Om wonders if Microsoft will kill Mac client of FolderShare

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Om Malik wonders if Microsoft will kill the Mac client of FolderShare. Hey, Om, if we do something stupid like that I’m gonna throw a chair.

I actually want to see MORE investment in the Mac space, not less. Why? Cause many of the influentials are using Macs (you only need to look around at a blog conference or an O’Reilly conference to see that’s true). Also, Apple’s market share is on the rise. Add those two together and we should be paying more attention, not less, to Mac users.

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Published by Robert Scoble

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70 thoughts on “Om wonders if Microsoft will kill Mac client of FolderShare”

  3. I’ve got to agree, the only thing that Microsoft currently ship on OSX (that is good) is Office. WMP has far too many bugs to be useful (and missing codecs) and Messenger is *still* so ‘un’-mac that it’s painful.

    Like

  4. I’ve got to agree, the only thing that Microsoft currently ship on OSX (that is good) is Office. WMP has far too many bugs to be useful (and missing codecs) and Messenger is *still* so ‘un’-mac that it’s painful.

    Like

  5. Glad to hear that you think the Mac is a viable platform. As a matter of fact, I think you would have a big decision to make if Apple made a tablet! My question, is however, why do we not see more investment from Microsoft in the Mac space? Are you the only one that feels like these users are important or is this just something that MS is working on behind the scenes that we will have to wait and see? Live.com does not seem like there is any focus in the Mac camp, at least not from the start of this project…I hope that changes!

    Like

  6. Glad to hear that you think the Mac is a viable platform. As a matter of fact, I think you would have a big decision to make if Apple made a tablet! My question, is however, why do we not see more investment from Microsoft in the Mac space? Are you the only one that feels like these users are important or is this just something that MS is working on behind the scenes that we will have to wait and see? Live.com does not seem like there is any focus in the Mac camp, at least not from the start of this project…I hope that changes!

    Like

  9. Ah, it’s like the old “If a tree falls in the forest” line:

    If Scoble throws a chair, does Microsoft Management give a shit?

    Like

  10. Ah, it’s like the old “If a tree falls in the forest” line:

    If Scoble throws a chair, does Microsoft Management give a shit?

    Like

  11. Brandon, it is a freaking web site after all. Maybe we need to talk to softies and remind them that the web is platform independent.

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  12. Brandon, it is a freaking web site after all. Maybe we need to talk to softies and remind them that the web is platform independent.

    Like

  17. Hey, if Microsoft supports Apple on this, does that mean they won’t try to undermine all the work Microsoft put into MacOffice/ie to keep that company afloat in the late 90’s – I mean, good grief, without the money Microsoft poared into Apple (around $100 Million) and the work done on Mac Office, would the company even exist today?

    Seems like Jobs has a real short memory about all that. Why does this always have to be about “Microsoft supports this, or I’ll throw a chair” – what does it get Microsoft at Apple – nothing – no one likes being rescued – it’s too embarrassing.

    Like

  18. Hey, if Microsoft supports Apple on this, does that mean they won’t try to undermine all the work Microsoft put into MacOffice/ie to keep that company afloat in the late 90’s – I mean, good grief, without the money Microsoft poared into Apple (around $100 Million) and the work done on Mac Office, would the company even exist today?

    Seems like Jobs has a real short memory about all that. Why does this always have to be about “Microsoft supports this, or I’ll throw a chair” – what does it get Microsoft at Apple – nothing – no one likes being rescued – it’s too embarrassing.

    Like

  19. Hey Sam, I thought that we were talking about web stuff (Windows Live). Do you want to tell me that it should be accessible only from Windows using IE?

    Like

  20. Hey Sam, I thought that we were talking about web stuff (Windows Live). Do you want to tell me that it should be accessible only from Windows using IE?

    Like

  21. Lots of stuff is only accessible from IE. Its a shame. Especially with IE being the quirkiest (buggiest) browser on the market and only available on Windows.

    I hope that will change.

    Also, why does MS need Apple? Somebody has to come up with the ideas for MS to build products. Apple has come up with more than most.

    Like

  22. Lots of stuff is only accessible from IE. Its a shame. Especially with IE being the quirkiest (buggiest) browser on the market and only available on Windows.

    I hope that will change.

    Also, why does MS need Apple? Somebody has to come up with the ideas for MS to build products. Apple has come up with more than most.

    Like

  25. Seems like Jobs has a real short memory about all that. Why does this always have to be about “Microsoft supports this, or I’ll throw a chair” – what does it get Microsoft at Apple – nothing – no one likes being rescued – it’s too embarrassing.

    How about “they got to make lots of money selling copies of Mac Office to Mac users”?

    And the fact is that Microsoft handsomely profited from their investment in Apple, because the share price was far higher when they sold than when they bought in.

    Look, the bottom line is money from a Mac user doesn’t spend any differently at the store than money from a Windows user. Microsoft likes getting money. Ergo, if there are more Mac users, you’ll see more Mac software from Microsoft, because they want that money.

    Now, part of the problem is that outside of the MacBU, Microsoft has next to no credibility with Mac users. The MSN for Mac software they came out with (that was baiscally a dumbed-down version of Entourage+the remnants of MacIE) ? Flop- it doesn’t even work any more. MSN Messenger? Still not doing video, which puts it WAY behind Yahoo, AIM and iChat (come FREAKIN’ on, it’s not THAT hard to port a video codec- Apple had to do the same thing with QuickTime on Windows, and they did that years ago). And let’s not even start on Windows Media Player, which is sucking serious wind.

    So it seems to me Brandon’s right in 3- it’s going to have to be the folks in MacBU who handle the Mac side of things, because they are the only folks who really have credibility in the Mac market.

    Like

  26. Seems like Jobs has a real short memory about all that. Why does this always have to be about “Microsoft supports this, or I’ll throw a chair” – what does it get Microsoft at Apple – nothing – no one likes being rescued – it’s too embarrassing.

    How about “they got to make lots of money selling copies of Mac Office to Mac users”?

    And the fact is that Microsoft handsomely profited from their investment in Apple, because the share price was far higher when they sold than when they bought in.

    Look, the bottom line is money from a Mac user doesn’t spend any differently at the store than money from a Windows user. Microsoft likes getting money. Ergo, if there are more Mac users, you’ll see more Mac software from Microsoft, because they want that money.

    Now, part of the problem is that outside of the MacBU, Microsoft has next to no credibility with Mac users. The MSN for Mac software they came out with (that was baiscally a dumbed-down version of Entourage+the remnants of MacIE) ? Flop- it doesn’t even work any more. MSN Messenger? Still not doing video, which puts it WAY behind Yahoo, AIM and iChat (come FREAKIN’ on, it’s not THAT hard to port a video codec- Apple had to do the same thing with QuickTime on Windows, and they did that years ago). And let’s not even start on Windows Media Player, which is sucking serious wind.

    So it seems to me Brandon’s right in 3- it’s going to have to be the folks in MacBU who handle the Mac side of things, because they are the only folks who really have credibility in the Mac market.

    Like

  27. Microsoft *should* support Mac, and should do it a lot better. They make more money from the Mac platform than they do from Linux, and more by percentage of user expenditure than many Windows sales (just far fewer of them).

    If by some miracle Windows marketshare did start to slide from its 94% dominance, it would be far more in Microsoft’s interest to have it slide towards the Mac – a platform for which they sell a lot of profitable copies of Office – than Linux, a platform they sell absolutely nothing for.

    And with the gross margins on software much higher (80-90%) than those on hardware (20-25%), if someone buys a low-end Mac + Office at the same time, Microsoft actually makes more on the sale than Apple. And more Apple sales would mean a proportionate increase in Office sales.

    Plus, silly personal rivalries aside, Microsoft has a lot to gain from Apple. Not just as a useful guide for OS enhancements but as credibility as a cross-platform solution provider. Apps that support the Mac tend to be favored over those that are tied solely to another OS. Companies don’t like to be locked down.

    In fact, they’d better start throwing bodies (and not chairs) at Mac support, because if Google’s efforts with OpenOffice.org gain traction in the Linux enterprise world, and they include an Aqua face for the Mac port, Office could lose a compelling argument: easy cross-platform computing.

    Like

  28. Microsoft *should* support Mac, and should do it a lot better. They make more money from the Mac platform than they do from Linux, and more by percentage of user expenditure than many Windows sales (just far fewer of them).

    If by some miracle Windows marketshare did start to slide from its 94% dominance, it would be far more in Microsoft’s interest to have it slide towards the Mac – a platform for which they sell a lot of profitable copies of Office – than Linux, a platform they sell absolutely nothing for.

    And with the gross margins on software much higher (80-90%) than those on hardware (20-25%), if someone buys a low-end Mac + Office at the same time, Microsoft actually makes more on the sale than Apple. And more Apple sales would mean a proportionate increase in Office sales.

    Plus, silly personal rivalries aside, Microsoft has a lot to gain from Apple. Not just as a useful guide for OS enhancements but as credibility as a cross-platform solution provider. Apps that support the Mac tend to be favored over those that are tied solely to another OS. Companies don’t like to be locked down.

    In fact, they’d better start throwing bodies (and not chairs) at Mac support, because if Google’s efforts with OpenOffice.org gain traction in the Linux enterprise world, and they include an Aqua face for the Mac port, Office could lose a compelling argument: easy cross-platform computing.

    Like

  37. “Hey, Om, if we do something stupid like that I’m gonna throw a chair.”

    Ask more questions, Robert.

    Your first step should be to learn more, were such a surprising choice to be made.

    Question your own authority. Try it, it’s good.

    Like

  38. “Hey, Om, if we do something stupid like that I’m gonna throw a chair.”

    Ask more questions, Robert.

    Your first step should be to learn more, were such a surprising choice to be made.

    Question your own authority. Try it, it’s good.

    Like

  39. No brandon, all windows live is right now is a website that only IE on Windows can use. Foldershare is at least marginally usable outside of windows, but until the Mac client shows back up and is actively supported, it’s primarily windows only.

    Note that when MS bought GFI, what did they do? Killed all the non-Windows versions. So it’s not like they have a lot of good history here. Implying the MacBU should do the Mac client only works if the MacBU will get the resources to do it. Considering how small they are, the work they do now is astounding. They’re one of the few teams at MS that can do that kind of work, ship regularly, and not require the population of a mid-sized city.

    at some point, someone needs to either knife WiMP Mac, or give the MacBU the resources to do it right, because god knows the WM team can’t write good Mac code with a gun at their head.

    Like

  40. No brandon, all windows live is right now is a website that only IE on Windows can use. Foldershare is at least marginally usable outside of windows, but until the Mac client shows back up and is actively supported, it’s primarily windows only.

    Note that when MS bought GFI, what did they do? Killed all the non-Windows versions. So it’s not like they have a lot of good history here. Implying the MacBU should do the Mac client only works if the MacBU will get the resources to do it. Considering how small they are, the work they do now is astounding. They’re one of the few teams at MS that can do that kind of work, ship regularly, and not require the population of a mid-sized city.

    at some point, someone needs to either knife WiMP Mac, or give the MacBU the resources to do it right, because god knows the WM team can’t write good Mac code with a gun at their head.

    Like

  41. Well, that’s the point behind the MacBU selling copies of Office- they can go up to Bill at the next executive review and say “We increased our numbers, please give us some budget for headcount so we can do these cool projects.” I know this is going to be hard for people to believe, but that’s largely how it works at Microsoft.

    Foldershare for the Mac would work VERY nicely with Mac Office. This is something on the order of a no-brainer to add in- especially when you consider the work in Entourage 2004 for projects, and you figure they’ll need to do more for v.Next (I guess it’s Office 12).

    Like

  42. Well, that’s the point behind the MacBU selling copies of Office- they can go up to Bill at the next executive review and say “We increased our numbers, please give us some budget for headcount so we can do these cool projects.” I know this is going to be hard for people to believe, but that’s largely how it works at Microsoft.

    Foldershare for the Mac would work VERY nicely with Mac Office. This is something on the order of a no-brainer to add in- especially when you consider the work in Entourage 2004 for projects, and you figure they’ll need to do more for v.Next (I guess it’s Office 12).

    Like

  43. Sam,

    You probably think it’s reasonable to ask “what does Microsoft get from Apple”?

    Well, let me give you a little clue: When MS does something stupid and unsupported and gets away with it for a while, but it breaks on a new version of OS X, Apple puts workarounds in their own code, to accommodate MS’s brain damage.

    John,

    A quibble: there is no such thing as a web page that only IE can use. If it doesn’t work with Lynx, it’s not a *web* page, it’s a MS Internet Exploder page.

    Like

  44. Sam,

    You probably think it’s reasonable to ask “what does Microsoft get from Apple”?

    Well, let me give you a little clue: When MS does something stupid and unsupported and gets away with it for a while, but it breaks on a new version of OS X, Apple puts workarounds in their own code, to accommodate MS’s brain damage.

    John,

    A quibble: there is no such thing as a web page that only IE can use. If it doesn’t work with Lynx, it’s not a *web* page, it’s a MS Internet Exploder page.

    Like

  45. a web site is html on http protocol. nothing else. they cannot be “a website for ie only”.
    it’s a “microsoft internet explorer application”. a new nightmare.

    Like

  46. a web site is html on http protocol. nothing else. they cannot be “a website for ie only”.
    it’s a “microsoft internet explorer application”. a new nightmare.

    Like

  47. What if Jobs brought out MacOSX for Intel on a wider basis? What if every PC can upgrade to MacOS by just downloading some bits – e voila: after the reboot it’s MacOS.

    That would hurt Microsoft the most if it happened beginning 2006, 11 months ahead of Vista.

    Like

  48. What if Jobs brought out MacOSX for Intel on a wider basis? What if every PC can upgrade to MacOS by just downloading some bits – e voila: after the reboot it’s MacOS.

    That would hurt Microsoft the most if it happened beginning 2006, 11 months ahead of Vista.

    Like

  49. Well, let me give you a little clue: When MS does something stupid and unsupported and gets away with it for a while, but it breaks on a new version of OS X, Apple puts workarounds in their own code, to accommodate MS’s brain damage.

    Having worked for several years at MS on software for the Mac platform, I call Pot/Kettle/Bitch on that post.

    Apple’s pulled all kinds of stupid shit we’ve worked around (I’ve helped test “bugfixes” we made because Apple funkiness with Open Transport revisions and MTUs, and Apple was notorious for not adequately testing their own app compatibility with proxy servers. For a while, we wondered if they could EVER do DHCP right.). We have a number of bugs in Radar that we’ve filed. Welcome to the wonderful world of software development. This stuff is hard, and it ain’t easy.

    Oh, and then there’s the Wonderful World of Changing Developer APIs. Use AIAT as the system API for Search. No, SearchKit. Oh, my bad, we meant Spotlight. Oh, by the way, you have to change compilers in the middle of your development cycle because we’re going to Intel. BOHICA, FOAD and HAND!

    Sometimes, I’m convinced being a developer for Apple is like dating a girlfriend who’s great in bed and looks like a movie star, but regularly demonstrates how high-maintenance she is by jerking your chain. You never know when the rules are going to change…

    Like

  50. Well, let me give you a little clue: When MS does something stupid and unsupported and gets away with it for a while, but it breaks on a new version of OS X, Apple puts workarounds in their own code, to accommodate MS’s brain damage.

    Having worked for several years at MS on software for the Mac platform, I call Pot/Kettle/Bitch on that post.

    Apple’s pulled all kinds of stupid shit we’ve worked around (I’ve helped test “bugfixes” we made because Apple funkiness with Open Transport revisions and MTUs, and Apple was notorious for not adequately testing their own app compatibility with proxy servers. For a while, we wondered if they could EVER do DHCP right.). We have a number of bugs in Radar that we’ve filed. Welcome to the wonderful world of software development. This stuff is hard, and it ain’t easy.

    Oh, and then there’s the Wonderful World of Changing Developer APIs. Use AIAT as the system API for Search. No, SearchKit. Oh, my bad, we meant Spotlight. Oh, by the way, you have to change compilers in the middle of your development cycle because we’re going to Intel. BOHICA, FOAD and HAND!

    Sometimes, I’m convinced being a developer for Apple is like dating a girlfriend who’s great in bed and looks like a movie star, but regularly demonstrates how high-maintenance she is by jerking your chain. You never know when the rules are going to change…

    Like

  51. @eponymous coward: what do you mean by changing compilers in the middle of your development cycle? Apple has been advocating its own developer tools, gcc and MachO binaries for years as the preferred solution for OS X.

    Those who followed that path basically did nothing but a recompile and they were ready for Intel. Firefox is such an example, every Cocoa app is such an example. Firefox is cross platform – no problem for them. The Mac version of Office shares 75% of its source code with the Windows version according to Kevin Browne (this statement is from the v.X days but I highly doubt that this has changed a lot since then.

    In the end. Apple’s Intel switch and the demise of Code Warrior were just the final enforcements of gcc and XCode, but it was possible long before that announcement – and that has been the right path for future developments for YEARS. This was predictable, sorry. No prize for that argument.

    Like

  52. @eponymous coward: what do you mean by changing compilers in the middle of your development cycle? Apple has been advocating its own developer tools, gcc and MachO binaries for years as the preferred solution for OS X.

    Those who followed that path basically did nothing but a recompile and they were ready for Intel. Firefox is such an example, every Cocoa app is such an example. Firefox is cross platform – no problem for them. The Mac version of Office shares 75% of its source code with the Windows version according to Kevin Browne (this statement is from the v.X days but I highly doubt that this has changed a lot since then.

    In the end. Apple’s Intel switch and the demise of Code Warrior were just the final enforcements of gcc and XCode, but it was possible long before that announcement – and that has been the right path for future developments for YEARS. This was predictable, sorry. No prize for that argument.

    Like

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  61. “Hey, Om, if we do something stupid like that I’m gonna throw a chair.”

    Throw away. Right now, PCs are fine, but Macs have stopped working, and it’s been that way for the last 24 hours.

    Good idea to leave MS, dude.

    Like

  62. “Hey, Om, if we do something stupid like that I’m gonna throw a chair.”

    Throw away. Right now, PCs are fine, but Macs have stopped working, and it’s been that way for the last 24 hours.

    Good idea to leave MS, dude.

    Like

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