The anti-marketing marketing

44 thoughts on “The anti-marketing marketing”

1. Nails it? A narrowly-targeted demographic, yet still missing the heavy main users, served a virtual faux community, with crappy video and horrible sound and petty Slashdot-like postings ahoy. With the posters lulled into a twilight-zone, believing their feedback actually means something. The “talk to Microsoft” con-game. But cutesy avatars. Wheeeeee.

   Great marketing doesn’t start with marketers OR anti-marketers, it STARTS with great products that morph into serious marketshare potential. Having the marketing at the start to make a better product, it the way it should go, instead of Marketing as a paint gloss after. Good products almost earn their own marketing…well almost, as even great products, like say Xbox 360, can be made a joke by a bad strategy.

   http://weblogs.asp.net/Jeff/archive/2004/04/06/108386.aspx

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2. Nails it? A narrowly-targeted demographic, yet still missing the heavy main users, served a virtual faux community, with crappy video and horrible sound and petty Slashdot-like postings ahoy. With the posters lulled into a twilight-zone, believing their feedback actually means something. The “talk to Microsoft” con-game. But cutesy avatars. Wheeeeee.

   Great marketing doesn’t start with marketers OR anti-marketers, it STARTS with great products that morph into serious marketshare potential. Having the marketing at the start to make a better product, it the way it should go, instead of Marketing as a paint gloss after. Good products almost earn their own marketing…well almost, as even great products, like say Xbox 360, can be made a joke by a bad strategy.

   http://weblogs.asp.net/Jeff/archive/2004/04/06/108386.aspx

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3. Arrgh, trigger happy commenting systems. Least it’s not Typepad. My kingdom for a DECENT blog commenting system. Some Web 2.0 cultist should work that into the mix.

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4. Arrgh, trigger happy commenting systems. Least it’s not Typepad. My kingdom for a DECENT blog commenting system. Some Web 2.0 cultist should work that into the mix.

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5. this is bullshyt, NON of the people I mention channel9 too don’t know what it is, I asked my programming teacher and he thought it was a regular channel.

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6. this is bullshyt, NON of the people I mention channel9 too don’t know what it is, I asked my programming teacher and he thought it was a regular channel.

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7. I’ll take this as an opportunity to say why I don’t visit Channel 9 any more: the videos are too long! Really, they used to be primarily 5-10 minute vids that I could catch between emails, but the last few times I’ve checked over the last month, they’ve primarily beenn 30 minute mini-epics. Just not enough organic bandwidth to keep up any more.

   And the EGA-era mascot needs some gradients…badly; He looks like he should be shilling GEOS instead of Vista.

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8. I’ll take this as an opportunity to say why I don’t visit Channel 9 any more: the videos are too long! Really, they used to be primarily 5-10 minute vids that I could catch between emails, but the last few times I’ve checked over the last month, they’ve primarily beenn 30 minute mini-epics. Just not enough organic bandwidth to keep up any more.

   And the EGA-era mascot needs some gradients…badly; He looks like he should be shilling GEOS instead of Vista.

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9. “Great marketing doesn’t start with marketers OR anti-marketers, it STARTS with great products that morph into serious marketshare potential.”

   McDonald’s sells more hamburgers than anybody else, but I can guarantee you it isn’t because they have the best hamburgers.

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10. “Great marketing doesn’t start with marketers OR anti-marketers, it STARTS with great products that morph into serious marketshare potential.”

    McDonald’s sells more hamburgers than anybody else, but I can guarantee you it isn’t because they have the best hamburgers.

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11. What a bunch of whiners.

    Channel 9 is a great attempt to put a human face on the Big Bad Microsoft that populates the nightmares of gear heads, Slashdotters and other assorted ne’er-do-wells. It’s entertaining, it’s informative and it doesn’t cost anything. Huzzah!

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12. What a bunch of whiners.

    Channel 9 is a great attempt to put a human face on the Big Bad Microsoft that populates the nightmares of gear heads, Slashdotters and other assorted ne’er-do-wells. It’s entertaining, it’s informative and it doesn’t cost anything. Huzzah!

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13. Are they’re any Fashion Blogs that appeal to the teenage girl?

    Hmmm… idea!

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14. Are they’re any Fashion Blogs that appeal to the teenage girl?

    Hmmm… idea!

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15. C9 doesnt cost anything? bandwidth,employees plus microsoft’s employees..without them Scoble wouldnt have anyone to interview.

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16. C9 doesnt cost anything? bandwidth,employees plus microsoft’s employees..without them Scoble wouldnt have anyone to interview.

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17. I think he means that it doesn’t cost us, the viewing public anything, which, because it is such an anomaly in the Internet that we should drop to our knees, kiss the ground, thank our generous host, and not complain or critique lest it be considered whining. Instead, we should all hug the nuts of those of a greater station.
    Seriously, though, it’s a great place to get some insight into the inner workings of MS and some of the growing pains various products undergo, but it isn’t perfect and has become less compelling (to me…maybe others) as it becomes “noisier”.

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18. I think he means that it doesn’t cost us, the viewing public anything, which, because it is such an anomaly in the Internet that we should drop to our knees, kiss the ground, thank our generous host, and not complain or critique lest it be considered whining. Instead, we should all hug the nuts of those of a greater station.
    Seriously, though, it’s a great place to get some insight into the inner workings of MS and some of the growing pains various products undergo, but it isn’t perfect and has become less compelling (to me…maybe others) as it becomes “noisier”.

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19. That’s sheer sophistry.

    Channel9 is marketing, plain and simple. It’s not “classic” TV or print marketing, but it’s certainly marketing.

    There’s a backlash against traditional marketing, in the software industry and also among bloggers. But doing the same thing under a different name is nothing but sophistry – and it’s also “branding” that type of marketing.

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20. That’s sheer sophistry.

    Channel9 is marketing, plain and simple. It’s not “classic” TV or print marketing, but it’s certainly marketing.

    There’s a backlash against traditional marketing, in the software industry and also among bloggers. But doing the same thing under a different name is nothing but sophistry – and it’s also “branding” that type of marketing.

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21. Best? Who ever said anything about BEST? Best is luxury, it’s the $10-15 burgers at some fancy place, it’s the burgers at Hamburger Mary’s or etc. Great is the Big Mac, slag it all you want, but that ‘hamburger’ is unique and is the #1 seller, so great products? Yes.

    When you can turn ‘great’ into commodity at an economic market-level, you win. As for example, the Town & Country, Malibu, Camry, Accord, Impala are all great products. Best? Hardly. But they sure outsell, those best-ended cars.

    Let me reread the statement. Great WITH serious marketshare potential, does not equal “best”. Best is but for the Palm Beachers, and all the new half-retired Microsoft zillionaires.

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22. Best? Who ever said anything about BEST? Best is luxury, it’s the $10-15 burgers at some fancy place, it’s the burgers at Hamburger Mary’s or etc. Great is the Big Mac, slag it all you want, but that ‘hamburger’ is unique and is the #1 seller, so great products? Yes.

    When you can turn ‘great’ into commodity at an economic market-level, you win. As for example, the Town & Country, Malibu, Camry, Accord, Impala are all great products. Best? Hardly. But they sure outsell, those best-ended cars.

    Let me reread the statement. Great WITH serious marketshare potential, does not equal “best”. Best is but for the Palm Beachers, and all the new half-retired Microsoft zillionaires.

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23. Scoble touched a nerve, eh? Anti-Microsoft vituperation is amazing, obviously worth thought, but something historians will analyze and understand better than us. Anyone enough of a historian to draw analogies with previous companies this successful and that drew this kind of hateful reaction from many people? What are MSFT’s approval ratings around the world? I doubt this list of comments represents the consensus. Which also begs the question – if people are this strongly negative about Channel9 and Microsoft, what are they doing reading and commenting on this blog? Given their feelings, it seems rather masochistic, lol.

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24. Scoble touched a nerve, eh? Anti-Microsoft vituperation is amazing, obviously worth thought, but something historians will analyze and understand better than us. Anyone enough of a historian to draw analogies with previous companies this successful and that drew this kind of hateful reaction from many people? What are MSFT’s approval ratings around the world? I doubt this list of comments represents the consensus. Which also begs the question – if people are this strongly negative about Channel9 and Microsoft, what are they doing reading and commenting on this blog? Given their feelings, it seems rather masochistic, lol.

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25. Jon: the Financial Times reported last month that Microsoft is the #1 most respected company in the world, as surveyed by its readers.

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26. Jon: the Financial Times reported last month that Microsoft is the #1 most respected company in the world, as surveyed by its readers.

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27. hmm..looks like they didn’t survey slashdot viewers 🙂

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28. hmm..looks like they didn’t survey slashdot viewers 🙂

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29. Oh brother…you know not the hidden print finer details of these “survey’s” eh? PricewaterhouseCoopers conducts these “polls” as a MARKETING PITCH. In other words, MFST has the most to gain from making PricewaterhouseCoopers a client, hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Geesh, be street smart for once. GE must have dropped the ball on PWC contracts. 😉

    Microsoft was also the top-ranked company for “shareholder value” and “innovation.” The company ranked fourth for best customer service — Toyota topped that list — and fifth for “best turnaround” in a ranking topped by Nissan.

    This is not reflected in the real world, more a recruiting pitch over anything, something for Heather to slag around. Shareholder VALUE? Since when? My charts show zero value movement. “Innovation?” Oh you mean copying everything Google does? Or bombing out royally where real innovation is. Or failing to market all that R&D? Best Customer Service? Tell that to my friend with a broken July-pre-ordered Xbox 360 that has been now told March/April. No CIO in the world likes Software Assurance, and what IT Admin likes the truckload of Security problems? Best turnaround? They must not be talking about Vista.

    The reason Microsoft gets so much bile, is that customers are arrogantly strong-armed, and really have no choice, no viable desktop competition, sorry Apple and Linux, you just don’t cut it. But Microsoft is not alone, the hate for other software companies like Compuware, CA, Oracle and etc. can fill landfills.

    But why stop there? Tons of other suck-up awards….

    http://www.microsoft.com/citizenship/awards/awardsreceived.mspx

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30. Oh brother…you know not the hidden print finer details of these “survey’s” eh? PricewaterhouseCoopers conducts these “polls” as a MARKETING PITCH. In other words, MFST has the most to gain from making PricewaterhouseCoopers a client, hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Geesh, be street smart for once. GE must have dropped the ball on PWC contracts. 😉

    Microsoft was also the top-ranked company for “shareholder value” and “innovation.” The company ranked fourth for best customer service — Toyota topped that list — and fifth for “best turnaround” in a ranking topped by Nissan.

    This is not reflected in the real world, more a recruiting pitch over anything, something for Heather to slag around. Shareholder VALUE? Since when? My charts show zero value movement. “Innovation?” Oh you mean copying everything Google does? Or bombing out royally where real innovation is. Or failing to market all that R&D? Best Customer Service? Tell that to my friend with a broken July-pre-ordered Xbox 360 that has been now told March/April. No CIO in the world likes Software Assurance, and what IT Admin likes the truckload of Security problems? Best turnaround? They must not be talking about Vista.

    The reason Microsoft gets so much bile, is that customers are arrogantly strong-armed, and really have no choice, no viable desktop competition, sorry Apple and Linux, you just don’t cut it. But Microsoft is not alone, the hate for other software companies like Compuware, CA, Oracle and etc. can fill landfills.

    But why stop there? Tons of other suck-up awards….

    http://www.microsoft.com/citizenship/awards/awardsreceived.mspx

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31. “Tell that to my friend with a broken July-pre-ordered Xbox 360 that has been now told March/April”

    I call BS. If his machine is broken, he can call the tech support line and he’ll have a new one in a week.

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32. “Tell that to my friend with a broken July-pre-ordered Xbox 360 that has been now told March/April”

    I call BS. If his machine is broken, he can call the tech support line and he’ll have a new one in a week.

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33. Grudgingly, I gotta agree with Chris on this one.

    Surveys which you are involved in commissioning or supporting look embarrassingly contrived when they show findings which favour you and when you actually overtly draw people’s attention to the favourable findings, you look as if you are depending upon all the readers being naive.

    It’s like the lottery organiser picking out the winning ticket and finding that it bears their name, and instead of tearing up the ticket, and picking again, they shout, “look, I’ve won, how extraordinary!”

    Never make a fuss of surveys which show your strengths, it’s someone else’s job to do that.

    And in the case of Microsoft, Scoble is only ‘someone else’ when he is criticising Microsoft more vehemently that any insider would be expected to do.

    Genuine humility and sincere and apt self-criticism is the new marketing and always has been.

    Self-praise is so not marketing 2.0, so not even marketing 1.1.

    When Scoble is criticising Microsoft so fiercely that Chris cheers him on, THAT is the new marketing.

    This doesn’t mean that you can’t say ‘I love Vista’, but when you do, expect that the audience that cheered when you were being brave starts to feel betrayed and starts singing “won’t get fooled again”.

    Detractors sufficiently disgruntled so as to be prepared to inhabit your blog comments are representative of an accumulation of bad experiences of Microsoft.

    You are not going to win them over with anything but a similar response to theirs in the face of other more recent bad experiences.

    It is for others to praise Microsoft.

    If all you ever did was talk about Microsoft shortcomings, I know your job would start to drift away from your cheerful, optimistic personality.

    Yes, people like Chris would become your supporter.

    But you’d feel duty-bound to be negative and this is just not the way you are.

    So is a mixture of self-criticism combined with self-praise the new marketing, or is self-criticism new and self-praise old?

    Should you mix the two, or do they cancel each other out?

    Should you have some marketers do each of these, but none do both?

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34. Grudgingly, I gotta agree with Chris on this one.

    Surveys which you are involved in commissioning or supporting look embarrassingly contrived when they show findings which favour you and when you actually overtly draw people’s attention to the favourable findings, you look as if you are depending upon all the readers being naive.

    It’s like the lottery organiser picking out the winning ticket and finding that it bears their name, and instead of tearing up the ticket, and picking again, they shout, “look, I’ve won, how extraordinary!”

    Never make a fuss of surveys which show your strengths, it’s someone else’s job to do that.

    And in the case of Microsoft, Scoble is only ‘someone else’ when he is criticising Microsoft more vehemently that any insider would be expected to do.

    Genuine humility and sincere and apt self-criticism is the new marketing and always has been.

    Self-praise is so not marketing 2.0, so not even marketing 1.1.

    When Scoble is criticising Microsoft so fiercely that Chris cheers him on, THAT is the new marketing.

    This doesn’t mean that you can’t say ‘I love Vista’, but when you do, expect that the audience that cheered when you were being brave starts to feel betrayed and starts singing “won’t get fooled again”.

    Detractors sufficiently disgruntled so as to be prepared to inhabit your blog comments are representative of an accumulation of bad experiences of Microsoft.

    You are not going to win them over with anything but a similar response to theirs in the face of other more recent bad experiences.

    It is for others to praise Microsoft.

    If all you ever did was talk about Microsoft shortcomings, I know your job would start to drift away from your cheerful, optimistic personality.

    Yes, people like Chris would become your supporter.

    But you’d feel duty-bound to be negative and this is just not the way you are.

    So is a mixture of self-criticism combined with self-praise the new marketing, or is self-criticism new and self-praise old?

    Should you mix the two, or do they cancel each other out?

    Should you have some marketers do each of these, but none do both?

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35. Jeremy, how much you want to wager on that? 🙂

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36. Jeremy, how much you want to wager on that? 🙂

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37. Micheal:

    I’m sorry if you think C9 is marketing, but when I can ask a question, that scoble remembers and asks a developer, and i get a response… on film… and i get to email that developer back and forth because now i know whose in charge of what… then it’s a fucking smash hit.

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38. Micheal:

    I’m sorry if you think C9 is marketing, but when I can ask a question, that scoble remembers and asks a developer, and i get a response… on film… and i get to email that developer back and forth because now i know whose in charge of what… then it’s a fucking smash hit.

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39. What the sociologists have to explain is why some people identify so closely with their… computer operating system.

    My theory on why people hate Big Daddy Bill Gates so much: it’s easier than hating your own father.

    Is that too Freudian?

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40. What the sociologists have to explain is why some people identify so closely with their… computer operating system.

    My theory on why people hate Big Daddy Bill Gates so much: it’s easier than hating your own father.

    Is that too Freudian?

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41. Why do people who drive all day care about their cars, why do people who work at an office care so much about their little cubbicle, why do people who play basketball care about the type of sneaker they wear?

    It’s all realitive. The people use the OS to run all there applications that helps them get past their day. God forbid computers wouldn’t have been invented I would be outside right now dying of skin cancer due to the sun!

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42. Why do people who drive all day care about their cars, why do people who work at an office care so much about their little cubbicle, why do people who play basketball care about the type of sneaker they wear?

    It’s all realitive. The people use the OS to run all there applications that helps them get past their day. God forbid computers wouldn’t have been invented I would be outside right now dying of skin cancer due to the sun!

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