; they relished it.
– I recommended that they study NetZero mail, which I still believe superior to any M$ Mail, dead or alive. It would still cheaper to pay some loyalties than developing this colossal crap called Live mail.
– I also recommende they look into FoxMail (a Chinesed-developed) POP e-mail client. FoxMail can also read Hotmail messages.
Then the all-humble B. Gates suppressed FoxMail’s Hotmail reading capability, as Yahoo did with YPOPS proxy client.
– If you remember, they took away the option of reading Hotmail with Outlook Express, but under pressure from veteran users, they reinstated Outlook Express’ capability.
After giving them such true criticism, you would think they would offer me a job, wouldn’t you? Tough luck. Instead they chose to drown in their own crap.
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During the initial Beta-testing of Hotmail-Terminator (aka Windows Live Mail), they (M$) had tried lure me and everybody else with such freebies that made no sense at the time. Being an IT professional myself, I tried their WLM 3 times and uninstalled 3 times. And each time I replied to them with hard-to-discard advise. I mentioned such things as:
– They were trying to grab more cash from me/you.
– They were trying to keep freshly-hired developers busy creating some crap.
– I told them that before Windows Live Mail, there existed a M$ product called either Outlook Live or Office Live (perhaps outlook live).
– I asked them, “In which way this new crap is live” and Hotmail is dead?
– Windows Live Mail did not function with Firefox well. They said they will fix it in the future. I am still waiting. They had their golden opportunity to score a marginal victory of Firefox; they relished it.
– I recommended that they study NetZero mail, which I still believe superior to any M$ Mail, dead or alive. It would still cheaper to pay some loyalties than developing this colossal crap called Live mail.
– I also recommende they look into FoxMail (a Chinesed-developed) POP e-mail client. FoxMail can also read Hotmail messages.
Then the all-humble B. Gates suppressed FoxMail’s Hotmail reading capability, as Yahoo did with YPOPS proxy client.
– If you remember, they took away the option of reading Hotmail with Outlook Express, but under pressure from veteran users, they reinstated Outlook Express’ capability.
After giving them such true criticism, you would think they would offer me a job, wouldn’t you? Tough luck. Instead they chose to drown in their own crap.
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Windows Live Mail is a big slow crap.
MS is getting a very crapy company
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Windows Live Mail is a big slow crap.
MS is getting a very crapy company
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Windows Live Mail is a great product, and I appreciate all the work that the folks have put into it. For years I did not want to let go of my Outlook client because I needed the features — today, I do not use a “fat client” at all. Everything I need is there in Windows Live Mail.
One of the best features, by far, is the ability to use my own domain with it. So instead of user@live.com I am user@robertstinnett.com.
Keep up the good work guys — Your Live portfolio is getting better all the time!
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Windows Live Mail is a great product, and I appreciate all the work that the folks have put into it. For years I did not want to let go of my Outlook client because I needed the features — today, I do not use a “fat client” at all. Everything I need is there in Windows Live Mail.
One of the best features, by far, is the ability to use my own domain with it. So instead of user@live.com I am user@robertstinnett.com.
Keep up the good work guys — Your Live portfolio is getting better all the time!
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Are you silly? Crazy? HOTMAIL users have been SOLD down the stream. I regrettably installed the “WINDOWS LIVE” without the advanced knowledge I would NOT be capable of keeping my HOTMAIL account with it. I can’t UN-install it. No program associations or program defaults will revert back and now all E-Mail built in features are incapable of working like send link by mail. Live comes up, not allowing my hotmail ID and the association will not revert. How can MSN abandon the PAID Hotmail customers???? Are you serious? IT SUCKS everything.
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Are you silly? Crazy? HOTMAIL users have been SOLD down the stream. I regrettably installed the “WINDOWS LIVE” without the advanced knowledge I would NOT be capable of keeping my HOTMAIL account with it. I can’t UN-install it. No program associations or program defaults will revert back and now all E-Mail built in features are incapable of working like send link by mail. Live comes up, not allowing my hotmail ID and the association will not revert. How can MSN abandon the PAID Hotmail customers???? Are you serious? IT SUCKS everything.
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What I want to know is if there is a way to revert back to the classic windows live, and if there isn’t, why not? The whole thing sucks, and it doesnt really do much. So what, it gets rid of 1 banner, they arent really too hard to put your mind around. And anyway, my internet is low and it takes years for the new windows live mail to load up. Up to 70% faster veiwing my ass. If there is a way of going back to the OLD hotmail, then PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!
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What I want to know is if there is a way to revert back to the classic windows live, and if there isn’t, why not? The whole thing sucks, and it doesnt really do much. So what, it gets rid of 1 banner, they arent really too hard to put your mind around. And anyway, my internet is low and it takes years for the new windows live mail to load up. Up to 70% faster veiwing my ass. If there is a way of going back to the OLD hotmail, then PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!
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How do I get back the old classic hotmail. The new live hotmail sucks, really bad. If I cannot go back is there something I can do to reroute hotmail email to another different email provider till all those that I deal with have my new email address. Thanks
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How do I get back the old classic hotmail. The new live hotmail sucks, really bad. If I cannot go back is there something I can do to reroute hotmail email to another different email provider till all those that I deal with have my new email address. Thanks
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We are waiting your response Scoble
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We are waiting your response Scoble
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I have to agree – the new version of WLM or WLH sucks big time. I think it only fair users are given the option – which as of this writing is no longer available – of reverting back to the classic version of Hotmail. If Yahoo can do it why can’t Hotmail??? I tried the new version of Yahoo mail, didn’t like it, clicked the link to revert back and wala…my account was returned to the classic version of Yahoo mail. Piece of cake! Come on … give the option back to us!
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I have to agree – the new version of WLM or WLH sucks big time. I think it only fair users are given the option – which as of this writing is no longer available – of reverting back to the classic version of Hotmail. If Yahoo can do it why can’t Hotmail??? I tried the new version of Yahoo mail, didn’t like it, clicked the link to revert back and wala…my account was returned to the classic version of Yahoo mail. Piece of cake! Come on … give the option back to us!
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Haven’t found a way to go back to classic hotmail, but I have been using a tool called “Hotmail Popper” from Custom Fit Software (search google for it if you like, I think it’s like $17.50 USD). This enables you to run a POP client like Eudora, Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Pegasus, etc., and get your Hotmail as if it were POP mail. Eliminates having to use WLM/WLH on your home PC, but if you travel and want to check in on hotmail from an internet cafe or PC that’s not your own, you’ll naturally still have to use the web client.
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Haven’t found a way to go back to classic hotmail, but I have been using a tool called “Hotmail Popper” from Custom Fit Software (search google for it if you like, I think it’s like $17.50 USD). This enables you to run a POP client like Eudora, Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Pegasus, etc., and get your Hotmail as if it were POP mail. Eliminates having to use WLM/WLH on your home PC, but if you travel and want to check in on hotmail from an internet cafe or PC that’s not your own, you’ll naturally still have to use the web client.
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