Ben Metcalfe (the guy who got Mena to swear on stage) writes about some issues that he feels the blogosphere needs to address. A few things. 1) I find I can hold real conversations with a video camera and/or a Web forum and/or Skype and record it and put it up. Maybe someone should give Ben an invite to audioblog.com?
As to persona representation, sorry, I don’t go with you on this one. When I worked at Fawcette I saw someone get fired for getting drunk at a party and hitting, inappropriately, on my coworkers. At NEC I saw someone get fired for posting racist remarks in a Web forum. Neither case was really an example of behavior that was connected to the company’s official business, but the reality is that if you work for a company and you’re identifyable with that company you’re ALWAYS representing that company.
Ben, you’re generally the only interaction I have with the BBC. Think about that for a moment. To ME you ARE the BBC. Well, you and Ian, who I meet at geek dinners in London.
If you do something that gets back to your boss and it sufficiently pisses him or her off there’s not going to be much you can do about it, sorry. Tell the BBC’s biggest advertiser to screw off and die at a party and see how long you’ll last there.
As to marketing, it’s a messy business. The one thing I look out for is transparency. We all know Hugh Macleod is getting paid to hawk Stormhoek. And that’s OK. If we didn’t know I’d be screaming left and right.
Just like you all know I work for Microsoft.
Scobleizer 
This sounds familiar to me 😉
Especially with at-will employment nowadays, if you’re paranoid about losing your job then you better make sure you’re squeaky clean all the time.
Then again… maybe you don’t care so much about your job and it’s more important to you that you be yourself 🙂
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This sounds familiar to me 😉
Especially with at-will employment nowadays, if you’re paranoid about losing your job then you better make sure you’re squeaky clean all the time.
Then again… maybe you don’t care so much about your job and it’s more important to you that you be yourself 🙂
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Mark: I’d check with your boss first. 🙂
Luckily I have a boss who thinks it’s important to be myself.
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Mark: I’d check with your boss first. 🙂
Luckily I have a boss who thinks it’s important to be myself.
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Doh. The BBC doesn’t have advertisers … but, um, I see your point.
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Doh. The BBC doesn’t have advertisers … but, um, I see your point.
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Homer: yikes, I forgot it’s public broadcasting over there.
OK, how about if you call a government official in charge of funding the BBC a “fat toad?” 😉
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Homer: yikes, I forgot it’s public broadcasting over there.
OK, how about if you call a government official in charge of funding the BBC a “fat toad?” 😉
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The BBC pretty much said Tony Blair lied about WMDs. Almost as good at the fat toad ida. The lack of advertisers allows them to be pretty blunt at times which is good. I’ve seen journalists and news orgs in Ireland edit or just remove stories as it would potentially upset advertisers. I know of advertisers who were entertained by some of the most repected newspapers when they asked for a journalist’s head.
Ben may be the BBC to you but for those living in the UK and paying the TV license fee there are a lot more people who they would class as being representatives of the Beeb.
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The BBC pretty much said Tony Blair lied about WMDs. Almost as good at the fat toad ida. The lack of advertisers allows them to be pretty blunt at times which is good. I’ve seen journalists and news orgs in Ireland edit or just remove stories as it would potentially upset advertisers. I know of advertisers who were entertained by some of the most repected newspapers when they asked for a journalist’s head.
Ben may be the BBC to you but for those living in the UK and paying the TV license fee there are a lot more people who they would class as being representatives of the Beeb.
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I think this is very much a cultural difference, Robert. Over here, you can’t just fire someone in the same way you can in the US – you have to have cause, and that cause has to involve their ability to do their job. Posting something company-confidential would be cause for firing: posting something that’s not related to your company would not, and you’d be able to sue your employer. Unless it was illegal, of course!
What’s more, think about what the consequences of your opinion would be: do you want a world consisting of company representatives? Is that the ideal of free speech that the blogosphere should aim for?
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I think this is very much a cultural difference, Robert. Over here, you can’t just fire someone in the same way you can in the US – you have to have cause, and that cause has to involve their ability to do their job. Posting something company-confidential would be cause for firing: posting something that’s not related to your company would not, and you’d be able to sue your employer. Unless it was illegal, of course!
What’s more, think about what the consequences of your opinion would be: do you want a world consisting of company representatives? Is that the ideal of free speech that the blogosphere should aim for?
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If Ben actually (A) drank alcohol and (B) held software and techie products to the same high standards he holds Stormhoek to, to I would take his ideas more seriously. Otherwise it’s just, like they say in Texas, “Big Hat, No Cattle”.
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If Ben actually (A) drank alcohol and (B) held software and techie products to the same high standards he holds Stormhoek to, to I would take his ideas more seriously. Otherwise it’s just, like they say in Texas, “Big Hat, No Cattle”.
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So Robert, when people decide, that due to you being their only ‘personal’ contact with Corporate MS, that MS is a rather petty, egotistical company that doesn’t care if they get things right as long as they get things first, and will happily withhold information if they’re mad at the source, and is maybe not terribly trustworthy, you’ll understand, right?
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So Robert, when people decide, that due to you being their only ‘personal’ contact with Corporate MS, that MS is a rather petty, egotistical company that doesn’t care if they get things right as long as they get things first, and will happily withhold information if they’re mad at the source, and is maybe not terribly trustworthy, you’ll understand, right?
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Yeah, the BBC is controlled by an independent board, which ultimately is appointed by government but has a lot off freedom. The head guys had to resign over the David Kelly affair, but this was over technicality (as was Blair’s exhoneration for misleading the country). But in general the checks and balances are about as good as you can expect.
In theory, it doesn’t shouldn’t work. Americans (in particular) and others are brainwashed into thinking that a government appointed tax-funded media giant is an abomination. In practice, it sort of does.
The US is run by Rupert Murdoch, Italy’s president is Berlosconi, Brazil is dominated by Globo etc. If the government doesn’t run the media, the media will run the government.
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Yeah, the BBC is controlled by an independent board, which ultimately is appointed by government but has a lot off freedom. The head guys had to resign over the David Kelly affair, but this was over technicality (as was Blair’s exhoneration for misleading the country). But in general the checks and balances are about as good as you can expect.
In theory, it doesn’t shouldn’t work. Americans (in particular) and others are brainwashed into thinking that a government appointed tax-funded media giant is an abomination. In practice, it sort of does.
The US is run by Rupert Murdoch, Italy’s president is Berlosconi, Brazil is dominated by Globo etc. If the government doesn’t run the media, the media will run the government.
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Well, sure it works better with video and even skype. But it’s only a conversation between invited parties, and it doesn’t persist.
Text has all those things going for it – it persists, is searchable, is cheap to produce, is easy to store and transmit, and faster to consume (text can be skim read, etc).
So, I’m not looking to dump text for conversation – I’m just asking if people can think of any additions we can add to make it easier to deliver tone, etc. Kind of like the way people use emoticons to represent sarcasm… maybe emoticons2.0, I don’t know!
BTW: I still feel quite strongly that when I’m “out of uniform” on my blog, than I’m not “the BBC” (as you put it).
You’ve written the disclaimer “Robert Scoble works at Microsoft (title: technical evangelist). Everything here, though, is his personal opinion and is not read or approved before it is posted.”
Which seems to me you are trying to do the same too – say that this is your blog and not representing Microsoft… Hows that’s any different to what I’ve been saying?
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Well, sure it works better with video and even skype. But it’s only a conversation between invited parties, and it doesn’t persist.
Text has all those things going for it – it persists, is searchable, is cheap to produce, is easy to store and transmit, and faster to consume (text can be skim read, etc).
So, I’m not looking to dump text for conversation – I’m just asking if people can think of any additions we can add to make it easier to deliver tone, etc. Kind of like the way people use emoticons to represent sarcasm… maybe emoticons2.0, I don’t know!
BTW: I still feel quite strongly that when I’m “out of uniform” on my blog, than I’m not “the BBC” (as you put it).
You’ve written the disclaimer “Robert Scoble works at Microsoft (title: technical evangelist). Everything here, though, is his personal opinion and is not read or approved before it is posted.”
Which seems to me you are trying to do the same too – say that this is your blog and not representing Microsoft… Hows that’s any different to what I’ve been saying?
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Point of fact Robert – Ben did not MAKE Mena swear on stage. She made that decision for herself.
I believe the problem is cultural. I’ve travelled all over the US as a journo and it is as much an issue for you as it is for us. San Fran liberalism v East Coast decorum sound familiar? Or what about those poor souls who actually live in Fargo – I’ve been there. Or the even poorer sould scraping their lives back in New Orleans?
In the UK we have a north/south divide. We have the Wars of the Roses (Lancs v Yorks 14??-1497 – Lancs lost and have had a resentment ever since – like 500 years.) And we have serious problems around race.
Don’t ask me about France and Spain where I’ve also lived.
in the UK, we value our freedoms so dearly that we don’t want to see them codified. If we did it would become ‘legal’ where we believe in DNA-infused traditions and values.
In real terms, it means we can split our identities away from those of our employer in the certain knowledge we’ll be perceived as ‘odd’ rather than disruptive. Today at least.
It is why I could not understand Mena saying: “Why would anyone blog something they wouldn’t say to their face?” In the UK, we tend not to operate with the face of Janus. What you see is what you get because we can smell a fake from 100 yards.
The BBC is a crazy ‘institution.’ It allows the likes of Ben (and his predecessor Tom) to do what I understand to be skunk works or as Ben Hammersley says ‘black-box projects.’ They deliver huge value to their wider, national community.
Oh yes – I can’t see a day Ben could ever be hauled up before some UK corporate headmaster on the charge of being an ‘asshole’ because he said Mena’s speech was ‘BS.’ If anything, he exposed the hypocrisy and irony of her words. Unless of course she was just having a bad day.
Ben could have a very lucrative career on oooh…The Daily Mirror. Or now that Piers Morgan is at PR Week…??
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Point of fact Robert – Ben did not MAKE Mena swear on stage. She made that decision for herself.
I believe the problem is cultural. I’ve travelled all over the US as a journo and it is as much an issue for you as it is for us. San Fran liberalism v East Coast decorum sound familiar? Or what about those poor souls who actually live in Fargo – I’ve been there. Or the even poorer sould scraping their lives back in New Orleans?
In the UK we have a north/south divide. We have the Wars of the Roses (Lancs v Yorks 14??-1497 – Lancs lost and have had a resentment ever since – like 500 years.) And we have serious problems around race.
Don’t ask me about France and Spain where I’ve also lived.
in the UK, we value our freedoms so dearly that we don’t want to see them codified. If we did it would become ‘legal’ where we believe in DNA-infused traditions and values.
In real terms, it means we can split our identities away from those of our employer in the certain knowledge we’ll be perceived as ‘odd’ rather than disruptive. Today at least.
It is why I could not understand Mena saying: “Why would anyone blog something they wouldn’t say to their face?” In the UK, we tend not to operate with the face of Janus. What you see is what you get because we can smell a fake from 100 yards.
The BBC is a crazy ‘institution.’ It allows the likes of Ben (and his predecessor Tom) to do what I understand to be skunk works or as Ben Hammersley says ‘black-box projects.’ They deliver huge value to their wider, national community.
Oh yes – I can’t see a day Ben could ever be hauled up before some UK corporate headmaster on the charge of being an ‘asshole’ because he said Mena’s speech was ‘BS.’ If anything, he exposed the hypocrisy and irony of her words. Unless of course she was just having a bad day.
Ben could have a very lucrative career on oooh…The Daily Mirror. Or now that Piers Morgan is at PR Week…??
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Ben don’t mention the BBC or Backstage on your blog and then you can act and say what you want on it.
State up front that the comments you make are not representative of the BBC and do not comment on the BBC. Robert is the (un)official blogger for Microsoft and everyone knows that. No blurred line here!
Also if you want to take the piss out of the speakers on a backchannel with other juveniles from Flock and RIYA then do not register for events as a BBC representative. I assume the BBC paid for your trip train/hotel to Les Blogs or did you pay for it personally? Therefore bottom-line you were the face/representative of the BBC like it or not.
Finally we spoke at the London Geek dinner, I told you to your face what I thought but lets leave it at that.
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Ben don’t mention the BBC or Backstage on your blog and then you can act and say what you want on it.
State up front that the comments you make are not representative of the BBC and do not comment on the BBC. Robert is the (un)official blogger for Microsoft and everyone knows that. No blurred line here!
Also if you want to take the piss out of the speakers on a backchannel with other juveniles from Flock and RIYA then do not register for events as a BBC representative. I assume the BBC paid for your trip train/hotel to Les Blogs or did you pay for it personally? Therefore bottom-line you were the face/representative of the BBC like it or not.
Finally we spoke at the London Geek dinner, I told you to your face what I thought but lets leave it at that.
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Of course the BBC does accept advertising, but in the style of many state sponsored organizations, they do it a way that is not very transparent. BBC has been accepting cash for product placements on their shows for years and it has become the scandel du jour. Independent…. I don’t think so. http://news.independent.co.uk/media/article332626.ece
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Of course the BBC does accept advertising, but in the style of many state sponsored organizations, they do it a way that is not very transparent. BBC has been accepting cash for product placements on their shows for years and it has become the scandel du jour. Independent…. I don’t think so. http://news.independent.co.uk/media/article332626.ece
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Sam – you didn’t at first say to Ben what you were really thinking! At the end of the evening, Ben walked up to you and asked if you two could have a chat after all your snidey comments and threats said to others had been mentioned to Ben.
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Sam – you didn’t at first say to Ben what you were really thinking! At the end of the evening, Ben walked up to you and asked if you two could have a chat after all your snidey comments and threats said to others had been mentioned to Ben.
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