Walt likes Ask.com (my ego search disagrees)

Walt Mossberg likes Ask.com, says John Battelle.

Here's the first test I use to decide whether a search engine (that is relevancy based like Google, Yahoo, MSN, or Ask) deserves praise over Google: put in my last name and see if it ranks that properly. Why does that matter? Cause I have thousands of inbound links.

Ask does not measure up in this test (it still has my old blog at top of the page) and I can't find my new blog anywhere on the first page of Ask.com. Google almost gets it right (my old blog is #1, but my new blog is #2).

MSN gets it right!!!

Yahoo is similar to Google.

"You're an egotistical bahstahard," I can hear some of you saying.

Believe it or not, but this test seems to match other relevancy tests I've done. Try it yourself and see how you come out.

But, even worse, if a search engine can't get my name correct (there aren't many Scobles publishing on the Web) how can you expect it to get your searches correct?

By the way, I've been doing this ego search for more than seven years and this is the first time that Google has lost this battle and that MSN has won it.

Is MSN's relevancy getting better? Yes. Is Google vulnerable? Well, I won't go that far, but my ego search is one of the reasons I've been a Google advocate for so long (it was dramatically better than AltaVista and Yahoo in this search in the late 1990s).

But, Walt, this doesn't portend good things for Ask.com. To be included in the top three you've gotta be as good as Google. Ask isn't even in the same neighborhood yet.

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68 thoughts on “Walt likes Ask.com (my ego search disagrees)

  1. Maybe it has a different algorithm 🙂 It links to sites with style and substance 😉

    On a more serious note – Why don’t people talk about a9? I don’t use it, but I’m curious to know.

    I did your test there and found it to be on par with google.

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  2. Maybe it has a different algorithm 🙂 It links to sites with style and substance 😉

    On a more serious note – Why don’t people talk about a9? I don’t use it, but I’m curious to know.

    I did your test there and found it to be on par with google.

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  3. The reason that a9.com’s results are on par with Google’s is that, for the most part, the a9.com results ARE Google’s – the partnership is not yet severed. The first page of results appears completely identical for Scoble.

    Scobleizer.com is on the second page of Ask.com. On the Scoble query, I think that the main difference appears to be the age of the incoming links; naturally, Scoble’s old site still has more links than the newer site. I wouldn’t be surprised if Google bumps the newer site higher, either manually or by checking which largely-identical site is getting links that are more current. I agree that Google’s results are more useful for people looking for the current Scoble site.
    Querying my own name in both engines, though, gives me results that, objectively considered, favor Ask. My last name is pretty doggone unusual. Googling ‘klebe’ works out pretty well for me; on the basis of my nearly-unknown blog, I come out in third place. I think it’s well known, and obvious in this case, that Google overweights blogs in its results. Compare with Ask’s results for ‘Klebe’ – the first page references a well-published scholar, an artist, an actress who’s been on Law & Order, and so on. I have to say that that’s just plain better.
    Blogger ego searches fare very well on Google. Searches for well-known bloggers on Google will appear very accurate.
    Searches for less-well-known bloggers on Google produce results that overweight blogs. Not that I’m unhappy about that…
    If you want to see what Ask is great at, compare ‘Apache’ in Ask and Google, and think about which is going to be more useful to anyone but a technologist.

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  4. The reason that a9.com’s results are on par with Google’s is that, for the most part, the a9.com results ARE Google’s – the partnership is not yet severed. The first page of results appears completely identical for Scoble.

    Scobleizer.com is on the second page of Ask.com. On the Scoble query, I think that the main difference appears to be the age of the incoming links; naturally, Scoble’s old site still has more links than the newer site. I wouldn’t be surprised if Google bumps the newer site higher, either manually or by checking which largely-identical site is getting links that are more current. I agree that Google’s results are more useful for people looking for the current Scoble site.
    Querying my own name in both engines, though, gives me results that, objectively considered, favor Ask. My last name is pretty doggone unusual. Googling ‘klebe’ works out pretty well for me; on the basis of my nearly-unknown blog, I come out in third place. I think it’s well known, and obvious in this case, that Google overweights blogs in its results. Compare with Ask’s results for ‘Klebe’ – the first page references a well-published scholar, an artist, an actress who’s been on Law & Order, and so on. I have to say that that’s just plain better.
    Blogger ego searches fare very well on Google. Searches for well-known bloggers on Google will appear very accurate.
    Searches for less-well-known bloggers on Google produce results that overweight blogs. Not that I’m unhappy about that…
    If you want to see what Ask is great at, compare ‘Apache’ in Ask and Google, and think about which is going to be more useful to anyone but a technologist.

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  5. My ranking:

    Google
    Yahoo
    MSN
    Ask

    Why did I pick the way I did?

    Google has a REALLY clean interface…

    I picked Yahoo second because it’s also an easy URL to type… I don’t like it’s interface one bit and the results could use some work.

    MSN comes in third. It’s fast, but typing in the URL is a pain in the rear, and there is something about the interface that I just don’t like. Maybe it’s the slightly smaller font size that’s used, maybe it’s the shaded area at the top, or the location of the search bar on the results page… I just can’t put my finger on it.

    Ask is decent. I like it’s layout better than MSN and Yahoo — But not as good as Google. The results are okay, and the fact that I can preview a page seems cool. It comes in very close to MSN.

    Overall, MSN is headed in the right direction. They need a new URL and a new interface design and that would just about do it.

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  6. My ranking:

    Google
    Yahoo
    MSN
    Ask

    Why did I pick the way I did?

    Google has a REALLY clean interface…

    I picked Yahoo second because it’s also an easy URL to type… I don’t like it’s interface one bit and the results could use some work.

    MSN comes in third. It’s fast, but typing in the URL is a pain in the rear, and there is something about the interface that I just don’t like. Maybe it’s the slightly smaller font size that’s used, maybe it’s the shaded area at the top, or the location of the search bar on the results page… I just can’t put my finger on it.

    Ask is decent. I like it’s layout better than MSN and Yahoo — But not as good as Google. The results are okay, and the fact that I can preview a page seems cool. It comes in very close to MSN.

    Overall, MSN is headed in the right direction. They need a new URL and a new interface design and that would just about do it.

    Like

  7. I used your links to see what happened, then plugged “orcmid” into them. All but Ask wanted to know if I really meant “orchid” even though they had lots of its for “orcmid.” Only MSN avoided putting up adds assuming that I really did mean “orchid.”

    What’s particularly nice, and getting better since I started using nofollow on internal site links, is that the searches find non-redundant material, often quite different material, but it is always pure “orcmid.” How about that. A genuine six-letter Internet brand. I didn’t have anything like that in mind at the time, but it is certainly cool.

    Now I technorati tag “orcmid” too. But that’s because it is the most useful way of telling whether or not technorati has caught my taggings for a particular article. There are mystery discrepancies and this helps me look for patterns and see what it takes to have the tags be captured.

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  8. I used your links to see what happened, then plugged “orcmid” into them. All but Ask wanted to know if I really meant “orchid” even though they had lots of its for “orcmid.” Only MSN avoided putting up adds assuming that I really did mean “orchid.”

    What’s particularly nice, and getting better since I started using nofollow on internal site links, is that the searches find non-redundant material, often quite different material, but it is always pure “orcmid.” How about that. A genuine six-letter Internet brand. I didn’t have anything like that in mind at the time, but it is certainly cool.

    Now I technorati tag “orcmid” too. But that’s because it is the most useful way of telling whether or not technorati has caught my taggings for a particular article. There are mystery discrepancies and this helps me look for patterns and see what it takes to have the tags be captured.

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  9. I typed “Robert Scoble” in both Ask.com and Google. Ask.com returned your Wikipedia entry, alongwith your picture at the top of the search results. Though it didn’t have your wordpress blog listed in the top results.

    Ask.com has been my new default search engine for the past few days. It seems to be better than Google.

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  10. I typed “Robert Scoble” in both Ask.com and Google. Ask.com returned your Wikipedia entry, alongwith your picture at the top of the search results. Though it didn’t have your wordpress blog listed in the top results.

    Ask.com has been my new default search engine for the past few days. It seems to be better than Google.

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  11. My 2 cents. About a year ago I moved my blog from DotNetJunkies.com to CodeBetter.com. There’s some freak at Kimble.org, so “kimble” won’t get even close to me (mainly because there are a lot of Kimble’s with businesses). So I usually search on my name “Jay Kimble.” The results –

    Google and MSN list my old blog number 1 (BTW, there is no content at DotNetJunkies anymore except a single post pointing to my codebetter blog). I guess maybe I’m not as popular anymore (even though I have done more in this last year than I did the first year blogging). BTW, both do list my new blog second

    Oh yeah, ask.com? They hit it right on the number. Not only that but they ignore my old blog and even list some of the content from the old site that was moved.

    So I guess we’re not in agreement on the ego search…

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  12. My 2 cents. About a year ago I moved my blog from DotNetJunkies.com to CodeBetter.com. There’s some freak at Kimble.org, so “kimble” won’t get even close to me (mainly because there are a lot of Kimble’s with businesses). So I usually search on my name “Jay Kimble.” The results –

    Google and MSN list my old blog number 1 (BTW, there is no content at DotNetJunkies anymore except a single post pointing to my codebetter blog). I guess maybe I’m not as popular anymore (even though I have done more in this last year than I did the first year blogging). BTW, both do list my new blog second

    Oh yeah, ask.com? They hit it right on the number. Not only that but they ignore my old blog and even list some of the content from the old site that was moved.

    So I guess we’re not in agreement on the ego search…

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  13. you seem to be making a huge assumption that “PageRank” is the only way and the only right way … i dont know if there is another algorithm which can work better .. but you have thousands of inbound links should have no bearing on you having a great page. Its an algorithm google used and it worked. With the advent of new technology and newer algorithms, it may be rendered useless someday. So I think this test of yours can be very flawed in testing relevance. Relevance is a qualitative measure and the only good way is a human eye survey.

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  14. you seem to be making a huge assumption that “PageRank” is the only way and the only right way … i dont know if there is another algorithm which can work better .. but you have thousands of inbound links should have no bearing on you having a great page. Its an algorithm google used and it worked. With the advent of new technology and newer algorithms, it may be rendered useless someday. So I think this test of yours can be very flawed in testing relevance. Relevance is a qualitative measure and the only good way is a human eye survey.

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  15. Actually, my pet peeve is that I share a name with a former Prime Minister of Ireland. I should _not_ rank as highly as I do compared to him. (Especially on the Google.ie searches.)

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  16. a: true enough. But my old blog isn’t as relevant if you are searching for “Scoble” as my new one. Which is why this is an interesting relevance test.

    Garrett: true if you’re talking “real world” relevance. The problem is, how can an algorithm tell that? The only thing it can go on is web relevance. And there you are definitely higher than anyone who doesn’t blog, including the Prime Minister of Ireland.

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  17. a: true enough. But my old blog isn’t as relevant if you are searching for “Scoble” as my new one. Which is why this is an interesting relevance test.

    Garrett: true if you’re talking “real world” relevance. The problem is, how can an algorithm tell that? The only thing it can go on is web relevance. And there you are definitely higher than anyone who doesn’t blog, including the Prime Minister of Ireland.

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  18. Hmm, for my last name, both Google and MSN put the home page of my site at the top of the list.

    But Yahoo puts a specific page at the top, which is just some random photos I took at a bar in Spokane three years ago. I’m intrigued by the inconsistency, but can come up with no explanation. According to Google, there are no inbound links to that page, from anywhere. So why does Yahoo put it first?

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  19. Hmm, for my last name, both Google and MSN put the home page of my site at the top of the list.

    But Yahoo puts a specific page at the top, which is just some random photos I took at a bar in Spokane three years ago. I’m intrigued by the inconsistency, but can come up with no explanation. According to Google, there are no inbound links to that page, from anywhere. So why does Yahoo put it first?

    Like

  20. a9 has the best interface:

    http://generic.a9.com/robert%20scoble

    Click on that and then click on “wikipedia” and “images”. After that, all of your searches are very cleanly displayed with images and wikipedia (which I find is useful 90 percent of the time.)

    I don’t see live.com or msn.com being able to combine search results this way.

    Like

  21. a9 has the best interface:

    http://generic.a9.com/robert%20scoble

    Click on that and then click on “wikipedia” and “images”. After that, all of your searches are very cleanly displayed with images and wikipedia (which I find is useful 90 percent of the time.)

    I don’t see live.com or msn.com being able to combine search results this way.

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  22. Things I discovered trying this,

    MSN has by blog at #1 Yeah
    Google has it at #2 Eh
    There is a country music singer in Australia name Ian Muir
    One of the dwarf actors from Time Bandits was named Ian Muir
    A rugby player named Ian Muir beat up a talkshow host in the UK, proving that I’m not the only angry Scotsman named Ian Muir.

    Overall I have to agree that MSN seems to be more accurate for what I’m searching for than Google. However, the suggest feature that Google created has kept it as my primary search engine.

    Like

  23. Things I discovered trying this,

    MSN has by blog at #1 Yeah
    Google has it at #2 Eh
    There is a country music singer in Australia name Ian Muir
    One of the dwarf actors from Time Bandits was named Ian Muir
    A rugby player named Ian Muir beat up a talkshow host in the UK, proving that I’m not the only angry Scotsman named Ian Muir.

    Overall I have to agree that MSN seems to be more accurate for what I’m searching for than Google. However, the suggest feature that Google created has kept it as my primary search engine.

    Like

  24. Well, if you want the best search…

    I thought you were an evangelist. Can you imagine Jimmy Swaggart saying, “Well, yeah, if you want the BEST god, go to Vishnu…that guy has arms up the YINGYANG!”

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  25. Well, if you want the best search…

    I thought you were an evangelist. Can you imagine Jimmy Swaggart saying, “Well, yeah, if you want the BEST god, go to Vishnu…that guy has arms up the YINGYANG!”

    Like

  26. …and with his M$FT lineage, Scoble ensures that his MSN cronies get his “ego search” correct (relevancy) every time.

    That way he can point to his company’s trumped-up empirical/statistical accuracy vs. the search sites that have actual mindshare.

    Nice try, Scoble.

    Like

  27. …and with his M$FT lineage, Scoble ensures that his MSN cronies get his “ego search” correct (relevancy) every time.

    That way he can point to his company’s trumped-up empirical/statistical accuracy vs. the search sites that have actual mindshare.

    Nice try, Scoble.

    Like

  28. namehere: you misunderstand what a technology evangelist does. A TE is not a religious guy. A TE is paid to help developers build software for the next version of Windows (or whatever platform is next).

    One thing I’ve gotta do to be able to do my job well is to keep my credibility. So if Google is still better, I’m gonna say that it is. If my management doesn’t like that then they can keep working until it’s just so obvious that MSN is better than no one like Jay Bailey can say it isn’t.

    Jay: MSN doesn’t adjust its algorithms just for me. That’s why we have open comments here so you can report your own results. My ego search isn’t the only one getting better on MSN lately.

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  29. namehere: you misunderstand what a technology evangelist does. A TE is not a religious guy. A TE is paid to help developers build software for the next version of Windows (or whatever platform is next).

    One thing I’ve gotta do to be able to do my job well is to keep my credibility. So if Google is still better, I’m gonna say that it is. If my management doesn’t like that then they can keep working until it’s just so obvious that MSN is better than no one like Jay Bailey can say it isn’t.

    Jay: MSN doesn’t adjust its algorithms just for me. That’s why we have open comments here so you can report your own results. My ego search isn’t the only one getting better on MSN lately.

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  30. Well, “gada” may be (by a single standard–results) the “best” search. But it clearly isn’t the “best” by overall usability. I was an early adopter of google for the primary reason that it had a sparse interface. Altavista was similar, but google’s results seemed better–and so, that secondary consideration tipped the balance.

    My current favorite is a9, and when I sit at a coworker’s machine and they have…ugh…google as the default search, I’m screwed up. It’s all the interface.

    Now, msn–I take one look at it, and that’s enough. It’s clearly a mess. Live.com is better, but it has some ajax weirdness to it. If the windows (including the top search bar) could be manipulated like Windows OS Windows, I’d use it.

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  31. Well, “gada” may be (by a single standard–results) the “best” search. But it clearly isn’t the “best” by overall usability. I was an early adopter of google for the primary reason that it had a sparse interface. Altavista was similar, but google’s results seemed better–and so, that secondary consideration tipped the balance.

    My current favorite is a9, and when I sit at a coworker’s machine and they have…ugh…google as the default search, I’m screwed up. It’s all the interface.

    Now, msn–I take one look at it, and that’s enough. It’s clearly a mess. Live.com is better, but it has some ajax weirdness to it. If the windows (including the top search bar) could be manipulated like Windows OS Windows, I’d use it.

    Like

  32. Networking: Convergence on Wall Street

    Federal regulations and a stream of lawsuits by New York’s exceptionally ambitious Attorney General Elliott Spitzer seem to be having an unintended consequence on Wall Street — a surprising boom in deployment of new, converged networking technologies in the financial-services sector, experts tell United Press International’s Networking.
    Hemmed in by new requirements to keep every e-mail, instant message, and, perhaps, even all Voice over Internet Protocol conversations on file to ensure regulators in Washington that they don’t unduly propagandize stocks, Wall Street firms are buying new equipment to store diaries of their daily digital doings — forever. This is driving equipment sales at technology vendors and bringing about a convergence of networking and storage technologies. That, most assuredly, is not hype. By Gene Koprowski

    Like

  33. Networking: Convergence on Wall Street

    Federal regulations and a stream of lawsuits by New York’s exceptionally ambitious Attorney General Elliott Spitzer seem to be having an unintended consequence on Wall Street — a surprising boom in deployment of new, converged networking technologies in the financial-services sector, experts tell United Press International’s Networking.
    Hemmed in by new requirements to keep every e-mail, instant message, and, perhaps, even all Voice over Internet Protocol conversations on file to ensure regulators in Washington that they don’t unduly propagandize stocks, Wall Street firms are buying new equipment to store diaries of their daily digital doings — forever. This is driving equipment sales at technology vendors and bringing about a convergence of networking and storage technologies. That, most assuredly, is not hype. By Gene Koprowski

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  34. Dear Scobles,

    I just finished watching another episode from “Desperate Housewives”, where Lynette talked with her husband ex-girl friend, saying something like that “We are the sturdy team. I am sure no one will separate us.” On this the ex-girl answered:” if you are so sure, so why you came to say that to me”
    So, Scobles, you remind me Lynette, if you are so sure in Microsoft, why you are always checking it against Google and yahoo.
    I am personally devoted to Microsoft, adore Microsoft’s technology, and broaden knowledge of my colleagues by what I know. But with all this I don’t disgrace other competitors. Wicked Game, Scobles.

    Alfred,
    DBA, MSN (Microsoft Network), Israel.

    P.S. By the way, what I looked for, best results to my ego gave Yahoo.
    P.P.S. It looks by you April 1 joke, that you are obsessed by Google.Shame to you, really. And you are one of the judges of “Made in Express” Contest. How did they choose you,- a big mistake!

    Like

  35. Dear Scobles,

    I just finished watching another episode from “Desperate Housewives”, where Lynette talked with her husband ex-girl friend, saying something like that “We are the sturdy team. I am sure no one will separate us.” On this the ex-girl answered:” if you are so sure, so why you came to say that to me”
    So, Scobles, you remind me Lynette, if you are so sure in Microsoft, why you are always checking it against Google and yahoo.
    I am personally devoted to Microsoft, adore Microsoft’s technology, and broaden knowledge of my colleagues by what I know. But with all this I don’t disgrace other competitors. Wicked Game, Scobles.

    Alfred,
    DBA, MSN (Microsoft Network), Israel.

    P.S. By the way, what I looked for, best results to my ego gave Yahoo.
    P.P.S. It looks by you April 1 joke, that you are obsessed by Google.Shame to you, really. And you are one of the judges of “Made in Express” Contest. How did they choose you,- a big mistake!

    Like

  36. i agree. a9 has by far the best interface. they realise that looking for information on the web is not a single space problem. we are looking for different types of information and all combined on one page like a9 does is very very useful.

    Like

  37. i agree. a9 has by far the best interface. they realise that looking for information on the web is not a single space problem. we are looking for different types of information and all combined on one page like a9 does is very very useful.

    Like

  38. A search for a Microsoft employee on a Microsoft search engine gives better results than a different engine…. News at 11!

    Nice one Scoble.

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  39. A search for a Microsoft employee on a Microsoft search engine gives better results than a different engine…. News at 11!

    Nice one Scoble.

    Like

  40. Alfred: Google has most of the search engine usage. Yes, when you’re #3 you BETTER be obsessed with what the competition is doing in order to find a way to give our customers a better example.

    Jon: it’s not just my result. I just wanted people to start on their own path of self discovery.

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  41. Alfred: Google has most of the search engine usage. Yes, when you’re #3 you BETTER be obsessed with what the competition is doing in order to find a way to give our customers a better example.

    Jon: it’s not just my result. I just wanted people to start on their own path of self discovery.

    Like

  42. It seems that Google has been slipping lately and the ego test is not the only indicator. I remember when Yahoo was on the top of its game and then it was slowly corrupted by advertisers. Google is slowly being taken over in the same way. I have not used ASK.com since the early days of the internet, but here lately I have been using it and MSN more. I am getting slightly better relevancy, but I still use Google. The untold shame is that since Microsoft.com switched search engines for their site(now they use the MSN search technology)I have been forced to use Google to find the same pages I used to find with the search engine that was originally used for Microsoft.com. As someone newly into the tech field this has frustrated me to no end. The good news is that with IE7, at least I can stack multiple providers and search five search engines at once and tab between results and find hopefully within one of them the results I am looking for. Test this for relevancy between MSN and Google. Search for “using exchange server with share point services” and watch what both search engines pull up. One will give you an ad for using them together and the other will give you a technet article. Hmmm, which one is better?

    Like

  43. It seems that Google has been slipping lately and the ego test is not the only indicator. I remember when Yahoo was on the top of its game and then it was slowly corrupted by advertisers. Google is slowly being taken over in the same way. I have not used ASK.com since the early days of the internet, but here lately I have been using it and MSN more. I am getting slightly better relevancy, but I still use Google. The untold shame is that since Microsoft.com switched search engines for their site(now they use the MSN search technology)I have been forced to use Google to find the same pages I used to find with the search engine that was originally used for Microsoft.com. As someone newly into the tech field this has frustrated me to no end. The good news is that with IE7, at least I can stack multiple providers and search five search engines at once and tab between results and find hopefully within one of them the results I am looking for. Test this for relevancy between MSN and Google. Search for “using exchange server with share point services” and watch what both search engines pull up. One will give you an ad for using them together and the other will give you a technet article. Hmmm, which one is better?

    Like

  44. I’m not exactly the biggest fan of Mr. Scoble, but I have to admit that I frequently check my name in Feedster and Technorati too.

    I also check-in with my Google Analytics almost daily. Which is neat because I’ve discovered a surprising number of my blog visitors are from the UK.

    Like

  45. I’m not exactly the biggest fan of Mr. Scoble, but I have to admit that I frequently check my name in Feedster and Technorati too.

    I also check-in with my Google Analytics almost daily. Which is neat because I’ve discovered a surprising number of my blog visitors are from the UK.

    Like

  46. antwerp: no. Every search I do hits both MSN and Google (I have a special tool that was created for us to do that). So far I can’t say that MSN is good enough to use. It’s getting close, though, it sure has gotten better in the past six months. It used to be that Google won every search I did. Now MSN is winning about 30% of them. The ego search is an important one, though, to me cause it’s the one search I do every few months just to see what comes up and this is the first time MSN has won that particular search.

    Interesting times ahead for the search industry!

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  47. antwerp: no. Every search I do hits both MSN and Google (I have a special tool that was created for us to do that). So far I can’t say that MSN is good enough to use. It’s getting close, though, it sure has gotten better in the past six months. It used to be that Google won every search I did. Now MSN is winning about 30% of them. The ego search is an important one, though, to me cause it’s the one search I do every few months just to see what comes up and this is the first time MSN has won that particular search.

    Interesting times ahead for the search industry!

    Like

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